Home General Hunting

Okay... what am I missing... this sounds WAY to simple to be safe / possible

Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
Still trying to justify buying a crossbow when there's nothing wrong with my vert bow.

I'm thinking about the gator hunting this year, and next if I get drawn.

So... online I see these fiberglass "gator bolts" and line retrivers that mount underneath your cross bow. The line attaches at the front of the arrow out by the stirrup, and then the line coils into the mickey-mouse plastic container and sorry little crank device... the standard AMS bow fishing type set up.

My question... and I MUST be missing something.

What's to stop me from buying one of those bolts and instead of spendin $250 on the AMS Gator gear deal, just attach it to some super heavy power pro that's wound super super tight on a super full heavy duty spinning real with the bail open. Obviously lots of attention needs to be paid here, but one person on the cross bow, the other off to his side and slightly behind him pointing the rod in same direction as the stock of the crossbow. Maybe have the tip just forwrd of the stirrup.

Sounds pretty dicy, I AGREE, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Then you have your first line in the gator and attached to a real rod and reel, not a zebco underneath your cross bow.

Of course, a finger in the wrong place could get real ugly, and i imagine the line coming off the reel that quickly is going to put a LOT of friction on your guides, thereby singnifcantly affecting the distance of the shot. On the AMS deal, the line only touches the one opening on that canister.

What if we cut the rod down so that it has just one guide about 2' forward of the reel, and the rod ends there. We have lost shock absroption / pumping action during the fight, adn now have the gator on a broomstick, but that's still better than a zebco and a giaint bubble cork underneath the bow.

Help me before I hurt myself.
"Whatcha doin' in my waters?"

Replies

  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    Okay...

    I'm really starting to NOT like this idea.

    Tip of rod (however long the rod is) has got to be near where the bolt leaves the bow.

    Limbs come forward, so rod can't be there... for one.

    So now rod is at an angle in order to make way for the limbs. That arrow is going to be coming out of there so fast, there is no way line can come off that small spool of reel quickly enough to prevent something from going wrong.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    "Hey y'all... watch this!"
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • Backlash BanditBacklash Bandit Posts: 61 Deckhand
    "What if we cut the rod down so that it has just one guide about 2' forward of the reel, and the rod ends there"

    Thats exactly what weve done before! not gonna lie it does seem sketchy but it worked with no problems this was shooting out of a compound bow though at gar right in front of the boat not at any long distances

    Hey Vern! hold my beer......haha
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    Your screen name definitely fits that operation.

    What kind of bow and bolt were you shooting?

    I'd like to be able to reach out and touch a gator at 10-12 yards. The ones that are just too far to harpoon effectively. Snatch hooks are no good where I am because there is so much weed... and when there's not weed, it's in little feeder creeks and there are stumps everywhere. Lots of gators though.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • reelpleasurereelpleasure Posts: 754 Officer
    I got my first gator using that same rig. The downsides are, you can't use a heavy line, maybe 50# powerpro max, and it is a 2 man operation. PS don't forget to push the button. With the AMS you can use 400# line, and shoot by yourself. I finally bite the bullet last Year and bought mine. I also got the float attachment, and it is sweet.
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    10-4 on the two man deal. Pretty sure I have figured out a way to do it safely from the crossbow with heavy line on the cheap and it will end up on a full length rod... Won't even have to be a spin rod. With a rod holder handy it can be a one man show, too.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • HaliaetusHaliaetus Posts: 19 Greenhorn
    [QUOTE= Pretty sure I have figured out a way to do it safely from the crossbow with heavy line on the cheap and it will end up on a full length rod... Won't even have to be a spin rod. With a rod holder handy it can be a one man show, too.[/QUOTE]

    Interesting... I'm curious to hear about what you have in mind.

    I kind of like the spinning reel idea, but you're right...it could be a bit sketchy. Not sure if I'd want to be the one holding the rod. Not the first time, at least. I think a bail-less spinning reel with a large diameter spool (like my Penn 706) would be a good choice. Line would fly off it pretty easily and there would be one less moving part that might fail.
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    Bail or no bail, spin reel too small.

    I found a bracket online that mounds underneath the cross bow. It holds a lipless (on forward side) spool. Big spool... like 10"

    Keep in mind, the bigger the stack of line, the less friction that will be created coming off.

    ANyway, I can make the bracket. Hvae the spool angled upward just a couple degrees so the axel of the spool matches the trajectory of the arrow.

    Use say 130 lb or so braid. Maybe a 150 yard shot. Penn gets 200 yards of filler mono, then the braid... maybe 100 yards of it. Bail is open. Braid goes through ever eye. Braid goes to that spool underneath the cross bow. Then the last 50 goes on that big ol' spool that will readily give wraps off as the bow fires.

    Gator shot at 10 - 15 yards. 30 yards left on spool. Let gator go down. PUll the remaining braid off by hand. Guy on rod cranks, and now you have a break away gator bolt in a gator, attache dto 130lb power pro, on a real rod.

    Doesn't even have to be a spinning rod. Could be a reel with a little more torque if you want.

    Anyway, the most expensive part of the deal here would be the PP.

    Other option would be to tie a float to end of power pro at step one instead of a rod. I like rod better. WIth the float, now you're pulling nasty PP by hand and you have coiled line on deck. NOt good.

    Ease the sucker up with nice rod, then harpoon the son of a gun.

    Just a thought.

    EDIT: Would work very well if your sucessful, I think. If you whif... it will take a little while to put all that braid back on the big spool by hand. Will be very important that it is on there tight and neatly.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • bswivbswiv Posts: 7,878 Admiral
    Forgive me for being dumb but if you already have a hook in him why not just go with the harpoon?

    This looks like a fun way to do it............. http://www.thunderbirdatlatl.com/atlatlhuntfish/atlatlhuntfish.html
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    I'm talking use a crossbow to put the very first line in him if he's at 10-15 yards. Inside 10 I'll try harpoon first. Can't really snag them with rod where I am.

    About to buy a cross bow.

    Goals:

    1. Outfit crossbow on the cheap... bascially line that attatches to the bolt

    2. Have line where after bow is shot, it automatically ends up on a rod with a real reel on it.

    Reason for number 2... I have no incling to mess with a gator with a dippy little reel on the cross bow, and the idea of handlining braided line and putting coils of it on deck does not sound great.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • HaliaetusHaliaetus Posts: 19 Greenhorn
    Sounds like a good idea. It'll be interesting to see how well it works. I think you're right...the first shot will have to be a good one, or it'll be a minute or 2 before you're ready to go again.

    So you're definitely getting an x bow?
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    First attempt needs to a good one no matter what... harpoon, snatch hook or arrow, right?

    Definitely getting one? Just about.

    I know for a fact that the Excalibur Axiom is what I want. I just want to make sure that I can economically outfit it for gators, which is about 75% of the reason I want one. Will also do some deer hunting with it of course.

    EDIT: I think sometihng like this images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNL9DK6vKR8L10qiPz-dHZ-PIW33UiBVuWe6v8mWZVPn1z2WGb mounted forward on the bow and below the bolt would work well. Loose end will attach directly to the break-a-way tip. Rod and bow are one unit... maybe 10' of slack between the two, but arrow is tied to line that goes directly on reel.

    Right now I'm trying to make sure that there is some sort of threaded receiver forward on the Excal Axium. I can't find an image on line that shows the underside of this bow. I know that it comes with a quiver, but I don't know if it attaches by some sort of proprietary quick release deal, or if there are just plain old 1/4" standard thread accesory hole(s) up front for sling, light, bi-pod, etc. A simple piece of metal bracket would be all it takes to put the spool on there and we're done. Could also skip the rod route, and have end of line attached to float that's loose on deck. Would need to find a spool that would work, but the only thing I'd need after that is a piece of metal, some space washers, two or three bolts, a nut or two, and the gator arrows.

    No idea why anybody would drop $200 or more on one of those kits.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • flydownflydown Posts: 6,464 Admiral
    Maybe I'm crazy, but why don't you jettison the crossbow idea and just use a heavy duty spinning rod and snatch them with a treble hook?
    I know guys who gator hunt this way and have great success.
    DYING for me was the most HE could do. LIVING for HIM is the least I can do
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    Just remembered something that I saw at the Jax Boat show a few years back. He're a youtube video of it in action out of NJ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6tB0R0XY0k&feature=fvwrel

    I'm not sure that you couldn't shoot directly off spinning reel. Only issue is having the rod inline with the tractory of arrow (like the rod is in line with the barrel of this pneumatic launcher in the video).

    Would have to be less ressitance coming off a larger spool too (like the green one pictured above) and I feel like less of a chance of something going wrong with the spool route THEN onto the rod / reel.

    I need to some physics nerd to tell me how much pressure a 450 grain arrow traveling at let's say 200 fps (which is way lower than it would be at immediate release) would put on a tight line. Should something go bad wrong, I'd want the line to break. Would hate to tear up bow, have bow snatched out of hand, have arrow come back, etc.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    flydown wrote: »
    Maybe I'm crazy, but why don't you jettison the crossbow idea and just use a heavy duty spinning rod and snatch them with a treble hook?
    I know guys who gator hunt this way and have great success.

    For one - I'm trying to come up with as many ways as possible to justify buying a crossbow when in fact I really don't need one. My bow is just fine.

    For two - We tried the trebble hook method last year with very little luck. Lots and lots of weeds on bottom. When the gators aren't in weey areas, they are up near banks with lots of submerged and partially submerged roots, downed timber, etc. Snatch hooks weren't very helpful in those conditions.

    Going to use a guide Aug 19th and we'll be in the same vicinity / environment that this year that I was in last year. He said that for that area, he only uses crossbow for the first line.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 265 Deckhand
    I too plan on using a crossbow this year to get the first line in the gator. Using the harpoon was difficult due to a bad throwing shoulder, growing old is a ****. But my plan is pretty simple, use 10-15 yards of the 600 lb gator cord attached to the point, run it thru a hole in the bottom of the bolt, then attach to a floating gig. I've practiced shooting like this in my back yard and it's pretty accurate at that distance. My crossbow is the Barnett Wildcat C5, and I did take the scope off as I don't think it will work too good at night with minimal lighting.
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    I don't know if I want my line attached to the back of the bolt. I'd rather battle a little bit of lost accuracy than risk that line being that far back and behind so much stuff before the shot. You might be right, and I might change my mind once I find an appropriate spool and build a bracket for it. Right now the Distance A bothers me... just seems like a much greater opportunity for something to go wrong that way.

    crossbowsetup.jpg?t=1312223519

    Distance B will mean the amount of loose line is limited to the disctance from the spool, to the front of the stirrup and then back a few inches.

    Of couse I'd like to do it your way, because the arrow is going to fly better. I just need to get the everything in front of me and see what looks the safest.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • flydownflydown Posts: 6,464 Admiral
    Why do the words, "Hold my beer and watch this" come to mind when I imagine this Crossdressedgatorsticker in action...?

    Just kidding, but I do like the idea of a float rig better than this. There just seems to be too many pieces that could **** up the deal.
    Float rigs are pretty simple from what I've seen.

    And just think of the great quotes you can draw from when using one. "Two Barrels! He can't sound with two barrels on him!"
    "We're going in Brody." "Thank Christ!"
    DYING for me was the most HE could do. LIVING for HIM is the least I can do
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    What do you mean by float rig?

    Same thing as above, but a float instead of a rod?

    I don't see how that would be any different. At the end of the line that comes off the spool there is a rod and reel instead of a float. rather than picking up a float and pulling it in by hand with line on the deck, I'll work off the reel.

    Maybe I'm missing something.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • Backlash BanditBacklash Bandit Posts: 61 Deckhand
    We were shooting my martin wildcat with GT 5575 arrows that had broke tips. i used wire and super glued them on the ends to make 4 barbs then glued a field tip on top. we had a little spinning reel tied the power pro to the front of the arrows and also rubber banded the knot to keep it from sliding down the arrow. keep the bail open and let it fly! It was basically your "B" setup minus the 2nd spool under the crossbow which doenst really seem to necessary. cost of ghetto bow fishing setup...0.00$ haha
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 8,339 Moderator
    I think the spool underneath the bow is probably a little bit safer and definitely less likely to tear up a rod, bow, both or loose an arrow. Having face of spool facing path of arrow 100% of the time and being 100% hands free has got to be a good thing.

    Also, a large diameter spool like that will have to feed line more readily. Less wraps that have to come off mean greater free flow of line. Also, the bigger the wraps the slower they come off the spool which means the a decreased liklihood of one wrap grabbing a 2nd, 3rd, or worse and bringing it along for the ride... ie: wind knot.

    We'll see!
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
Sign In or Register to comment.