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SALTWATER CLASSIC RESULTS AND STORIES HERE

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  • saltwater classicsaltwater classic Posts: 14 Greenhorn
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Well, I have absolutely no skin in the game....didn't fish it....and probably never will.

    BUT

    You have been given a pretty clear idea of what the actual fisherman see as a need.

    Regardless of who the "conservationists" are...or even the "big name" of Guy Harvey....by not acting on the treble hook rule you are tassidly approving people violating the rule...since the guys who do it alot...told you how "that game gets done" and you KNOW that it will be unenforceable.

    There is a big difference in excluding a specie of fish....and having a rule that you can reasonably be sure will get violated.

    To knuckle under to "pressure".... is what is most wrong in almost every sector of life in America today...

    Don't know if you have a boss or have employees but if you don't knuckle under the pressure of your boss or if your employees don't follow your instructions there are consequences. In essence our sponsors are OUR bosses, they write the checks therefore they can dictate what the terms are. Of course we can reject thier proposals and face the consequences. It's happened and we have had to deal with losing a sponsor over it in the past.

    Rules in the tournament are like laws in our society, we all know the majority follow them. If you choose to break the law or buck the rules you may or may not get caught and then have to face the consequences.

    We cannot possibly police every single rule at all times of the tournament, as I have mentioned several times, we have to at some point rely on ''human nature'' that people won't cheat to try to get ahead. If people are no longer comfortable fishing our tournament with the rules we have in place then that will be the final judgement of the success or failure of the event.

    99% of the people that approach me during the event have nothing but compliments about it. We try to placate the other 1% but cannot always acomplish this either. This is why we will never charge an entry fee. Once you take money from someone in the form of an entry fee it changes the whole dynamic. This is why you rarely see a Port tournament with more than a 100 or 150 entries.

    Our format has a proven track record, it's not perfect but it works. Try it someday you may find you like it.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,246 AG
    I think you missed my point...
    This is not about "placating" anyone....The guys who are serious Kingfisherman told you...and it is common knowledge that a standard live bait King rig uses a small treble stinger...This is no insider secret.

    And you are correct...you are not charging entry...and it is your tourney to run as you see fit..
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • wreckreationwreckreation Posts: 1 Greenhorn
    I heard they forfitted the winnings for the 50 mile rule. honest mistake and good sportsmanship
  • marineguy1marineguy1 Posts: 4 Greenhorn
    Usually, I would not weigh in deeper but I really have some significant experience with this exact treble-hook issue as I played (revised and tweaked) the FSFA and Cal Dixon rules for years front and center to get the best mix (and a reduced amount of over-all complaints) after each event as a Director, committee staff member, weigh-in announcer plus authored the FSFA Tournament Directors guide let's just say I'm experienced organizationally as a volunteer with perhaps 30 events since the late 80's up to perhaps 2002. We debated the treble hook issue for four years and changed it......it was a good idea in hindsight! I know the politics and problems and we always held a lessons learned follow-up meeting a few weeks later. Saturday was the first time I have fished your event because I generally now prefer not-for-profit events that support our community. My choice..no judgements. Your not the only self-serving event out there. I directly polygraphed the owner of Sunrise Marina and many other winnners in the early 90's to ensure rules compliance not because we doubted their honesty but because it is good policy and politics to demonstrate enforcing your rules. We used a Torey meter and common sense not FMP officers to determine fish freshness. Why have a rule if your not going to enforce it? Your reasoning is pretty weak to support keeping in the treble hook rule by throwing it back to "sponsor demands" and "conservation". Your a radio station ...not a voice for conservation. In general...you have a good event but it can be better and very much safer. That would appeal to everyone, draw even more participation and that would align with your overall strategic goal of why you hold this event.... per your explanation. Guy Harvey has no beef with the SKA format as I currently have one of his high dollar awards from winning an early 90's SKA event lighting my office. He helped get the SKA off the ground with his support. Most every tournament run out of Canaveral over past 25-years has used the FSFA format as a starting point because they (and CFOA) have 40-plus years running these events. The only reason you are bigger now is because it is free to enter...not because you run the best event. Don't focus on my comment count on this forum as a gauge of my insight.....as I was exchanging emails with FINS on this forum when he was 14 years old!LOL Anyway, don't lock yourself into some position by debating it here.....take everyone's comments back to the office and think about it in a group setting after you are not so tired and we'll see what your wisdom does next year.There is always room for your event to be improved and this forum has given you several worthy ideas that should be considered.Good Luck.
  • saltwater classicsaltwater classic Posts: 14 Greenhorn
    Let me try to clarify the treble hook issue. We are not a strictly Kingfish tournament. A good majority of our participants are of the ''weekend warrior'' type of angler and if treble hooks were allowed they would be used by all, indiscrimanately, while targeting all top water species, it is for this reason that we do not allow treble hooks. We mirror the IGFA rules and they clearly state the use of treble hooks to be against the rules. The agreement with Guy Harvey also mirrors this.

    Contrary to what you may believe, it is a conservation issue and it is an issue that our sponsors and mangement are well aware of. The catching of an undersized fish or non-targeted species has a pretty slim chance of survival when they swallow a treble hook. This is a fact, not something I or the radio station made up.

    I respect your experience and welcome your comments, suggestions and criticisms. As mentioned in previous posts we spend a great deal of time planning this event. Much of that time is spent on trying to streamline and improve it. We take comments from these types of forums and do discuss them. While I am currently speaking on behalf of the event under the Saltwater Classic moniker, I too am a longtime FS member.

    Again as mentioned previously, this type of event is not for everyone, it is designed to attract large numbers of participants and provide a fun, entertaining and memorable time for those that choose to enter. It is also designed to provide our sponsors with a large audience of the demographic that offshore fishing attracts. I believe we succeed in this and I also believe that the majority of our participants feel this way too.

    I do appreciate your voice in this matter and I hope I was able to clarify the treble hook issue for all to understand.

    Capt. Rodg
  • integritypestintegritypest Posts: 24 Greenhorn
    This being my third year fishing it I look forward to next year already
  • marineguy1marineguy1 Posts: 4 Greenhorn
    Let me try to clarify the treble hook issue. We are not a strictly Kingfish tournament. A good majority of our participants are of the ''weekend warrior'' type of angler and if treble hooks were allowed they would be used by all, indiscrimanately, while targeting all top water species, it is for this reason that we do not allow treble hooks. We mirror the IGFA rules and they clearly state the use of treble hooks to be against the rules. The agreement with Guy Harvey also mirrors this.

    Contrary to what you may believe, it is a conservation issue and it is an issue that our sponsors and mangement are well aware of. The catching of an undersized fish or non-targeted species has a pretty slim chance of survival when they swallow a treble hook. This is a fact, not something I or the radio station made up.

    I respect your experience and welcome your comments, suggestions and criticisms. As mentioned in previous posts we spend a great deal of time planning this event. Much of that time is spent on trying to streamline and improve it. We take comments from these types of forums and do discuss them. While I am currently speaking on behalf of the event under the Saltwater Classic moniker, I too am a longtime FS member.

    Again as mentioned previously, this type of event is not for everyone, it is designed to attract large numbers of participants and provide a fun, entertaining and memorable time for those that choose to enter. It is also designed to provide our sponsors with a large audience of the demographic that offshore fishing attracts. I believe we succeed in this and I also believe that the majority of our participants feel this way too.

    I do appreciate your voice in this matter and I hope I was able to clarify the treble hook issue for all to understand.

    Capt. Rodg

    OK, based upon your first three lines.........never mind. The only thing that was clarified was that you don't know what your talking about regarding how anglers would preferentially rig for different species. Perhaps, you need to just remove kings or Guy Harvey from your list because you can't make sound decisions. The FSFA and CFOA are not single species kingfishing events and that is firsthand knowledge to draw upon. Secondly, Guy Harvey would be embarassed by you using him as the basis to make your argument. Argue within the depth of your own experience or hire a consultant who can as there are people out there that can put statistics(easily converted to dollars) into your decision making process. I thought you ran this tournament for money? Now you seem to invoke a conservation position while criticizing Not-for-profit events that hide behind a conservation cause. You previously said something to that effect. Remember, I suggested you leave it alone, take notes and consult with others later.......but you went to the shed for a shovel. In general you seem to gloss over people's suggestions/comments and then act like we don't understand conservation issues, IGFA rules and such and then you enlighten us to clarify you position. Either work to make your event more inviting to the masses for profit or stand on your newly built conservation pedestal.
  • saltwater classicsaltwater classic Posts: 14 Greenhorn
    marineguy1 wrote: »
    OK, based upon your first three lines.........never mind. The only thing that was clarified was that you don't know what your talking about regarding how anglers would preferentially rig for different species. Perhaps, you need to just remove kings or Guy Harvey from your list because you can't make sound decisions. The FSFA and CFOA are not single species kingfishing events and that is firsthand knowledge to draw upon. Secondly, Guy Harvey would be embarassed by you using him as the basis to make your argument. Argue within the depth of your own experience or hire a consultant who can as there are people out there that can put statistics(easily converted to dollars) into your decision making process. I thought you ran this tournament for money? Now you seem to invoke a conservation position while criticizing Not-for-profit events that hide behind a conservation cause. You previously said something to that effect. Remember, I suggested you leave it alone, take notes and consult with others later.......but you went to the shed for a shovel. In general you seem to gloss over people's suggestions/comments and then act like we don't understand conservation issues, IGFA rules and such and then you enlighten us to clarify you position. Either work to make your event more inviting to the masses for profit or stand on your newly built conservation pedestal.

    Like many forums these days there are those that are intent to drag others into a confrontation. My intent on posting to this thread was to inform those interested in the situation at hand which was the incident with the First Place Dolphin in our tournament. That situation has been explained and rectified to the satisfaction of all parties involved.

    If you are not happy with my explantion on the why's and how's of the operation of our event so be it. I will not engage you in any type of internet argument for the sake of argument.

    Bottom line is once again: If you are not comfortable fishing our event in the fashion that we offer, simply choose not to.

    Thanks to all once again for your participation and we look forward to seeing you at next year's K92.3 Saltwater Classic.

    I can easily be reached through the PM system here.

    Capt. Rodg
  • yachteryachter Posts: 200 Deckhand
    Thanks again for a great tourny, keep doing what your doing, 99% of the people enjoy it
  • ProFISHentProFISHent Posts: 731 Officer
    If you dont mind me asking, what does guy harvey have against grouper fishing? I understand he is some huge "conservationist" but with tighter than tight limits and a growing population of an already healthy species I think its more than fair to say people can fish for their 1 per person grouper (obviously gag or black will win the tourny unless a big warsaw is pulled from a wreck). I do understand you and your tournament attempt to step on very few toes during this process but if you look at the grand sceam of things no tournament is for "conservation" as a decent number of fish (INCLUDING billfish caught by pros like harvey) die after release. I fished SKA for years, have rod and reel commercial fished for years growing up and have spent countless days offshore just like most of you. The truth of the matter is rules like this are made only to keep the big wigs happy, as they have no real merit in this sport. We fish exclusively with stinger trebles in SKA and VERY rarely have gut hooked fish, why? because the entire idea of a stinger is because the fish are famous for short striking. I would have to say the mortality rate is a very negligible amount over standard j hooks. It is also commented that these hooks might wound fish that are not target species for the tournament or under size for the tournament. Make no mistake, 99% of the boats out there boxed every legal fish they caught. Regardless of if it met the 15 lb minimum or if it was a target species. Gas is just too expensive to fish just to fish. Another comment I might add is that this is a tournament for "weekend warriors", the fact is most the guys out there that dont know their a$$ from their elbows (what I would call weekend warriors) also dont know how to make a haywire twist. So they will buy kingfish rigs, kingfish rigs with treble hooks.

    Like I said I am not arguing just to argue but just giving you real world thoughts from someone who spends a lot of time on the water. I have more than a few suggestions for the tourney but am interested in seeing how these play out. Let me know if you have any questions.

    Like I said I have had fun in the past the few years I have fished it and always enjoy drinking the night before even if I dont plan on fishing in the madhouse the following day. You guys do throw a fun tournament.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,246 AG
    ProFISHent wrote: »
    Another comment I might add is that this is a tournament for "weekend warriors", the fact is most the guys out there that dont know their a$$ from their elbows (what I would call weekend warriors) also dont know how to make a haywire twist. So they will buy kingfish rigs, kingfish rigs with treble hooks.



    What?....You're kidding.....I figured all tournament anglers were world class.....

    Besides...they know their elbow....it's what they bend while lifting that beer can! LOL!
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • PlumbLocoPlumbLoco Posts: 47 Deckhand
    Add black sea bass so us weekend warriors can feel like we can win.
    It's a good day.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,246 AG
    PlumbLoco wrote: »
    Add black sea bass so us weekend warriors can feel like we can win.

    And Cudas and Bonita for the trollers....
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • PlumbLocoPlumbLoco Posts: 47 Deckhand
    Oh and let's not forget our shore bound anglers. We can add Sherpa head an whiting.
    It's a good day.
  • mako221mako221 Posts: 87 Deckhand
    Fins13 wrote: »
    Yes it clearly states in the rules 50 mile limit. I know some people that are pretty pissed about this.

    Yes 50 mile is the Rule I won the 3rd Dolphin and heard from numerous people about the 1st being caught 86 miles out. I was contacted by the tournament director the 1st place boat was disqualified they had no clue of the rules and are returning their winnings so we were bumped to 2nd and who ever was 4th should be getting a check now to.
  • mako221mako221 Posts: 87 Deckhand
    I was the 3rd place Dolphin k92 did handle the situation very quickly and we were bumped to 2nd. The 1st place boat was unaware of the 50mile rule. My only concern with that whole situation was that there are a lot of not as experienced people who fish this tournament and If they hear the boat last year ran out 86 miles to catch a winning fish well there will be alot of people pushing their boats to the limits trying to get to the other side of the Gulf Stream or other places they may not belong without the proper equipment. By the way we were only in a hundred feet of water and caught numerous dolphin and a sailfish trolling a weedline i saw lots of weeds that day but the line in a hundred ft was the only one I saw with birds and much bigger fish life. We were on our way out to a deeper spot to catch amberjack and bottomfish and only saw half a dozen boats all day long I dont know where everyone goes in that tournament but I am guessing pelican flats 8a and the weather buoy must be parking lots.
  • shouldabeenworkinshouldabeenworkin Posts: 60 Deckhand
    Nice to have a bunch of guys giving honest reports. I don't feel so alone now. Fisherman are liars by nature and obligation for that matter but some days you just gotta call it as it was. Remember, "Big Brother" is listening and if you say you are catching this many of this and that many of that they present this as fact that we recreational fisherman are killing a WHOLE LOT MORE than we actually are and regulating us from that information.
  • yachteryachter Posts: 200 Deckhand
    Very true but if you land a nice legal catch, don't tell me you didn't have a camera. Every phone has one now so the days of saying "no pix" are long gone.
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