Home Conservation Front

Fertilizer plants continue? Where is CCA?

BaitMasterBaitMaster Posts: 13 Deckhand
edited July 15 in Conservation Front #1
DEAD FISH EVERYWHERE from this current Algae bloom !!  
I keep hearing a Tampa area radio broadcaster blame the Piney Point Spill on politicians. I believe that is part of the problem, but why are we not holding these current fertilizer producers responsible?  I find this “Reeldisappointing”. I have also heard this radio show host talk about hosting fishing trips for Mosiac. There was a even a corporate Mosiac logo  as a sponsor of their Television program.

Growing up in Tampa, and after college, I  enjoyed listening to Captmel back in the 90's, and later I continues to his podcasts (untill he unexpectedly left us a decade ago). I have even enjoy the Reelhosts radio, and television fishing show for years. However, I am tired of hearing the the blame on politicians, when there is a fertilizer corporation repeating the same activity that Piney creek fertilizer performed before they declared bankruptcy and abandoned large ponds of Toxic (high nitrogen) content for future populations to handle. 

 I think we are all disappointed in what has happened with the fish kill in Tampa Bay, and the central west coast of Florida.  Where is Florida Coastal Conservation Association?  Why are they not currently protesting again Mosiac Fertilizer, and the other industries directly associated to this Toxic mess.  Piney point fertilizer, the company that constructed those ponds and filled them with Toxic wastewater, may no longer be around.  However, Mosiac (formerly Cargill's location) is still a very profitable company and appears to continue to maintain similar Toxic ponds on their facilities. 

One of the big issues with the pollution of Tampa bay is the Fertilizer companies.  I grew up in Riverview in the 70's, prior to the existence of Interstate 75 when the major Hwy was 41 (then North to I-4). We drove past Cargill as they continued to construct this mountain from phosphate by-products at the mouth of the Alafia River and Tampa Bay.  I never realized until recently (utilizing Google earth) that at the top of this toxic heap/ mound are more large (Toxic?) holding ponds. 

One summer, my mother dropped us off at a Babysitter on Riverview Road (Several miles East of Cargill). I would  watch heavy equipment (very attractive to young boys everywhere)  moving soil, and see large dump trucks, deposit loads of dirt(?) while constructing this mound.  In the more recent decades since I moved to North Texas,  there appears to be another large mound on the East side of Hwy 41, with another holding pond in the middle(Is this also owned by Mosiac?). 

Those toxic ponds at Pine Point Phosphate are not the current politicians fault.  What is the end-game to those Toxic ponds except to leave them there for the future populations to handle (at those populations expense)?  Now, They are discussing using deep injection wells to dispose of this toxic water??  Are we just burying and hiding this issue ( What goes down, must come up)?

Right now, The issues is the phosphate polluting the waters contributing to the algae bloom. This has been happening for decades.  My Uncle lived on the Alafia River, East of the Hwy 301 bridge. We would visit to him to  fish (I have caught snook and Redfish from his dock) and swim.  In the 1970's, you could watch schools of Tarpon swim east of Hwy 301, following the large schools of migrating mullet.  Fisherman would target them from the Riverview Civic Center.  That seems to have changed after the fertilizer companies  discharged toxic waste chemicals into the tributaries flowing into Alafia river killing all fish.  However, through the 90's, I was still able to find large Snook hiding in the mangrove roots in shallow pools of water in the Alafia River just west of Lithia Springs, and even some smaller snook up river from here.

 View google earth and you will recognize that those "mountains" of radioactive by-products now owned by Mosiac, appear to be topped with  even LARGER (compared to Piney Point) TOXIC ponds, just waiting for a powerful Hurricane to make a direct hit in the Tampa Bay area and spill this TOXIC waste water into the Alafia River and Tampa Bay.  What is the purpose of these ponds?? We should demand that Mosiac process these Toxic ponds NOW, at their own expense. 


  I am stunned. and angry, as I started scheduling our vacation back to Florida nearly a year ago (with the boat in tow) to Tampa as well as  the Florida Keys. It now looks like every single fish in Tampa Bay has died and is floating on the surface.    



There are Island's of rotten smelly dead fish stretching for miles inside, and outside of Tampa Bay. This Toxic bloom has been happening for years up and down the west coast of Florida. Two years ago, while on vacation we experienced another Toxic fish killing algae bloom in the panhandle of Florida  (Ft. Walton Beach). This impacted my family fishing vacation to that area. It may have recovered, but I will no longer be visiting Ft. Walton Beach. 

All these people, and organizations, are claiming to be for Conservation and protection of the environment.  Well that protection starts by stopping these Billion dollar organizations from creating and storing these toxic Chemicals in open pits/ponds right on the edge of Tampa Bay, in the first place!!!

Replies

  • JCSJCS Posts: 45 Deckhand
    With all with all due respect, CCA Florida’s membership is a tiny fraction of the number of actual anglers and boaters here in Florida.  As is often pointed out, if CCA’s was as large as the NRA, we would not have the problems we have with marine related issues.  It’s all about the numbers.  Tell a politician you represent 5 million constituents and you get their attention. tell them you represent 20,000 and they will not give you the time of day.  

    There are a lot of “keyboard warriors” that jump on the internet and like to blame and blast groups like CCA.  I am not sure if there intentions are self serving or they are just looking to start arguments.  Maybe a better use of their efforts would be to get involved with one of these groups they are targeting. 

    Full disclosure, I am a proud member of CCA.  I joined and have been heavily involved because I do not want to be one of those people that sit on the dock and ****.  Do I agree with everything they do, no, but I would challenge anyone to find a group that has done more for our fisheries and the marine environment than CCA.
  • BaitMasterBaitMaster Posts: 13 Deckhand
    "There are a lot of “keyboard warriors” that jump on the internet and like to blame and blast groups like CCA.".
     I blamed CCA???   Where did I blame CCA for the current Algae bloom on the west coast of Florida killing Millions of fish?   Where did I blame CCA for anything??   ON THE CONTRARY, I want to encourage CCA to get involved!!!!   Do what the name claims "Coastal Conservation" and perform it on the west coast, and I may renew my membership. I have heard broadcast members for CCA claim that they need 2 millions members to become a voice for the Recreational Angler.   The Tampa Bay area if looking for a voice right now.     CCA wants more members in Tampa Bay area, then put it out there. Take a stance, FIGHT!!! for the residence and all those poor fishies on the West Coast. I dropped my involvement with CCA when regulations were changed in Florida to allow commercial fisherman to harvest  Red Snapper, while decreasing the limits of the recreational angler. Effectively closing the ARS season to vacationers like me and my family.   We all know that the stocks of American Red Snapper or higher now, than they have ever been in HISTORY.  In Texas, we can still harvest ARS in Texas State Waters. 

    Red Snapper Season in State Waters TEXAS

    Open: Year-round
    Bag limit: 4 fish per person daily
    Size limit: 15-in minimum
    Applies to: Private recreational anglers in state waters.


    However, if all I hear from CCA is this "Star tournament", and the expensive prizes participants could win if they catch a tagged fish, or win a drawing, then I am not interested in Florida CCA. If you visit their site, https://ccaflorida.org/  we see a single article at the top about releasing 34K Red fish on the west coast (those are now all DEAD). Every other article attempts to raise money via the Star tournament.  I also don't care to see my fees going to Blair Wiggins and his Indian River Clam Restoration (I don't target clams in my leisure, although there was some large examples in Tampa Bay).  Tampa Bay's area population is large enough, that CCA needs a larger presence, and this is the perfect time.  I want to see more things in the Tampa Bay area.  A few years ago, there were CCA projects to restore the grass beds, and help bring back more fish.  Well, most of those fish are now dead!!

    I listen to a bunch of fishing Podcasts out of Florida (frequently live, but all these shows occur at the same time so I listen to the podcasts).  A few months ago, before the Piney Point spill, and the Red Tide, I would hear the spokes woman for CCA talk about getting members, and the "Star Tournament".  Now that these disasters are occurring on the West coast, I don't hear her anywhere!!   I hear all they need is 2 millions members to start to be a voice for the Recreational angler, and there are more than 3 million people in Bay area (Pinellas, Hillsborough, Manatee, Pasco, and maybe even Sarasota). Instead of speaking about your star tournament (nobody wants to go out after a major fish kill that occurs year after year), now is the time that the spoke woman for CCA should be making the rounds and telling the angers what CCA can do for them.  

    Since you are so " heavily involved", what is CCA doing about these Fertilizer ponds that threaten the west Coast?
    Are they discussing it.  Is anyone discussing it?  I pulled up Google Earth to locate Piney Point, as I was not familiar with that Corporation, and their ponds polluting the bay. I was completely surprised that Cargill, now Mosiaic has created the exact same hazard at the top of their mounds (why???) and practically no body knows they are there. I drive, and even launch my boat from that area all the time.  I believed that the most polluted part of that area was the parking lot at the ramp  on the Alafia rive, next to fertilizer plant.   I literally believed that the top of the mound was covered with a tarps and trees (I had heard that mounds is composed of radioactive by-product from Phosphate conversion to fertilizer).  I not seen CCA make a statement on this fish kill and these ponds involvement.   

    "Coast Conservation", In my opinion, (and I would really appreciate to learn I am mistaken!!) these Cargill constructed ponds now at Mosaic (and the pond at Piney Point) are major threats to Florida West Coast (even a larger threat than Piney Point), and we need an "Association" to sound the alarm.  These mounds are viewable all over the bay area, but very few people know that hidden at the summit, is a Toxic disaster looming within plain site (another one was constructed in the past 20 years located just east of hwy 41, in close proximity of the Alafia river) and right by the  "East Bay Raceway Park".   Why do we need these open cesspools of nitrogen waste located in some of the most promising beachfront in the bay area. 

    I think I have demonstrated my passion for this States Natural resources.  I have no issues with investing in an organization like CCA but they have to demonstrate that I will not be throwing my money away on projects outside my area of interest (TAMPA BAY).  There may be large political lobbyist representing the multi-billion dollar fertilizer organization, but the could still be available to help educate the public on the current dangers in plain view. 

  • JCSJCS Posts: 45 Deckhand
    To clarify this from the start, I do not work for CCA and the opinion I express is mine. You asked “where is CCA”, specifically calling put that organization as not getting involved in this issue.  As I said, I do not agree with everything they do.  One item I have raised concerns with is the lack of communication outside of their membership.  They send out updates of key items through their weekly newsletter but unfortunately that only goes to the 20,000 members.  In addition, they have a number of projects that are in progress but unfortunately the permitting process can take up to two years or more. Yes there are projects planned that include Piney Point but these will take time.  Our problems did not occur overnight and can’t be fixed overnight.  As an example look at the Everglades.  We created that problem 100 years ago and we are just seeing progress within the last few years.

    I think there is a few misunderstanding as to CCA in general. First they are a grassroots organization made up of volunteers.  They employ less than a dozen people in the state.  The spokeswoman that you mentioned is the STAR Tournament Director.  Her job is to promote the STAR Tournament.  She has done a great job but she is only one person.  The tournament serves two purposes, first to gain membership.  Secondly, they are able to share catch data, not specific locations, but species and general areas with FWC.  This data is used to make better decisions regarding fisheries management decisions and identify potential issues before it’s too late.  We, recreational anglers, are constantly called out by the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Council at every meeting I have sit in on regarding recreational catch data.  The only thing we have on the recreational side are ramp surveys which tend to be “best guess” numbers.

    With regard to a spokesperson, that responsibility falls under the Executive Directors position, but also in the information that volunteers are able communicate within their individual chapters.  This is all about educating the general public.  You can’t have conservation without education.

    There are a number of great groups out there that focus on specific issues.  Unfortunately having so many groups all pushing their specific issue makes communication with our elected officials difficult.  It also fractures the overall numbers so that no one group is able to stand out to the legislature. 

      You sound like a very passionate person and CCA could use your enthusiasm to get their message out.  I would encourage you to not only renew your membership but to also get involved.  
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,386 AG
    CCA doeswhat it always has, padding teir pockets off you ignoerant and unwashed masses.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • permit_mepermit_me Posts: 1,177 Officer
    i recall a couple years back, Manatee county tried to resist issuing a permit for a new mine. the old mining laws require the Govt to pay the amt made off the mine over time if permit denied. 
    Manatee county had no balls. they should have denied and then challenged the law. they caved. so it will continue.  It might just be time to move (to panhandle?).
    This aint gonna be resolved anytime soon. year in and year out since 2014 its been a major issue around the surrounding tampa bay (incl Nature coast too) region down to naples, the entire gulf coast basically. Florida also issue way too many permits to inject crap into the aquifer (or below, so they claim, but who is checking?) fert toxic sludge to wastewater. At the same time they allow nestle srekcuf to steal our spring water, helping ensure intrusion from the stuff the inject.   
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,386 AG
    How long they been mining phospate in Fl, decades?

    How long has redtide been documented, decades?

    Why are the out breaks worse in the last decade?

    Look in the **** mirror.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,891 Captain
    "There are a lot of “keyboard warriors” that jump on the internet and like to blame and blast groups like CCA.".
     I blamed CCA???   Where did I blame CCA for the current Algae bloom on the west coast of Florida killing Millions of fish?   Where did I blame CCA for anything??   ON THE CONTRARY, I want to encourage CCA to get involved!!!!   Do what the name claims "Coastal Conservation" and perform it on the west coast, and I may renew my membership. I have heard broadcast members for CCA claim that they need 2 millions members to become a voice for the Recreational Angler.   The Tampa Bay area if looking for a voice right now.     CCA wants more members in Tampa Bay area, then put it out there. Take a stance, FIGHT!!! for the residence and all those poor fishies on the West Coast. I dropped my involvement with CCA when regulations were changed in Florida to allow commercial fisherman to harvest  Red Snapper, while decreasing the limits of the recreational angler. Effectively closing the ARS season to vacationers like me and my family.   We all know that the stocks of American Red Snapper or higher now, than they have ever been in HISTORY.  In Texas, we can still harvest ARS in Texas State Waters. 

    Red Snapper Season in State Waters TEXAS

    Open: Year-round
    Bag limit: 4 fish per person daily
    Size limit: 15-in minimum
    Applies to: Private recreational anglers in state waters.


    However, if all I hear from CCA is this "Star tournament", and the expensive prizes participants could win if they catch a tagged fish, or win a drawing, then I am not interested in Florida CCA. If you visit their site, https://ccaflorida.org/  we see a single article at the top about releasing 34K Red fish on the west coast (those are now all DEAD). Every other article attempts to raise money via the Star tournament.  I also don't care to see my fees going to Blair Wiggins and his Indian River Clam Restoration (I don't target clams in my leisure, although there was some large examples in Tampa Bay).  Tampa Bay's area population is large enough, that CCA needs a larger presence, and this is the perfect time.  I want to see more things in the Tampa Bay area.  A few years ago, there were CCA projects to restore the grass beds, and help bring back more fish.  Well, most of those fish are now dead!!

    I listen to a bunch of fishing Podcasts out of Florida (frequently live, but all these shows occur at the same time so I listen to the podcasts).  A few months ago, before the Piney Point spill, and the Red Tide, I would hear the spokes woman for CCA talk about getting members, and the "Star Tournament".  Now that these disasters are occurring on the West coast, I don't hear her anywhere!!   I hear all they need is 2 millions members to start to be a voice for the Recreational angler, and there are more than 3 million people in Bay area (Pinellas, Hillsborough, Manatee, Pasco, and maybe even Sarasota). Instead of speaking about your star tournament (nobody wants to go out after a major fish kill that occurs year after year), now is the time that the spoke woman for CCA should be making the rounds and telling the angers what CCA can do for them.  

    Since you are so " heavily involved", what is CCA doing about these Fertilizer ponds that threaten the west Coast?
    Are they discussing it.  Is anyone discussing it?  I pulled up Google Earth to locate Piney Point, as I was not familiar with that Corporation, and their ponds polluting the bay. I was completely surprised that Cargill, now Mosiaic has created the exact same hazard at the top of their mounds (why???) and practically no body knows they are there. I drive, and even launch my boat from that area all the time.  I believed that the most polluted part of that area was the parking lot at the ramp  on the Alafia rive, next to fertilizer plant.   I literally believed that the top of the mound was covered with a tarps and trees (I had heard that mounds is composed of radioactive by-product from Phosphate conversion to fertilizer).  I not seen CCA make a statement on this fish kill and these ponds involvement.   

    "Coast Conservation", In my opinion, (and I would really appreciate to learn I am mistaken!!) these Cargill constructed ponds now at Mosaic (and the pond at Piney Point) are major threats to Florida West Coast (even a larger threat than Piney Point), and we need an "Association" to sound the alarm.  These mounds are viewable all over the bay area, but very few people know that hidden at the summit, is a Toxic disaster looming within plain site (another one was constructed in the past 20 years located just east of hwy 41, in close proximity of the Alafia river) and right by the  "East Bay Raceway Park".   Why do we need these open cesspools of nitrogen waste located in some of the most promising beachfront in the bay area. 

    I think I have demonstrated my passion for this States Natural resources.  I have no issues with investing in an organization like CCA but they have to demonstrate that I will not be throwing my money away on projects outside my area of interest (TAMPA BAY).  There may be large political lobbyist representing the multi-billion dollar fertilizer organization, but the could still be available to help educate the public on the current dangers in plain view.   


    So, you gripe about CCA, but say you won't support them unless they spend money on only projects of your interest, which is a very small part of the issues that we are having in this State. I guess you think the rest of us should support only groups that have no interest outside of Tampa Bay? Yeah, that's gonna happen. If you don't like it here, why do you come back. Stay in Texas and fish there.

  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,891 Captain
    ANUMBER1 said:
    How long they been mining phospate in Fl, decades?

    How long has redtide been documented, decades?

    Why are the out breaks worse in the last decade?

    Look in the **** mirror.
    Careful,Art. Them facts are gonna make people mad.
  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,891 Captain
    "There are a lot of “keyboard warriors” that jump on the internet and like to blame and blast groups like CCA.".
     I blamed CCA???   Where did I blame CCA for the current Algae bloom on the west coast of Florida killing Millions of fish?   Where did I blame CCA for anything??   ON THE CONTRARY, I want to encourage CCA to get involved!!!!   Do what the name claims "Coastal Conservation" and perform it on the west coast, and I may renew my membership. I have heard broadcast members for CCA claim that they need 2 millions members to become a voice for the Recreational Angler.   The Tampa Bay area if looking for a voice right now.     CCA wants more members in Tampa Bay area, then put it out there. Take a stance, FIGHT!!! for the residence and all those poor fishies on the West Coast. I dropped my involvement with CCA when regulations were changed in Florida to allow commercial fisherman to harvest  Red Snapper, while decreasing the limits of the recreational angler. Effectively closing the ARS season to vacationers like me and my family.   We all know that the stocks of American Red Snapper or higher now, than they have ever been in HISTORY.  In Texas, we can still harvest ARS in Texas State Waters. 

    Red Snapper Season in State Waters TEXAS

    Open: Year-round
    Bag limit: 4 fish per person daily
    Size limit: 15-in minimum
    Applies to: Private recreational anglers in state waters.


    However, if all I hear from CCA is this "Star tournament", and the expensive prizes participants could win if they catch a tagged fish, or win a drawing, then I am not interested in Florida CCA. If you visit their site, https://ccaflorida.org/  we see a single article at the top about releasing 34K Red fish on the west coast (those are now all DEAD). Every other article attempts to raise money via the Star tournament.  I also don't care to see my fees going to Blair Wiggins and his Indian River Clam Restoration (I don't target clams in my leisure, although there was some large examples in Tampa Bay).  Tampa Bay's area population is large enough, that CCA needs a larger presence, and this is the perfect time.  I want to see more things in the Tampa Bay area.  A few years ago, there were CCA projects to restore the grass beds, and help bring back more fish.  Well, most of those fish are now dead!!

    I listen to a bunch of fishing Podcasts out of Florida (frequently live, but all these shows occur at the same time so I listen to the podcasts).  A few months ago, before the Piney Point spill, and the Red Tide, I would hear the spokes woman for CCA talk about getting members, and the "Star Tournament".  Now that these disasters are occurring on the West coast, I don't hear her anywhere!!   I hear all they need is 2 millions members to start to be a voice for the Recreational angler, and there are more than 3 million people in Bay area (Pinellas, Hillsborough, Manatee, Pasco, and maybe even Sarasota). Instead of speaking about your star tournament (nobody wants to go out after a major fish kill that occurs year after year), now is the time that the spoke woman for CCA should be making the rounds and telling the angers what CCA can do for them.  

    Since you are so " heavily involved", what is CCA doing about these Fertilizer ponds that threaten the west Coast?
    Are they discussing it.  Is anyone discussing it?  I pulled up Google Earth to locate Piney Point, as I was not familiar with that Corporation, and their ponds polluting the bay. I was completely surprised that Cargill, now Mosiaic has created the exact same hazard at the top of their mounds (why???) and practically no body knows they are there. I drive, and even launch my boat from that area all the time.  I believed that the most polluted part of that area was the parking lot at the ramp  on the Alafia rive, next to fertilizer plant.   I literally believed that the top of the mound was covered with a tarps and trees (I had heard that mounds is composed of radioactive by-product from Phosphate conversion to fertilizer).  I not seen CCA make a statement on this fish kill and these ponds involvement.   

    "Coast Conservation", In my opinion, (and I would really appreciate to learn I am mistaken!!) these Cargill constructed ponds now at Mosaic (and the pond at Piney Point) are major threats to Florida West Coast (even a larger threat than Piney Point), and we need an "Association" to sound the alarm.  These mounds are viewable all over the bay area, but very few people know that hidden at the summit, is a Toxic disaster looming within plain site (another one was constructed in the past 20 years located just east of hwy 41, in close proximity of the Alafia river) and right by the  "East Bay Raceway Park".   Why do we need these open cesspools of nitrogen waste located in some of the most promising beachfront in the bay area. 

    I think I have demonstrated my passion for this States Natural resources.  I have no issues with investing in an organization like CCA but they have to demonstrate that I will not be throwing my money away on projects outside my area of interest (TAMPA BAY).  There may be large political lobbyist representing the multi-billion dollar fertilizer organization, but the could still be available to help educate the public on the current dangers in plain view. 

    By your post I am thinking you are in Florida now? Or have very recently left? You said that vacationers like yourself missed out on ARS season. You might have should looked at the dates of the smaller season in the GOM before making that claim. Just so you know, if you're still here, you can fish for reds every day from tomorrow through midnight next Friday. 
  • Tarpon MonoxideTarpon Monoxide Posts: 572 Officer
    "I keep hearing a Tampa area radio broadcaster blame the Piney Point Spill on politicians. I believe that is part of the problem, but why are we not holding these current fertilizer producers responsible?  I find this “Reeldisappointing”. I have also heard this radio show host talk about hosting fishing trips for Mosiac. There was a even a corporate Mosiac logo  as a sponsor of their Television program."

    As mentioned before that radio show host's TV fishing show was sponsored by Mosaic a fertilizer company. Out of one side of the mouth says join the CCA and promote "conservation" but on the other hand took sponsor money from the very fertilizer industry responsible for polluting the bay, which is not conservation.

    To have his name and fishing show linked by sponsorship to Mosaic is a sell out to the bay and the fishing industry for money in the pocket. Mosaic used the fishing show sponsorship to promote their "good public image" and for a fishing guide to allow that to be pushed falsely on the fishing public by Mosaic is sick. I am sure the fact that a fishing show was sponsored by a polluting fertilizer company so that the fertilizer company could make good public image with the unknowing.

    It's called hypocrisy say one thing, "conservation" and do another by "padding the wallet" with tainted Mosaic sponsor money and then complain later about the fertilizer company you were sponsored by. 

    The Mosaic sponsorship did its job of public relations well because during the time of Mosaic sponsoring the TV fishing show there was never any mention on that same host's radio show of the not so good things that the fertilizer industry and Mosaic has done to the bay. Sponsor money has the tendency to tie one's tongue.

    It is bad enough when politicians sell the bay out for campaign fund money but when a fishing guide with a radio and TV show sells out to Mosaic for a few lousy bucks of sponsorship money that is disgusting.




    AN ARTICLE IN JADA (JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN DENTAL ASSOCIATION) IN 2001 HAS THE ADMISSION THAT FLUORIDE SWALLOWED AND INCORPORATED INTO THE TEETH IS "INSUFFICIENT TO HAVE A MEASURABLE EFFECT" ON REDUCING CAVITIES."

    THE NOW CORRUPTED MEDIA MANIPULATES BY USING ORWELLIAN NEWSPEAK. In Orwell's words, Newspeak was "designed to diminish the range of thought." Newspeak seeks to eliminate or alter certain words that do not fit the media's ideological agenda. In Orwell's novel 1984 Newspeak is a way of controlling the people's language in order to keep the peons under ideological control.Newspeak is deceptive and deceitful as it stifles free speech and only allows only certain approved words, phrases and ideas to be used while other words are forbidden.

    Fauci's "Gain of Function" is newspeak for enhancing the contagiousness of a virus for use as a biological weapon in war. It was dumb, stupid and a threat to national security for the US  government with Fauci's blessing to help fund biological weapons enhancement in an arch enemy's country.  When Fauci used and pushed the euphemistic misnomer deceptive term "gain of function" the con was on.

    "Gain of Function" newspeak for "Viral Biological Warfare Weapons Enhancement".

    "Undocumented Immigrant" newspeak for "illegal alien".

    "Progressive" newspeak for "Marxist".

    "Dreamers" newspeak for "illegal aliens".

    "Immigration Reform" newspeak for "illegal alien amnesty".

    "Xenophobia" newspeak for those that want border security.

    "Gun control" newspeak for "confiscate your guns".

    "Pro-choice" newspeak for "pro-abortion".

    "Math is racist" newspeak for "we are too lazy to learn math".

    "Critical Race Theory" newspeak for "Reverse Discrimination Marxism".

    When a snake oil salesman knows that the snake oil does not sell with the accurate name he simply changes the name to the NEWSPEAK euphemistic misnomer "Magic Medicinal Elixir" to sell his misrepresented product otherwise not sellable.



  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,386 AG
    I support Mosaic and the jobs they provide thruout the region.

    Ever stop and think what might happen if Mosaic shut down and sold all their holdings?

    Can you say "The Villages South".
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • JCSJCS Posts: 45 Deckhand
    Unfortunately we cannot pin the current situation in Tampa Bay to one company or one industry.  If it were that simple they could have resolved red tide years ago.  Mote has been working on a solution for at least 40 years that I know of.

    Everything we do is a trade off and we all bare some responsibility.  One of the few things I agree with from ANUMBER1☺️.

    Fertilizer is needed to grow food.  Is there an alternative that is more environmentally friendly and if so at what cost?  If food cost doubled, is the public willing to accept it?

    Population growth in this country requires more development for housing, more food, more water, and creates more waste.  We still incentivize this growth through tax credits for more children and other incentives for people to come to this country.   

    Florida is running out of fresh water.  One solution is to create desalination plants like we did in Tampa.  One of the waste items created in the process is salt.  The salt is reintroduced into the bay creating a hyper saline environment.  Although red tide can tolerate varying degrees of salinity, it prefers high saline environment.  

    Moving everyone to sewer vs. septic creates the need for additional treatment plants.  Through the treatment process bio solids are created which need disposal.  There are farms which accept these bio solids but this waste eventually makes its way back into the water systems.  Worse yet, attempts have been made in the waste to disperse the bio solids on adjacent to tributaries which flow into Tampa Bay and other waterways. Luckily the attempt to disperse this in land adjacent to the Little Manatee River did not get approved.

    Many sewer lines and components are failing and in need of replacement.  Just yesterday a valve failure resulted in 1500 gallons of untreated waste to be discharged into the bay.  Who will pay for the necessary upgrades?

    These are just a few things that could be contributing to the current situation. This will not be solved overnight.  Get involved and let’s starting holding our elected officials responsible to spend our tax dollars efficiently and effectively.  We could have done a lot of habitat cleanup with $1 million that was spent to study a lizard on a treadmill.😀


  • Tarpon MonoxideTarpon Monoxide Posts: 572 Officer
    edited July 20 #14
    Nobody is blaming the red tide situation on just one industry or one company or one person, it is more than that. It is good the fertilizer industry creates jobs and helps grow food. It is bad that over the years the fertilizer companies have cut corners to make more money for the CEO's and stock holders at the expense of the environment and costing others their fishing and bay related jobs.

    Now that you mention jobs, Mosaic has had a lot to do with creating lots of other jobs, like toxic spill cleanup jobs, dead red tide fish removal jobs. 

    It's not the good the fertilizer industry has done, it's the bad they have done to the bay when for a few bucks they could have not done it. Then they buy good public relations by sponsoring a TV fishing show. Of course they are not the whole problem but they do have their share of it.

    There was no red tide in the bay and then a massive fertilizer dump into the bay off Piney Point and it did not take long for the red tide to bloom out of control. That spill caused the red tide to get going. Red tide is always in the background at low levels, but the fertilizer spill poured gas on a fire and lit it off.

    I noticed on TV over at Venetian Islands in NE st pete they were complaining about the stench of the red tide while in their back yard on the water by their nice green lawn more than likely from fertilizer that would feed the red tide. Every lawn on or near the bay is a source of red tide food from fertilizer run off and partly to blame That is why there is a ban on fertilizer in the summer months, but there is still run off.

    I


    AN ARTICLE IN JADA (JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN DENTAL ASSOCIATION) IN 2001 HAS THE ADMISSION THAT FLUORIDE SWALLOWED AND INCORPORATED INTO THE TEETH IS "INSUFFICIENT TO HAVE A MEASURABLE EFFECT" ON REDUCING CAVITIES."

    THE NOW CORRUPTED MEDIA MANIPULATES BY USING ORWELLIAN NEWSPEAK. In Orwell's words, Newspeak was "designed to diminish the range of thought." Newspeak seeks to eliminate or alter certain words that do not fit the media's ideological agenda. In Orwell's novel 1984 Newspeak is a way of controlling the people's language in order to keep the peons under ideological control.Newspeak is deceptive and deceitful as it stifles free speech and only allows only certain approved words, phrases and ideas to be used while other words are forbidden.

    Fauci's "Gain of Function" is newspeak for enhancing the contagiousness of a virus for use as a biological weapon in war. It was dumb, stupid and a threat to national security for the US  government with Fauci's blessing to help fund biological weapons enhancement in an arch enemy's country.  When Fauci used and pushed the euphemistic misnomer deceptive term "gain of function" the con was on.

    "Gain of Function" newspeak for "Viral Biological Warfare Weapons Enhancement".

    "Undocumented Immigrant" newspeak for "illegal alien".

    "Progressive" newspeak for "Marxist".

    "Dreamers" newspeak for "illegal aliens".

    "Immigration Reform" newspeak for "illegal alien amnesty".

    "Xenophobia" newspeak for those that want border security.

    "Gun control" newspeak for "confiscate your guns".

    "Pro-choice" newspeak for "pro-abortion".

    "Math is racist" newspeak for "we are too lazy to learn math".

    "Critical Race Theory" newspeak for "Reverse Discrimination Marxism".

    When a snake oil salesman knows that the snake oil does not sell with the accurate name he simply changes the name to the NEWSPEAK euphemistic misnomer "Magic Medicinal Elixir" to sell his misrepresented product otherwise not sellable.



  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,386 AG
    you have your mind made up, you're part of the problem
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • BaitMasterBaitMaster Posts: 13 Deckhand
    Thanks for everyone's input into this discussion.  

    Excellent point about desalination plant on Tampa Bay and contributing to the increased salinity, in which Karenia Brevis thrives. 

    I am not going to be back in Florida until 2nd week of August, when ARS season is closed.   It's only a 400 mile drive to the Texas area where we launch for nearshore fishing, and the fishing is great. When it comes to snapper fishing, I have had a lot more success in Texas all year long (I just don't see any reason for snapper to ever close in Florida waters, although I think having a slot limit would be an excellent idea). However, Texas beaches are no where nearly as attractive as Florida beaches.  I have family in Florida, and Texas does not have scallops, or Caribbean lobsters (our main attraction this trip). There is also more restrictive regulations for spearfishing and even catching bait (Legally, I can only throw a 7' net in Texas).  I also prefer to SCUBA dive the waters in the keys more than any other place on the planet. 
     
    I don't currently reside in Florida, but  we grew up on a small ranch near Tampa as a young child. I still have lot of family in the area (including my mother).  I had moved back after college for 5 years. I will continue to visit until we no longer have family there, and then I will probably vacation in areas west like the Grand Canyon, or Yellow-Stone.    

    The primary employment in the bay area, as well as much of Florida is not fertilizer production, it is Tourism.  I'm not a typical tourist, I make repeat visits (30 years worth as we stay at my mothers), and  tourist like myself spend THOU$AND$ on our visits, and we want to fish (I don't want Disney or any other Orlando theme park). While you can clean up the dead fish off the beaches, they still haven't figured out how to get rid of the Karenia brevis out of the water (we spend our time in the water, and not on the beach).  We will not be doing the Clearwater Bar crawl this year (we did that for the 1st time last year and enjoyed it).   I have come back and visited the Bay area nearly every single year since 1979, and moved back after college for 5 years in the 90's (snorkeled, and spearfished all around the bay).  I still consider moving back after retirement, but the pasture land that I once hunter (Step-father and his family) is now covered in houses. The population is exploding, the infrastructure is inadequate, and that is also contributing to the pollution of the bay.  I do believe in Global Warming, and consider it is only a mater of time before a strong Hurricane hits the bay area (and how is that going to impact those toxic lakes at the top of that mountain on the East bay of Tampa?).  There were fisherman fishing out in the Gulf last week, and had to boat through sewage that the city of St. Petersburg dumped into the water, while their own citizens complained about the Red tide littering more dead fish in their backyard canals.  Talking about adding more fuel to the fire.

    I have heard members claim that Florida-CCA (or CCA) wants to be the NRA of the water (I want to see that, although more successful).  CCA is a very large national organization. I see both Texas and Florida CCA as just part of the national organization that I want to see more involved during these openly threatening times. I have not seen them mention the water quality, and toxic issues of the Tampa Bay area (I want to see this).   You don't wait until winter to discuss it, you do it now and stoke the fire while the coals are hot.   I feel strongly that they have the ability to fill the marine fisherman's representation like the NRA is for gun ownership. 
     
    We "Do Florida" just about every year, unless we are taking a cruise (I hate cruises). I strongly believe that Florida has much more to offer than any other place I have visited.  By "Do Florida" I mean we dive for Scallops in Crystal River area, and lobster dive in the Florida keys. We off-shore and in-shore fish all over the state, and even do the typical Sand-and-shop (I prefer to hit the beaches while it is raining). I make certain to fish every single day (my mom has a pond stocked with Bass, bluegills, and invasive aquarium fish that escaped from the fish-farms on the other side of the  Rice-creek.  I don't like to visit Florida without the boat in tow (that is also where I stow my SCUBA/snorkeling gear).  However, we have also rented boats ($300/5 hours plus gas), and hired guides ($1,200+ for a charter), as well as taken "head boats" on fishing excursions (and I have the souvenir Tank tops to prove it). 

    I have been gearing up all year to return back with the boat to fish Tampa bay with my family.  As your children get older, even fishing the same areas change.  Many times I fish the shipping channel, and around the Sunshine Skyway, and I have gone from being the bait catcher, and hooker, to now competing with my wife and boys to see who catches "the best" fish.  That is why being outdoors on Tampa Bay is important to me.  I don't know what we are going to do in Tampa, except head North to Crystal river to Scallop and fish. At nearly $90/person for fishing licenses for 2 weeks of fishing and lobstering for a family of 4 (+ a friend) and it is easy to see how the revenues from  an out-of-state tourist quickly adds up. I want to avoid giving that to Disney and Orlando attractions. 

    I shared the expenses (not including food, and  lodging when I am not in the Tampa area), because that is just some of my personal expenses.  I love visiting Florida, but I am strongly considering what it would be like to visit the Carolinas, while my wife and kids push for more Cruises. 

    I also want to add that the Red tide doesn't just impact the Tampa Bay, or South West Coast areas.  In 2017 we spent a week in Pensacola (the dog and I camped at Big Kahuna state park, while the rest of the family stayed at a Hampton Inn) and we caught the Blue Angles off the beach (we also did it in 2016).  We then spent 3 days in Destin/Ft. Walton Beach.  Red tide impacted that area, and littered the beaches of Ft. Walton with Dead fish.  Fortunately, the wind kept the Red tide and dead fish away from Destin while we were there so we were able to salvage that part of our vacation. 

    Like rats and the plague, Red tide is naturally occurring, but not at the levels we have seen in the past several months.  I don't care what Governor Desantis claims, this algae bloom was fed, and the red tide damage was further exasperated by the Piney Point spill (created by Mulbery Phosphate). Maybe that added salinity from water desalination also worsened the situation?  It will probably happen again when another major rain event impacts the area.  I don't know of a reason why these toxic ponds should continue to be created and filled so close to the waters of Tampa bay.  Hundreds of tons of fish already cleaned up and it is not even August, surpassing the amount of dead fish cleaned up in the 2018 Red tide event.
  • BaitMasterBaitMaster Posts: 13 Deckhand
    sorry, correction -. $47/person for fishing licenses for the 2 weeks (Annual non-resident license cost). 


  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,386 AG
    mining may not be impotant to you "BUT" it is important to the folks employed by said mines and fertilizer plants..


    and one more time, if those large companies didn't profit from mining their land what do you think would happed to that land..

    Look up The Villages..
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • permit_mepermit_me Posts: 1,177 Officer
    SO why is it that we produce fertilizer at an increasingly higher rate than population increase?
    $$$ it does not produce more food. limit the production and and make the process cleaner (as they did when they discovered there toxic gases were killing cattle, other animal and plants.
    The over production of fertilzers worldwide has lead to an imbalance in N to P ratio in or oceans, which favors HABs over dinoflagellates (ie diatoms). This gives HAB's the edge in competition. There are diatoms that are known to reduce the impact of red tides on marine life. There presence can reduce the the other toxins (beside the brevitoxin) produced by red tide.
    Such a delicate web of ecosystems, yet we knowingly tolerate the over pollution.  Its our government that allows and oversees it.  like a beaten spouse we put up with it.

    Probably a little more important to get as many off septic that expand development.
    and jobs, well, the end up like the lumbers jack cutting down redwoods, salmon fisherman, FL gillnetters, soon to be former coal miners....unfortunately, we dont help the people who wanna work.

    Ideally, w rose glasses on, the people employed by mining phosphate and processing fertilizer would wind up working for companies that actually care about their communities. 

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,386 AG
    Fl, gillnetters were just a scapegoat. salmon fishermen seem to be doing very well.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • CaptJCaptJ Posts: 1,405 Officer
    Let's see how well the salmon gillnetters do with no water in the salmon  streams. Environmental issues exist all over the world, but we live in Florida and get to see the damage up close.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,386 AG
    record runs this year in Bristol bay
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Digital Now Included!

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

Preview This Month's Issue

Buy Digital Single Issues

Don't miss an issue.
Buy single digital issue for your phone or tablet.

Buy Single Digital Issue on the Florida Sportsman App

Other Magazines

See All Other Magazines

Special Interest Magazines

See All Special Interest Magazines

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Florida Sportsman stories delivered right to your inbox.

Advertisement

Phone Icon

Get Digital Access.

All Florida Sportsman subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets.

To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine.

Get Digital Access

Not a Subscriber?
Subscribe Now