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Medical Insurance

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  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,708 AG
    If you have a family member with assets, you need to talk to an elederly attorney before they get into a long term care facility, they can help move assets around to protect them while insuring the elderly get the care they need, 

    Bills do die with you unless you have assets to sell in the estate, why an attorney is important. 

    the one area where our system really does fail is the long term care of the elderly. Unless you are very rich or very poor, you will go broke getting long term care.

    Last thing for the younger people. Save your kids this heartache and get long term care insurance now that will pay the bills in old age, 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,708 AG
    edited November 2020 #33
    dave44 said:
    dave44 said:
    The real question is why would they come to the USA?

       Something needs to happen with insurance, I agree. Our coverage cost 1,000$ more this year than last, it’s going up for quite awhile, but that was a big jump.
       Government regulations and price fixing actually aren’t helping you old folks, there are many doctors that won’t take the insurance you have to have. Sometimes you may have to go hundreds of miles for a competent doctor, or one that will even see you.

            I know an old lady that nearly lost her leg because the quack close to her took the insurance, but was woefully inept. They treated the wound and sent her home 2 or 3 times.
       She wound up going to a facility about 200 miles away on her daughters urging. They admitted her to a hospital the day she came in and she was there for 2 1/2 weeks. Then bedridden for another 3.
    You're debating "quality of care". The thread is about affordability. I've had no problem with my insurance being accepted. It may be because I'm in a large urban area.

    And if you look, you'll note the USA ranks well down the list for medical tourism.
      Well, if it’s about affordability the US isn’t in the tourism ranking is it? 
       But, if you are like me, I will allow for cheaper treatment through VA or Medicare up until the point they cannot adequately serve my needs. I would pay out of pocket if needed.

        Speaking of; Soda, I’ve heard that you don’t want to jump on paying incurred bills too fast, it appears that they may figure you are a cash cow ready to be bled along with the patient.
         But I haven’t checked the data on that, it just appears that way to me.  😜
    we have contact information with two medicaid/medicare attorneys and we are going to set up consultations with both of them.  Spend a little to hopefully save a lot. 
    Definitely talk to them, you don't want anything in your mom's name that does not have to be. I went through this with my mother years ago and a good attorney is worth the cash. 


    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,708 AG
    dave44 said:
    Are they still willing to pay more and come to the US for treatment?

        If so, why?
    Same reason billionaires get better treatment than you do. They can afford it. They come here looking for the best in their field and pay a lot for it. The middle income and upper middle income ain't coming here for treatment, it is the wealthy where cost is no abject. Our middle income and upper income do go to other coutnries for care. I know several people who went to Costa rico for non insurance covered surgeries and said the cost of plane fare, hotels, and medical was cheaper than having it done here. they got a free vacation and treatment for less than treatment here.

    Recently the big guy got Covid, i read his treatment would have cost you or me $600,000 out of pocket since the drugs were not covered by any insurance. You ain't getting that treatment if you get sick with Covid and end up in the hospital. you get a ventilator, the approved drugs and hope for the best. that is unless you fork over $600,000 in cash, 

    You got the cash, you cvan get the best treatment int he world here. The wealthy will go where the best doctors are at since they afford it. We are discussing what the majority of us do.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • jetmechjetmech On the coastPosts: 903 Officer
    A lot of people forget what the difference is between healthcare and Health Insurance. 
     Say what you want, we have the best health care in the world. 
     Anyone here remember “exploratory surgery”??
     Any one remember how many days or weeks a patient stayed in the hospital after open heart surgery?
     A appendectomy is now considered routine surgery. 
     
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 9,952 Admiral
    jetmech said:

     Say what you want, we have the best health care in the world. 
     
     
    I think that is debatable.  
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
  • jetmechjetmech On the coastPosts: 903 Officer
    There is a helluva lot of people alive today because of it. And I bet you know several??
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 15,738 AG
    cadman said:
    If you have a family member with assets, you need to talk to an elederly attorney before they get into a long term care facility, they can help move assets around to protect them while insuring the elderly get the care they need, 

    Bills do die with you unless you have assets to sell in the estate, why an attorney is important. 

    the one area where our system really does fail is the long term care of the elderly. Unless you are very rich or very poor, you will go broke getting long term care.

    Last thing for the younger people. Save your kids this heartache and get long term care insurance now that will pay the bills in old age, 
    My understanding is they can go back up to 5 years and look at your assets so the idea of hiding assets is possible, but not quite as likely as people think.   
    You can't pet a dead dog back to life 
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 15,434 Moderator
    mplspug said:
    mplspug said:

    There are still some downsides to the health-care systems of these countries, but they are generally considered better than that of the United States.

    Seems like the article is admittedly missing something in order for us to make a real judgment.
    Click on "better than".
    I did.  Didn't really say what the downsides were.
    Try here......

    https://vittana.org/19-pros-and-cons-of-german-healthcare-system





    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • stc1993stc1993 Albany, GA Carrabelle, FLPosts: 8,946 Admiral
    My wife spent 1 day in the hospital after double bypass surgery,

    This was before stents she had angioplasty a couple of times before that.
  • gogittumgogittum SW New MexicoPosts: 2,209 Captain
    I think a large part of the problem is the insane prices charged for some treatments/services.

    When my uncle moved into an assisted care facility, he paid almost $3,000 a month for a tiny 1 bedroom apt with minimal services and 2 meals a day.  Granted, it was a nice and newer facility but if rented without that 2 meals a day, it would've gone for maybe $1,000 - $1,300.  His girlfriend was in a "bit" nicer facility and paid over $3,500.  What awful thieves and what a racket.

    As has been said, those places are set up to bleed you dry.  Attitudes of the "caregivers" are often very bad, abusive and contemptuous.  When my step-dad was in the hospice for his final 3 weeks of life in 2002, I had a hostile nose to nose with a young 20-something "caregiver" about his attitude toward my dad.  It got a bit loud, but he did ease off when he saw that dad wasn't completely alone and I was watching him.

    For myself, I have serious and painful Spinal Stenosis that's finally ended my hiking.  For several years I had periodic shots in my back to ease the pain - facet joint medial something or other that required a visit to the OR in local hospital.  He gave a shot to each of 3 places - a steroid with a painkiller.  Going thru the detailed bill later, I saw where hospital charged $1,200 for each of those shots.  Sonofab.i.t.c.h.  20 minutes on the table was over $10,000.  Each time.  I do realize the hospital has serious overhead, but c'mon.

    Checking with some specialty outfits in Phoenix and elsewhere - the ones who advertise on tv - and sending them the CD of my spinal MRI, it would appear that I need a Laminectomy (??) or Spinal Decompression (??) at 2 and maybe 3 vertebra - courtesy of my years in the woods with a chainsaw.  OK, fine, minimally invasive laparoscopic (??) surgery would apparently take about 2 hours.  I won't permit open back surgery.  I think I'm correct or close on the details.

    I was quoted $80,000 for that surgery by the outfit in Phoenix.  Migawd ! ! !  For 2 hours work ??  Pretty good hourly rate for that boy, don'tcha think ??
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 15,738 AG
    just FYI when my grandfather passed away the nursing home went after what was left of his estate...about 80 thousand dollars.   My mother, being a Christian woman paid his debts despite my protests.  I know that when someone dies their debt dies with them. But she wanted to make sure his name wasn't associated with leaving outstanding debt.   There are still people of conscience still out there.    
    You can't pet a dead dog back to life 
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 9,952 Admiral
    edited November 2020 #43
    jetmech said:
    There is a helluva lot of people alive today because of it. And I bet you know several??
    This is true with dozens of other countries.  You didn't state we had good Healthcare but said we are the best.  What is the goalpost?
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 14,837 AG
    mplspug said:
    mplspug said:

    There are still some downsides to the health-care systems of these countries, but they are generally considered better than that of the United States.

    Seems like the article is admittedly missing something in order for us to make a real judgment.
    Click on "better than".
    I did.  Didn't really say what the downsides were.
    Try here......

    https://vittana.org/19-pros-and-cons-of-german-healthcare-system




    This is one I like
    2. Doctors do not make a lot of money in this healthcare system

    This is why you see a lot of foreign doctors here.  I like that we can attract the best and brightest. 
    Just dropping grenades in OT
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 28,062 AG
    cadman said:
    If you have a family member with assets, you need to talk to an elederly attorney before they get into a long term care facility, they can help move assets around to protect them while insuring the elderly get the care they need, 

    Bills do die with you unless you have assets to sell in the estate, why an attorney is important. 

    the one area where our system really does fail is the long term care of the elderly. Unless you are very rich or very poor, you will go broke getting long term care.

    Last thing for the younger people. Save your kids this heartache and get long term care insurance now that will pay the bills in old age, 
    My understanding is they can go back up to 5 years and look at your assets so the idea of hiding assets is possible, but not quite as likely as people think.   
    That's what her attorney told her. 
    Vote for the other candidate
  • jetmechjetmech On the coastPosts: 903 Officer
    kellercl said:
    jetmech said:
    There is a helluva lot of people alive today because of it. And I bet you know several??
    This is true with dozens of other countries.  You didn't state we had good Healthcare but said we are the best.  What is the goalpost?
    The ball is in your court.  
     Dozens?? I will assume that the next time you need some major medical treatment Bolivia is your destination?? :#
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 15,434 Moderator
    jetmech said:
    kellercl said:
    jetmech said:
    There is a helluva lot of people alive today because of it. And I bet you know several??
    This is true with dozens of other countries.  You didn't state we had good Healthcare but said we are the best.  What is the goalpost?
    The ball is in your court.  
     Dozens?? I will assume that the next time you need some major medical treatment Bolivia is your destination?? :#

    Probably not but there are 9 countries in the world where people go for med care before choosing the US.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,708 AG
    edited November 2020 #48
    cadman said:
    If you have a family member with assets, you need to talk to an elederly attorney before they get into a long term care facility, they can help move assets around to protect them while insuring the elderly get the care they need, 

    Bills do die with you unless you have assets to sell in the estate, why an attorney is important. 

    the one area where our system really does fail is the long term care of the elderly. Unless you are very rich or very poor, you will go broke getting long term care.

    Last thing for the younger people. Save your kids this heartache and get long term care insurance now that will pay the bills in old age, 
    My understanding is they can go back up to 5 years and look at your assets so the idea of hiding assets is possible, but not quite as likely as people think.   
    That is why I said before they go to a long term faciltiy. The idea is to plan years ahead and not at the last minute.  Maybe I was not clear on that. People should start planning in their early 60s where the assets will go and move them. 


    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 15,738 AG
    cadman said:
    cadman said:
    If you have a family member with assets, you need to talk to an elederly attorney before they get into a long term care facility, they can help move assets around to protect them while insuring the elderly get the care they need, 

    Bills do die with you unless you have assets to sell in the estate, why an attorney is important. 

    the one area where our system really does fail is the long term care of the elderly. Unless you are very rich or very poor, you will go broke getting long term care.

    Last thing for the younger people. Save your kids this heartache and get long term care insurance now that will pay the bills in old age, 
    My understanding is they can go back up to 5 years and look at your assets so the idea of hiding assets is possible, but not quite as likely as people think.   
    That is why I said before they go to a long term faciltiy. The idea is to plan years ahead and not at the last minute. 
    I wish we had that opportunity.  But nobody knew Dad was going to die this year.   And even if i did, i couldn't have convinced him to make any wholesale changes to what he was doing with his estate.   The girls had been asking him for years "dad what do you want us to do??"  His reply was always I'll take care of it.  Then he died.   And it never got taken care of.    He formulated a trust, but never put anything in it!    so it was just an empty shell.   
    You can't pet a dead dog back to life 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,708 AG
    just FYI when my grandfather passed away the nursing home went after what was left of his estate...about 80 thousand dollars.   My mother, being a Christian woman paid his debts despite my protests.  I know that when someone dies their debt dies with them. But she wanted to make sure his name wasn't associated with leaving outstanding debt.   There are still people of conscience still out there.    
    They can go after any asset in his name after he dies. The estate is liable for any debts owed, 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 15,738 AG
    cadman said:
    just FYI when my grandfather passed away the nursing home went after what was left of his estate...about 80 thousand dollars.   My mother, being a Christian woman paid his debts despite my protests.  I know that when someone dies their debt dies with them. But she wanted to make sure his name wasn't associated with leaving outstanding debt.   There are still people of conscience still out there.    
    They can go after any asset in his name after he dies. The estate is liable for any debts owed, 
    That's why moms isn't going to have **** in it.   It's all getting moved into the trust as we speak.  
    You can't pet a dead dog back to life 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,708 AG
    Still waitign on someone to tell me how we actually reduce healthcare costs withotu using some campaign slogan. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • King_MeKing_Me Delray Beach, FLPosts: 7,045 Admiral
    she won't qualify for Medicaid and these nursing homes tend to bleed you dry financially.    
    Our family is dealing with this ourselves with my father.  He's currently in a assisted living facility for his advance stage of Lewy Body dementia, the monthly bill is over $6K.  He's got a sizable brokerage account and its being drained quite fast now.  He doesn't qualify for Medicaid because of his assets.

    There's one thing I've learned about this system, enjoy your money while your young otherwise it will just go for your care.
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    Much of what we are told about our country is a lie.  
    Medical care
    Personal libery
    Standard of living vs taxation
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 15,738 AG
    cadman said:
    Still waitign on someone to tell me how we actually reduce healthcare costs withotu using some campaign slogan. 
    Take it away from Congress and make them do what we do.  
    You can't pet a dead dog back to life 
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    This^

    Also, eradicate lobbying.  Only rely on individual, personal votes.  Eliminate PACs. Start hanging politicians who are caught selling out. Term limits.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,708 AG
    cadman said:
    Still waitign on someone to tell me how we actually reduce healthcare costs withotu using some campaign slogan. 
    Take it away from Congress and make them do what we do.  
    How will that help reduce costs? Do you expect government to control what doctors and healthcare professionals get paid? Do I understand this to mean you want government care for all? Please explain. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    Start with controlling what insurance companies get paid.  
    They are the crux of the problem.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 15,738 AG
    cadman said:
    cadman said:
    Still waitign on someone to tell me how we actually reduce healthcare costs withotu using some campaign slogan. 
    Take it away from Congress and make them do what we do.  
    How will that help reduce costs? Do you expect government to control what doctors and healthcare professionals get paid? Do I understand this to mean you want government care for all? Please explain. 
    I want people who write the laws governing our healthcare system to have to USE our healthcare system.   They get free government healthcare, while we are stuck with HMOs and deductibles and "your plan doesnt' cover that HIDA scan, so it's $1200 out of pocket (I didn't get the scan)"    
    You want the system to change, make the people running it play by it's rules  
    You can't pet a dead dog back to life 
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 14,837 AG
    Start with controlling what insurance companies get paid.  
    They are the crux of the problem.
    You should boycott them then. 
    Just dropping grenades in OT
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,708 AG
    edited November 2020 #61
    Start with controlling what insurance companies get paid.  
    They are the crux of the problem.
    The government already does. As I said earlier,  health insurance companies currently must spend 80% of the premium on healthcare. Most spend between 80% and 85% on healthcare. The net profits for insurance companies are below 5%. 

    The lowest cost for overhead to administer claims is the government at 10%. 

    But glad to know you want government control of insurance companies. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

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