HERDING CATS

Captain Ozzie said it. I agree that the subjects in Captain Scott's original thread were too varied and jumbled. Maybe we should deal with one cat at a time. Here's one: Why does the PTTS mandate the use of circle hooks, when the state does not? I'd have a hard time believing that the intent is to avoid gut-hooking tarpon. It seems more likely that it's to avoid the spectacle of tarpon coming to the surface bearing hooks in body parts other than the face (bloody gills come to mind). That certainly wouldn':huht make for very good TV. If the Tarpon ARE actually eating the jig, it really wouldn't matter what kind of hooks they had INSIDE their mouths. The only reason I can think of to prohibit J hooks is that they may be better at snagging the fish. But what do I know?

Replies

  • Capt. Scott HughesCapt. Scott Hughes Posts: 317 Officer
    Why does the PTTS mandate the use of circle hooks, when the state does not? I'd have a hard time believing that the intent is to avoid gut-hooking tarpon. It seems more likely that it's to avoid the spectacle of tarpon coming to the surface bearing hooks in body parts other than the face (bloody gills come to mind).

    I wonder how long it take for someone to come up with a good answer for this question? Looks like the first cat might be in the corral.
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    Why do they require circle hooks in almost all billfish tournaments. Keep hearding:) the big tournament they just had in Biloxi. My buddy Bill Platt won wahoo div last year and 2nd this year. He said this year circle hooks only. Maybe they require circle hooks because it's the right thing to do. Like I said. It's like hearding cats. There's always two ways at looking at things
  • CF47CF47 Posts: 107 Officer
    Not sure about the billfish tournaments, but have caught many sailfish on the East Coast and in the Keys. Those caught on artificials with J hooks=no problems; Those caught on rigged natural bait or live bait=many were gut hooked. Maybe this is why. I agree that it is the right thing to do when gut hooking fish is a possibilty or a probability, but when it isn't???
  • Capt. Scott HughesCapt. Scott Hughes Posts: 317 Officer
    Ozzie,

    From what I understand billfish tend to get gut hooked alot and that is why the tournaments use nonoffset circles. Tarpon from my experience, cut baiting for tarpon has the most chance of gut hooking a tarpon. I have NEVER heard of tarpon gut hooked using a jig in Boca Grande Pass. Heck, we are mostly arguing whether the hook is anywhere near the mouth let alone the throat.

    Its a really far stretch to compare a billfish tournament to a jigging in Boca Grande Pass.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 12,944 AG
    I would guess, and it's only a guess, the requirement for circle hooks by the PTTS was to short-circuit snagging allegations.
  • Capt. Scott HughesCapt. Scott Hughes Posts: 317 Officer
    allegations

    That's funny. If the tarpon really eat the jig then the j hooks would be in their mouth or in their throat. If you think that the jig works good with a circle hook, you should try a j hook. Its a professional scale remover. The best arguement against j hooks is that it makes the jig "too effective to be legal". Even a novice like I was in 1995 can snag a tarpon in the eye with a j hook.
  • whitebaconwhitebacon Posts: 354 Officer
    It's just sad and unreal that people don't believe tarpons bite jigs. Heck I catch ten or twelve tarpons in my cape haze canal every morning on jigs. Tarpon are born with the mentality to eat a jig in BGP, it's in their DNA. Tarpon are so stupid, they suck down a jig every chance they get. Tarpon's suck jigs. Just ask the professional gudies.
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    Here's something to think about. If I could travel the world to fish and I was only allowed to bring one lure it would be a jig. Now would you go any where and use Dacron line to fish with? So if they'll eat a bait with a guide using Dacron line in Boca, why wouldn't they eat a jig. Scott these cats are running everywhere.
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    Ozzie,
    Would you use a jig with the hook atratched to the top of the jig head or would you use a normal style jig
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    Um if I was in Venice, la. I would. You forget when we use to jig fish in pass years ago it was a normall jig. The throw jig came about because it was tough to keep them on hook, because of all the lead pulling on hook. You keep thinking your all that cause you fish up on hill with thirty other boats casting to a couple pods of fish. You want to argue everything I say. So I'll just go with what you say with all your vast knowledge of tarpon fishing.
  • beargonefishinbeargonefishin Posts: 64 Deckhand
    Here's something to think about. If I could travel the world to fish and I was only allowed to bring one lure it would be a jig. Now would you go any where and use Dacron line to fish with? So if they'll eat a bait with a guide using Dacron line in Boca, why wouldn't they eat a jig. Scott these cats are running everywhere.

    Your line doesnt have to be invisible when there is something on the end of your leader that they actually bite.

    And if you took a bg pass jig as your only bait to fish the world, you'd starve.
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    Your line doesnt have to be invisible when there is something on the end of your leader that they actually bite.

    And if you took a bg pass jig as your only bait
    to fish the world, you'd starve.
    Haha. I think the **** pop is cast or trolled through pods of tarpon. Thank god the **** pop hasn't caught on over here yet. I wasn't arguing with you ozzie, just wanted some clarification.
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    Really, that must be why I've caught gag, red grouper, cobia, kingfish, and a couple giant black drum on them, while jig fishing Boca. So your telling me you don't think you could go offshore and catch red grouper and red snapper on them. Got a grand you care to wager on that? Go show up with Dacron line on your fishing pole to go out with a guide and see how he look at you. I do use Dacron, except it's on my kite rod.
  • Capt. Scott HughesCapt. Scott Hughes Posts: 317 Officer
    Ozzie,

    To be fair you can't compare grouper to tarpon. Are your saying that your can catch more grouper on a BGP tapon jig than on live bait? I'll answer my own question. You can't.
  • Capt. Scott HughesCapt. Scott Hughes Posts: 317 Officer
    I have also caught a few grouper on the BGP tarpon jig. A few means a "few" per season. All, meaning 100%, of the grouper were hooked inside the mouth with the circle hook. All, meaning 100%, of the tarpon were hooked outide the mouth or not in the mouth at all.
  • Capt. Scott HughesCapt. Scott Hughes Posts: 317 Officer
    Also, you say that a tradition jig with the hook behind the weight tends to throw when the tarpon jumps. Well maybe that is because it was actually in the tarpons mouth. Also if the BGP tarpon jig was inside the tarpons mouth wouldn't it also be thrown just as much since break away lead is illegal? Or does leading with the hook have some other advantage? maybe sticking the tarpon somewhere other than inside mouth?
  • CF47CF47 Posts: 107 Officer
    I'll chime in here. I catch quite a few tarpon in the summer using jigs of various sizes and shapes. All these jigs have hooks molded into the lead. Funny thing, the tarpon are almost always hooked in the button, the clipper(top portion, hook inside out), or inside the roof of the mouth where the hook manages to scrape enough soft tissue to hold. Occasionally, and that means very ocasionally, the hook is in the soft tissue posterior to the clipper. This indicates to me that when tarpon actually eat a jig, they are more often than not hooked inside the mouth. That they are more often than not hooked outside the mouth by the BGP jig indicates that they are not actually eating the jig. Just some observations. I think they would be more than consistent with the observations of others.
  • Capt. Scott HughesCapt. Scott Hughes Posts: 317 Officer
    Ozzie,

    I know you are an excellent guide and true professional. One of the guys who are unselfish and displays etiquette on the water. I do have an honest question for you.

    Why do you think that the tarpon in BG Pass prefer the BG tarpon jig over live bait? The other species that you say that you have caught (grouper, kingfish and drum) on the BG tarpon jig all are mostly caught on live bait. Are the tarpon dumber than those other fish? Tarpon sure aren't dumb anywhere else other than Boca Grande during the AM hours.
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    My point was this if all these other fish moving threw boca eat our jigs, then why wouldn't the tarpon. Especially 20,000 of them in there at one time. The only reason I mentioned grouper and snapper is someone on here said I would starve if all I had to use was the break away jig. Scott I think they eat them you dont. It doesn't matter what I say. Like I keep saying. Go take just a weight and circle hook and go to work. Put it on video. You be a hero in the boca grand community. Why hasn't someone done this yet. Either there to stupid to not of thought of this or maybe deep down they know tarpon eat these jigs. They have every other propaganda video out. How come not one of going out and trying to get them like I said. Something to think about.
  • CF47CF47 Posts: 107 Officer
    Quit leading with the hook, and your argument might sound better. There's really no reason now to lead with the hook since breakaway rigging is now unnecesssary, unless it's necessarily better at foul-hooking. Going fishing now, everyone do likewise.
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