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Economic armageddon coming this fall

Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,532 AG
United Airlines just served notice to 36,000 front line employees that they will likely get laid off Oct 1st.  15000+ Flight attendents.  While that seems low to many, that is the tip of the economic iceberg because those jobs represent millions of other jobs.

If you think shutting down the economy was worth it you were foolish. If you think it is a good idea to continue to scare people about this low risk virus, then you no better than the conspiracy nuts.
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Replies

  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 8,593 Moderator
    It wasn't unexpected.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • bocapup1bocapup1 Posts: 1,170 Officer
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    edited July 8 #4
    Oh I think it is coming and it will be fierce.  We haven't been hit yet.  I still worry about schools and teachers as well.  According to some of my relatives hospitals will be looking at layoffs as well.

    I was always the middle person who believed both:

    a) the virus is real, it will cost lives and it isn't a hox

    and

    b) we do not have the systems nor the infrastructure for long term shut downs

    It is why I repeatedly asked the 'other' side what their solutions were.  Granted it was nothing but crickets because nobody has answers. 

    Anybody who thinks the virus isn't serious is wrong.  Anybody who thinks we are not going to be hit hard economically is wrong.  In short both sides were wrong from the start.    


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • anglerplusanglerplus MiccoPosts: 652 Officer
    edited July 8 #5
    Cant be true, You must be a conspiracy theorist according to Cadman. 
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 6,259 Admiral
    edited July 8 #6
    United Airlines just served notice to 36,000 front line employees that they will likely get laid off Oct 1st.  15000+ Flight attendents.  While that seems low to many, that is the tip of the economic iceberg because those jobs represent millions of other jobs.

    If you think shutting down the economy was worth it you were foolish. If you think it is a good idea to continue to scare people about this low risk virus, then you no better than the conspiracy nuts.
    Tough choices... Didn't you already get infected? It's very possible that you're no longer at risk of serious illness. Do you know anyone who works in healthcare?
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 5,808 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    Oh I think it is coming and it will be fierce.  We haven't been hit yet.  I still worry about schools and teachers as well.  According to some of my relatives hospitals will be looking at layoffs as well.

    I was always the middle person who believed both:

    a) the virus is real, it will cost lives and it isn't a hox

    and

    b) we do not have the systems nor the infrastructure for long term shut downs

    It is why I repeatedly asked the 'other' side what their solutions were.  Granted it was nothing but crickets because nobody has answers. 

    Anybody who thinks the virus isn't serious is wrong.  Anybody who thinks we are not going to be hit hard economically is wrong.  In short both sides were wrong from the start.    
    I think most level headed educated/ intelligent people think this way, regardless of political affiliation 
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    Oh I think it is coming and it will be fierce.  We haven't been hit yet.  I still worry about schools and teachers as well.  According to some of my relatives hospitals will be looking at layoffs as well.

    I was always the middle person who believed both:

    a) the virus is real, it will cost lives and it isn't a hox

    and

    b) we do not have the systems nor the infrastructure for long term shut downs

    It is why I repeatedly asked the 'other' side what their solutions were.  Granted it was nothing but crickets because nobody has answers. 

    Anybody who thinks the virus isn't serious is wrong.  Anybody who thinks we are not going to be hit hard economically is wrong.  In short both sides were wrong from the start.    
    I think most level headed educated/ intelligent people think this way, regardless of political affiliation 
    Agreed.  So what, 3% of the population?  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 5,808 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    kellercl said:
    Oh I think it is coming and it will be fierce.  We haven't been hit yet.  I still worry about schools and teachers as well.  According to some of my relatives hospitals will be looking at layoffs as well.

    I was always the middle person who believed both:

    a) the virus is real, it will cost lives and it isn't a hox

    and

    b) we do not have the systems nor the infrastructure for long term shut downs

    It is why I repeatedly asked the 'other' side what their solutions were.  Granted it was nothing but crickets because nobody has answers. 

    Anybody who thinks the virus isn't serious is wrong.  Anybody who thinks we are not going to be hit hard economically is wrong.  In short both sides were wrong from the start.    
    I think most level headed educated/ intelligent people think this way, regardless of political affiliation 
    Agreed.  So what, 3% of the population?  
    Wow, generous 
  • Bimini_TwistedBimini_Twisted TampaPosts: 2,057 Captain
    kellercl said:
    Oh I think it is coming and it will be fierce.  We haven't been hit yet.  I still worry about schools and teachers as well.  According to some of my relatives hospitals will be looking at layoffs as well.

    I was always the middle person who believed both:

    a) the virus is real, it will cost lives and it isn't a hox

    and

    b) we do not have the systems nor the infrastructure for long term shut downs

    It is why I repeatedly asked the 'other' side what their solutions were.  Granted it was nothing but crickets because nobody has answers. 

    Anybody who thinks the virus isn't serious is wrong.  Anybody who thinks we are not going to be hit hard economically is wrong.  In short both sides were wrong from the start.    
    I think most level headed educated/ intelligent people think this way, regardless of political affiliation 
    I agree, so now the question is what's to do to ameliorate the situation?

    Bail out certain industries, cash to the little guy, New Deal type program, print long term bonds like funding a war?
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    kellercl said:
    Oh I think it is coming and it will be fierce.  We haven't been hit yet.  I still worry about schools and teachers as well.  According to some of my relatives hospitals will be looking at layoffs as well.

    I was always the middle person who believed both:

    a) the virus is real, it will cost lives and it isn't a hox

    and

    b) we do not have the systems nor the infrastructure for long term shut downs

    It is why I repeatedly asked the 'other' side what their solutions were.  Granted it was nothing but crickets because nobody has answers. 

    Anybody who thinks the virus isn't serious is wrong.  Anybody who thinks we are not going to be hit hard economically is wrong.  In short both sides were wrong from the start.    
    I think most level headed educated/ intelligent people think this way, regardless of political affiliation 
    Agreed.  So what, 3% of the population?  
    Wow, generous 
    Lol, well played sir.  Well played.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • restlessnativerestlessnative Posts: 2,349 Captain
    edited July 8 #12
    That’s probably as close to being a 1%er as I’ll ever be!
  • anglerplusanglerplus MiccoPosts: 652 Officer
    kellercl said:
    Oh I think it is coming and it will be fierce.  We haven't been hit yet.  I still worry about schools and teachers as well.  According to some of my relatives hospitals will be looking at layoffs as well.

    I was always the middle person who believed both:

    a) the virus is real, it will cost lives and it isn't a hox

    and

    b) we do not have the systems nor the infrastructure for long term shut downs

    It is why I repeatedly asked the 'other' side what their solutions were.  Granted it was nothing but crickets because nobody has answers. 

    Anybody who thinks the virus isn't serious is wrong.  Anybody who thinks we are not going to be hit hard economically is wrong.  In short both sides were wrong from the start.    
    I think most level headed educated/ intelligent people think this way, regardless of political affiliation 
    I agree, so now the question is what's to do to ameliorate the situation?

    Bail out certain industries, cash to the little guy, New Deal type program, print long term bonds like funding a war?
    The obvious answer is to throw more taxpayer money at it. 
    Dont worry, we can always print more 
  • Bimini_TwistedBimini_Twisted TampaPosts: 2,057 Captain
    kellercl said:
    Oh I think it is coming and it will be fierce.  We haven't been hit yet.  I still worry about schools and teachers as well.  According to some of my relatives hospitals will be looking at layoffs as well.

    I was always the middle person who believed both:

    a) the virus is real, it will cost lives and it isn't a hox

    and

    b) we do not have the systems nor the infrastructure for long term shut downs

    It is why I repeatedly asked the 'other' side what their solutions were.  Granted it was nothing but crickets because nobody has answers. 

    Anybody who thinks the virus isn't serious is wrong.  Anybody who thinks we are not going to be hit hard economically is wrong.  In short both sides were wrong from the start.    
    I think most level headed educated/ intelligent people think this way, regardless of political affiliation 
    I agree, so now the question is what's to do to ameliorate the situation?

    Bail out certain industries, cash to the little guy, New Deal type program, print long term bonds like funding a war?
    The obvious answer is to throw more taxpayer money at it. 
    Dont worry, we can always print more 
    I guess do nothing and watch it all burn is an option too.
  • anglerplusanglerplus MiccoPosts: 652 Officer
    There is a balance in there, but balance has been lost lately  
  • Bimini_TwistedBimini_Twisted TampaPosts: 2,057 Captain
    There is a balance in there, but balance has been lost lately  
    Good, we agree that there's a balance, so what does that look like?

    Of course I lean towards bailing out the little guy, and a trickle up model. As well as a massive New Deal type program targeted towards the sectors most affected. (travel, hotels, plane building, etc...)

    This could be partially funded with long term bonds like wars were previously funded 
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    edited July 8 #17
    I'm not a fan of bailouts.  I still really haven't spent mine.  What is the point of having money if one can't really do anything?  

    Masks are a good idea, it can't hurt anybody and only has the ability to help.

    I also think specific demographics are demonstrating the ability to handle the virus, with some rare exceptions.  Let those who are likely to be fine continue life as is, holding up the country as best as they can.  Certainly it has risks, but life has risks.  I put myself in the category as somebody who is high likely to handle the virus just fine.  I would also argue the virus hurts those in poor shape, perhaps this country can actually start teaching proper health to the masses?  Part of my annoyance is we know the virus hurts unhealthy people and this country is the most unhealthy in the world..  has anybody considered the reason we are getting ripped is because of our poor health?  Just saying.  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • anglerplusanglerplus MiccoPosts: 652 Officer
    Open businesses up as possible, not keep them closed out of fear. Some parts of the country have little viral cases. Open them up. The bond idea isn't a bad one. 
    Money lent out, needs repaid, either in monetary form or in services/labor donated to their local communities. No more free money to anyone. That is doomed to fail. 
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    Open businesses up as possible, not keep them closed out of fear. Some parts of the country have little viral cases. Open them up. The bond idea isn't a bad one. 
    Money lent out, needs repaid, either in monetary form or in services/labor donated to their local communities. No more free money to anyone. That is doomed to fail. 
    Another fair point.  Some parts of the country aren't being hit, why lock them down?  Where I live 0.6% of the population has been confirmed with Covid.  Meanwhile 0.009% have died....  perhaps we shouldn't be treated as though we are Florida?  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 8,927 Admiral
    Why is it safe for my kid to be in school but not safe for Paul Manafort to be in prison
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    Why is it safe for my kid to be in school but not safe for Paul Manafort to be in prison
    Are you asking me?  Because I don't give a **** about Paul.  Feel free to put him in prison today.  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • MikeGonzMikeGonz South BahiaPosts: 346 Deckhand
    Why is it safe for my kid to be in school but not safe for Paul Manafort to be in prison
    you should ask Gov Cuomo, who released thousands of felons.
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,293 Captain
    Our Federal government is already bankrupt. The Feds have borrowed and spent without consequence for decades. We don’t have one penny more for massive bailouts, stimulus, or social programs. The more we spend now, the harder the dollar is going to crash, and that crash will come sooner rather than later in all likelihood. Then it will be economic Mad Max after that. 

    A virus like this cannot be contained. Efforts to contain it are futile. The best we can do is slow it down, the methods by which are what have wrecked the economy.

    We’re starting to reap a fraction of what we have sown, and there isn’t a thing we can do about it. Our efforts to fix all of this insanity that surrounds and infests this broken country amounts to just deeper levels of insanity. A heaping monument of stink to the arrogance of man. 

    I’m good with it to the extent I have peace with the notion this insane world isn’t my home and I’m just passing through, a stranger in a strange land. I don’t have to fret when the ship sinks. 

    I’m not on it. 

     


  • Bimini_TwistedBimini_Twisted TampaPosts: 2,057 Captain
    Fact is we live in a political world and doing nothing and watching idly as it all burns down now, though appealing to some, is not likely to happen.


  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    edited July 8 #25
    Fact is we live in a political world and doing nothing and watching idly as it all burns down now, though appealing to some, is not likely to happen.


    And that is fair.  However blaming a single person is wrong.  Local and State governments all have power to make their own decisions.  We don't have to sit and wait for federal intervention.    


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • Bimini_TwistedBimini_Twisted TampaPosts: 2,057 Captain
    edited July 8 #26
    kellercl said:
    Fact is we live in a political world and doing nothing and watching idly as it all burns down now, though appealing to some, is not likely to happen.


    And that is fair.  However blaming a single person is wrong.  Local and State governments all have power to make their own decisions.  We don't have to sit and wait for federal intervention.    
    I'm speaking specifically of financial relief that only the Federal Treasury and structure can provide. Most agree, even the fellow I blame, that there will be more stimulus, I'm asking what should that look like?  
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    edited July 8 #27
    kellercl said:
    Fact is we live in a political world and doing nothing and watching idly as it all burns down now, though appealing to some, is not likely to happen.


    And that is fair.  However blaming a single person is wrong.  Local and State governments all have power to make their own decisions.  We don't have to sit and wait for federal intervention.    
    I'm speaking specifically of financial relief that only the Federal Treasury and structure can provide. Most agree, even the fellow I blame, that there will be more stimulus, I'm asking what should that look like?  
    It shouldn't look like anything.  Bailouts are temporary and only dilutes buying power.  A short term fix that causes long term harm is stupid.  We would be better if all that bailout money went to fixing our healthcare system.

    We need to cut spending and raise taxes, you know actually have a balance budget like we did in the late 90s.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • Nick NikonNick Nikon Posts: 3,188 Captain

    Is it too late to invest in funeral stocks, and crematories?

    Has anyone been tracking that industry?

    Call your broker while he's still alive.


  • Bimini_TwistedBimini_Twisted TampaPosts: 2,057 Captain
    kellercl said:
    kellercl said:
    Fact is we live in a political world and doing nothing and watching idly as it all burns down now, though appealing to some, is not likely to happen.


    And that is fair.  However blaming a single person is wrong.  Local and State governments all have power to make their own decisions.  We don't have to sit and wait for federal intervention.    
    I'm speaking specifically of financial relief that only the Federal Treasury and structure can provide. Most agree, even the fellow I blame, that there will be more stimulus, I'm asking what should that look like?  
    It shouldn't look like anything.  Bailouts are temporary and only dilutes buying power.  A short term fix that causes long term harm is stupid.
    Yet we've financed wars and the military industrial complex for centuries using all sorts of mechanisms. 

    Like I said, bailouts are coming, whether you want it or not. Some are likely to come before the election, and a massive amount may come afterwards depending on the outcome. 

    IMHO, if nothing is done there will be no recovery and our resident nihilists would be proven right, albeit bankrupt.

    I'm in favor of a massive New Deal type program, targeted to those hurt the most, and paid for by long term bonds. 
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,042 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    kellercl said:
    Fact is we live in a political world and doing nothing and watching idly as it all burns down now, though appealing to some, is not likely to happen.


    And that is fair.  However blaming a single person is wrong.  Local and State governments all have power to make their own decisions.  We don't have to sit and wait for federal intervention.    
    I'm speaking specifically of financial relief that only the Federal Treasury and structure can provide. Most agree, even the fellow I blame, that there will be more stimulus, I'm asking what should that look like?  
    It shouldn't look like anything.  Bailouts are temporary and only dilutes buying power.  A short term fix that causes long term harm is stupid.
    Yet we've financed wars and the military industrial complex for centuries using all sorts of mechanisms. 

    Completely irrelevant.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  If your wife cheats on you, is the fix to cheat back?  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • anglerplusanglerplus MiccoPosts: 652 Officer
    Just don’t let any foreign interests or any corporations buy the bonds. Or better yet, let people choose to cut a check to the irs or get a refund vs investing it back into this countries health and vitality. Couple that with removing pork barrel projects, and you’ll really have something. 

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