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Who In the Boat is Responsible for Undersized Possession???

mixitupmixitup Posts: 28 Greenhorn
Here is the scenario: Four guys go fishing, they catch red grouper. They come in with well under the legal limit of four per person. One fisherman kept three red grouper and measured his own catch to determine if they are legal (20"+). The others did not catch or keep a legal red grouper.

Marine Patrol stops the boat, finds that one of the red grouper is 19-1/2" and another is just over 19".

Question: Who is responsible, and who gets the fine? What if the fishermen say that the boat owner did not keep any of the red grouper? Or, does the boat owner have the final responsibility, and what does he get hit with in terms of fines?
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Replies

  • Bottom LinesBottom Lines Posts: 1,105 Officer
    Not positive on the legalities, but I would hope it all lies with the boat owner. As the Captain, I measure EVERYTHING that goes into my box...
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    Easy .

    No one, since there is no Marine Patrol to stop anyone and check.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • mixitupmixitup Posts: 28 Greenhorn
    Easy .

    No one, since there is no Marine Patrol to stop anyone and check.

    What does that mean? Has the Florida Marine Patrol been disbanded or what? Or is that some kind of cynical comment about something. In any event, it does not answer the question and does not help.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    mixitup wrote: »
    What does that mean? Has the Florida Marine Patrol been disbanded or what?

    That's right. Stay with the action.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • mixitupmixitup Posts: 28 Greenhorn
    Well good. Too much guberment control of everything including fishing. I did not know that the marine patrol was gone, but thank you, Gov. Scott for that.
  • INTREPID377INTREPID377 Posts: 3,737 Captain
    mixitup wrote: »
    What does that mean? Has the Florida Marine Patrol been disbanded or what? Or is that some kind of cynical comment about something. In any event, it does not answer the question and does not help.

    You tell him! This Colecchio guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Set him straight. It should turn out very well for you.

    Oh, to answer your question, the Captain/Owner is responsible for everything that happens on their boat.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    **** straight.:thumbsup
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • (ex)lip-ripper(ex)lip-ripper Posts: 195 Officer
    You tell him! This Colecchio guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Set him straight. It should turn out very well for you.

    Oh, to answer your question, the Captain/Owner is responsible for everything that happens on their boat.

    actually, that used to be correct. FWC now assigns legal responsibility by different (political) criteria.

    a NON owner/NON operator of a vessel , can and has been charged by FWC as being the "responsible party"

    http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7ndghX1PmiUASoFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1a3EwNmJvBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0ZFRDAxMV8yNzE-/SIG=13sbs315a/EXP=1333655008/**http%3a//jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-05/story/felony_charges_recommended_against_responsible_party
  • blogsblogs Posts: 6 Greenhorn
    really?haha.g.gif
    Easy .

    No one, since there is no Marine Patrol to stop anyone and check.
  • Actually if stopped, no problem, they would probably identify the fish as a yellowtail snapper and call it legal.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,693 AG
    That's right. Stay with the action.
    Too effing funny...
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • mixitupmixitup Posts: 28 Greenhorn
    I am not sure why I am being attacked for asking a question. Apparently the experts here don't know the answer, although I appreciate them trying -- even if they are wrong.

    The answer still has not been provided, as far as I or anyone could tell. So, someone who is a real expert, please answer. I thought that when I used to look at this area, there was a FDLE guy who would answer.

    Hey I don't think that anyone should take away our fishing freedom in any way, I just want to protect my **** just in case what I asked happens.
  • NOAA-EnforcementNOAA-Enforcement Posts: 202 Moderator
    I can only answer how it would be handled in federal waters. If four guys are fishing on your personal boat, as recreational fishermen and you were stopped in federal waters. Hopefully the guy who caught the short fish would step up and he would be the one charged. If no one stepped up and claimed the fish the captain/owner of the boat would be charged.


    mixitup wrote: »
    Here is the scenario: Four guys go fishing, they catch red grouper. They come in with well under the legal limit of four per person. One fisherman kept three red grouper and measured his own catch to determine if they are legal (20"+). The others did not catch or keep a legal red grouper.

    Marine Patrol stops the boat, finds that one of the red grouper is 19-1/2" and another is just over 19".

    Question: Who is responsible, and who gets the fine? What if the fishermen say that the boat owner did not keep any of the red grouper? Or, does the boat owner have the final responsibility, and what does he get hit with in terms of fines?
    My purpose on this site is to help everyone understand Federal Fishery Regulations and to provide information. Working with the Florida Sportsman is a collateral (volunteer) duty I asked for and enjoy; I will only give you an answer that I’m willing to put my name on and stand behind. Sometimes that means checking with other agents/offices in the area of concern.
    Please Stay Safe And Have A Wonderful Day.
    Special Agent Allan Coker
    NOAA's Office For Fishery Law Enforcement
  • (ex)lip-ripper(ex)lip-ripper Posts: 195 Officer
    ... Hopefully the guy who caught the short fish would step up and he would be the one charged. If no one stepped up and claimed the fish the captain/owner of the boat would be charged.

    a cut & paste answer right off the FWC site

    WHY?????? if the person that actually commited a crime can't be identified,...... do you just ASSIGN guilt?:huh

    this is a POSESSION charge,.... how do 4 people posess ONE fish?


    some times the BG is NOT charged due to LACK of PROOF,..... but it seems law enforcement is the judge and jury
    :Bike
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    mixitup wrote: »
    ... When I used to look at this area, there was a FDLE guy who would answer. I just want to protect my **** just in case what I asked happens.

    There are no FDLE agents posting. If there where, they wouldn't answer because they don't do that. I assure you that FMP will not stop you for this or any infraction. I suggest that you know your species and governing regulations and don't place yourself or your passengers at risk.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • GT FishGT Fish Posts: 9,448 Officer
    Well from my past experience the person who poaches gets the ticket. I was about 18 and had 2 guys on my boat spearing lobster and keeping shorts. I had my bag of legal lobsters in the cooler. The FWC stopped us and they found their bag after they denied having any. They tried to pin it on me . I told the officer point blank those are not mine AT ALL. They gave the tickets to both of them. They were pissed at me ,but I told them not to do it.
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  • mixitupmixitup Posts: 28 Greenhorn
    There are no FDLE agents posting. If there where, they wouldn't answer because they don't do that. I assure you that FMP will not stop you for this or any infraction. I suggest that you know your species and governing regulations and don't place yourself or your passengers at risk.

    I don't know why you give such a strange, vague answer. If you have an answer, please give it clearly.

    Are you saying that FMP won't stop anyone about ANY infraction? Or are you saying that there is no FMP anymore?

    And if FMP won't stop someone, why would it matter if someone knows their species and limits. Such a reply makes no sense, so please explain if I am missing something.

    Finally, a while back I went to a fishing club where FMP officers said that they WERE part of FDLE. Has that changed also?

    Please, I would appreciate it if you or someone who knows what he is talking about would give the rest of us some real answers and not a lot of strange and vague innuendo.
  • NOAA-EnforcementNOAA-Enforcement Posts: 202 Moderator
    There is no Florida Marine Patrol (FMP) anymore. They merged several years ago with the Florida Game and Fish and become the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWCC). Yes, they still work on the water and will check you on the water.
    My purpose on this site is to help everyone understand Federal Fishery Regulations and to provide information. Working with the Florida Sportsman is a collateral (volunteer) duty I asked for and enjoy; I will only give you an answer that I’m willing to put my name on and stand behind. Sometimes that means checking with other agents/offices in the area of concern.
    Please Stay Safe And Have A Wonderful Day.
    Special Agent Allan Coker
    NOAA's Office For Fishery Law Enforcement
  • JaxOfishalJaxOfishal Posts: 14 Deckhand
    While I am enjoying the banter I have to end it. Mixitup you are missing something. Like NOAA posted above the FMP is no more, that is why they won’t be stopping you and haven’t since 1999. The regulating agency on the water that now does that job plus numerous others is FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission). They, nor the former agencies have never been part of FDLE. As for your question about possession, the answer has been posted on here in several different post. If it can be determined(usually through an honest person), then the person who caught the fish gets the ticket. if not then the boat owner/captain gets it. There is also a joint possession law that can be applied.

    Sorry to run the fun Gary.
  • GreyRiderGreyRider Posts: 61 Deckhand
    68B-14.006 Other Prohibitions.
    (1) Possession of any fish in excess of any applicable bag limit or smaller than any minimum size limit established by this chapter by any person aboard a vessel fishing in state waters constitutes a violation of this chapter.
    (2) No person shall possess, transport, buy, sell, exchange or offer to buy, sell or exchange any fish harvested in violation of this chapter.
    (3) The prohibitions of this chapter apply as well to any and all persons operating a vessel in state waters, who shall be deemed to have violated any prohibition which has been violated by another person aboard such vessel.
    (4) All fish harvested from Florida or adjacent federal Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) waters pursuant to the requirements of this chapter shall be landed in a whole condition. The possession, while in or on state waters, on any public or private fishing pier, on a bridge or catwalk attached to a bridge from which fishing is allowed, or on any jetty, of such fish that have been deheaded, sliced, divided, filleted, ground, skinned, scaled or deboned is prohibited. Mere evisceration or “gutting” of fish, or mere removal of gills from fish, before landing is not prohibited. Preparation of fish for immediate consumption on board the vessel from which the fish were caught is not prohibited.
    Specific Authority Art. IV, Sec. 9, Fla. Const. Law Implemented Art. IV, Sec. 9, Fla. Const. History–New 12-11-86, Amended 2-1-90, 7-15-96, 12-31-98, Formerly 46-14.006.


    https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=68B-14
  • Egreen cobraEgreen cobra Posts: 230 Deckhand
    a cut & paste answer right off the FWC site

    WHY?????? if the person that actually commited a crime can't be identified,...... do you just ASSIGN guilt?:huh

    this is a POSESSION charge,.... how do 4 people posess ONE fish?


    some times the BG is NOT charged due to LACK of PROOF,..... but it seems law enforcement is the judge and jury
    :Bike

    Well the Grouper Ferry didn't just drop the fish on the boat. Wouldn't it just be convenient if poachers could get out of all trouble by just saying "it's not mine" or "I didn't know", or my favorite "somebody gave it to me".
    but it seems law enforcement is the judge and jury
    :Bike
    Really? Explain that one for us...
  • mixitupmixitup Posts: 28 Greenhorn
    JaxOfishal wrote: »
    While I am enjoying the banter I have to end it. Mixitup you are missing something. Like NOAA posted above the FMP is no more, that is why they won’t be stopping you and haven’t since 1999. The regulating agency on the water that now does that job plus numerous others is FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission). They, nor the former agencies have never been part of FDLE. As for your question about possession, the answer has been posted on here in several different post. If it can be determined(usually through an honest person), then the person who caught the fish gets the ticket. if not then the boat owner/captain gets it. There is also a joint possession law that can be applied.

    Sorry to run the fun Gary.

    Well thank you for the straight answer. I made a mistake by using the generic, old term "Marine Patrol" in my question. However, is that any reason for my question to be treated the way it was? I have not seen that kind of "ranking the new guy" since I have been in high school. Maybe those responders and their attaboy supporters are just juveniles too, but that does not seem to do well for how this forum is seen by newcomers like me or anyone else.

    I was just asking a reasonable question!
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    Know your regulations and the agencies enforcing them , govern your actions accordingly and you need not concern yourself with your hypothetical scenarios.

    In simpler terms, don't keep undersized or overlimit fish or hang around with people who do.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • quatinquatin Posts: 598 Officer
    mixitup wrote: »
    Well thank you for the straight answer. I made a mistake by using the generic, old term "Marine Patrol" in my question. However, is that any reason for my question to be treated the way it was? I have not seen that kind of "ranking the new guy" since I have been in high school. Maybe those responders and their attaboy supporters are just juveniles too, but that does not seem to do well for how this forum is seen by newcomers like me or anyone else.

    I was just asking a reasonable question!

    Gary does that to everyone, not just new guys. Don't take it personally if you want to hang around here.
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,417 Admiral
    a cut & paste answer right off the FWC site

    WHY?????? if the person that actually commited a crime can't be identified,...... do you just ASSIGN guilt?:huh

    this is a POSESSION charge,.... how do 4 people posess ONE fish?


    some times the BG is NOT charged due to LACK of PROOF,..... but it seems law enforcement is the judge and jury
    :Bike

    I thought you had a good point, until I thought about it. Who owns the cooler that they were in? Nobody admits to it? Then, who owns the boat? Impound the boat, pending further investigation. No charges need to be filed immediately. The investigation could take a year while they cut open all the decks to look for more contraband.
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  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,982 Admiral
    a cut & paste answer right off the FWC site

    WHY?????? if the person that actually commited a crime can't be identified,...... do you just ASSIGN guilt?:huh

    this is a POSESSION charge,.... how do 4 people posess ONE fish?


    some times the BG is NOT charged due to LACK of PROOF,..... but it seems law enforcement is the judge and jury
    :Bike

    Humm, I wonder why such a response was made? The FWC is not the judge or jury they just handed out a citation based on what they find, it is up to the judge to hand down the sentence, if you don’t like it or fell it is wrong you will get the opportunity to tell it to the judge.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • (ex)lip-ripper(ex)lip-ripper Posts: 195 Officer
    quatin wrote: »
    Gary does that to everyone, not just new guys. Don't take it personally if you want to hang around here.

    nothin new there,.................. SOS
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    Aren't you the guy evading state registration fees by thinking that you can move your vehicles back and forth to another state every two weeks even though you claim Florida residency?

    Maybe we should inquire of the Florida Department of Revenue about that practice. But then again we may not have to because state law enforcement reads this site.:blowkiss
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Capt M BrennanCapt M Brennan Posts: 488 Officer
    Know your regulations and the agencies enforcing them , govern your actions accordingly and you need not concern yourself with your hypothetical scenarios.

    In simpler terms, don't keep undersized or overlimit fish or hang around with people who do.

    Well said.
    Captain Mike Brennan
  • kirt123kirt123 Posts: 18 Greenhorn
    I dont normally post to these threads and dont mean to derail it but I have one question. Does Mr. Gary S. Collechio ever contribute anything to a thread or is he always a d00uche? I dont think I have ever seen a worthwhile comment from him? I believe the OP asked a simple question of whether a marine patrol officer, FWCC officer, game warden, etc... stopped you who would be responsible for an undrsized fish. Really is that a tough question? I think everyone knew what the OP meant by marine patrol as he was using it as a generic term for a law enforcement officer. To the OP, I have never been in this situation personally but know a few who were and the one who caught the fish not the captain got the citation. It was left to the discretion of the officer and they chose to only give the individual who caught the fish a citation. Sorry for the ranting.... Kirt
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