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The Effect of Covid-19 on Boat Captains Everywhere in All Lines of Mariners Businesses

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  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    ANUMBER1 said:
    I see you didn't laud the true commercial fishermen who are REAL essential workers (providing food).
    My opinion the whole time is guides should have been shut down as you produce NOTHING and promote the spread of covid-19 by bringing in tourists from out of Florida while practicing poor hygiene onboard all in the name of padding your wallet.

    Here is a list of "essential" workers from homeland security. Not only this, the DOI or USFWS also agreed and said that we can continue to operate a business on their land/water. Like I said before the governor one, encouraged fishing, two, some guides keep fish. So if someone were to want to go fishing and they did not own a boat then they would have to hire a captain with legal credentials. My credentials are "Merchant Mariner". We cleared this with Coast Guard and our insurance companies for legal purposes. Unlike commercial fisherman we do have a professional license to carry passengers. Where as you do not, or most do not.

    Three this video was meant for anyone in the water boating world who makes a living out of it.  Which included you but now I am rethinking that because you have so much hate in you towards guides and recreational fishermen in general, or us "sporties". LOL

    Fishing guides are not Maritime transportation workers. Commercial fishermen, like farmers are recognized as essential workers. While, I don't like to see anyone out of work, your argument falls short.

    The USFWS told us that if at any time they felt we are no longer allowed to conduct business on the lands they would notify us immediately. As of today this is who they to allow on their property to do business:


  • flagoldflagold AbbevillePosts: 619 Officer

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  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 12,095 AG
    **** dude, your spun up worse then a driedel
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    **** dude, your spun up worse then a driedel

    It is not that it is the BS and the hypocritical criteria that runs on here. I am fine. I find a lot on here are straight up A**h*les. Some hide behind a keyboard and run thier keyboard mouths but never truly show up when asked things.
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 9,674 Admiral
    yes we are, we have and hold United States Merchant Mariner Credentials. You can see the top of mine issued by the USCG at the national maritime center under Homeland Security. The coast guard says that the license gives us the power to use it in several different ways, not just as a fishing guide, but to be able to carry people in a "for hire" manner. They said that a mariner is someone who works on the water or on a  ship or boat, then with this license uses it in a professional way. They also said we do transport passengers in a sense. Here is a maritime definition:

    mariner. A mariner is someone who works on a boat or ship. A lobsterman who works alone on a small boat is a mariner, and so is the captain of an enormous cargo ship. Mariner is a somewhat old-fashioned word for a sailor or seafarer, a person who spends most of their working life on some kind of ocean vessel.

    We had to have this cleared up for legal matters and insurance reasons when the stay at home order went into effect. Where I do my charters at are on a National Park and Wildlife Refuge, inside of NASA land. Under the department of interior and the USFWS. So my insurance policy lists the US Federal Government as an additional insured. So the park, NASA and refuge wanted to make sure we could legally be out there under Homeland Securities directives and make sure the policy was valid. So they said yes, we do fall under essential workers due to our credentials. So does FWC.


    Just because your licensed to do something, if you are not actually doing it than so what. If I have a CDL but am not actively driving a commercial vehicle transporting goods or people than it means nothing. 
    Taking people fishing is not essential.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,889 Admiral
    yes we are, we have and hold United States Merchant Mariner Credentials. You can see the top of mine issued by the USCG at the national maritime center under Homeland Security. The coast guard says that the license gives us the power to use it in several different ways, not just as a fishing guide, but to be able to carry people in a "for hire" manner. They said that a mariner is someone who works on the water or on a  ship or boat, then with this license uses it in a professional way. They also said we do transport passengers in a sense. Here is a maritime definition:

    mariner. A mariner is someone who works on a boat or ship. A lobsterman who works alone on a small boat is a mariner, and so is the captain of an enormous cargo ship. Mariner is a somewhat old-fashioned word for a sailor or seafarer, a person who spends most of their working life on some kind of ocean vessel.

    We had to have this cleared up for legal matters and insurance reasons when the stay at home order went into effect. Where I do my charters at are on a National Park and Wildlife Refuge, inside of NASA land. Under the department of interior and the USFWS. So my insurance policy lists the US Federal Government as an additional insured. So the park, NASA and refuge wanted to make sure we could legally be out there under Homeland Securities directives and make sure the policy was valid. So they said yes, we do fall under essential workers due to our credentials. So does FWC.


    Just because your licensed to do something, if you are not actually doing it than so what. If I have a CDL but am not actively driving a commercial vehicle transporting goods or people than it means nothing. 
    Taking people fishing is not essential.
    Interesting position to take from someone living in a state that relies on tourism,

  • sailfish2sailfish2 Posts: 4,319 Captain
    1. aint no grass in the lagoon
    2. Looks like you took the second film with a potato.
    Hoping for better luck next time...... and got it.

    WINNING!
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,304 AG
    **** dude, your spun up worse then a driedel

    It is not that it is the BS and the hypocritical criteria that runs on here. I am fine. I find a lot on here are straight up A**h*les. Some hide behind a keyboard and run thier keyboard mouths but never truly show up when asked things.
    I get over to your neck of the woods from time to time.
    I'll let you know when.

    I have have much respect for the real guides, actually call a few friends.
    But when one calls for restrictions purely for personal profit I just call BS.

    BTW my stone crab claws go to Publix and Bonefish Grill among other places.
    When I grouper fished that went to Publix and other local restaurants.

    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,304 AG
    I shut my business down for a month to help flatten the curve.
    Yes, the market did bottom out but could have kept going and froze my product for better times.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    ANUMBER1 said:
    I shut my business down for a month to help flatten the curve.
    Yes, the market did bottom out but could have kept going and froze my product for better times.

    The last charter I did was on March 15th, 2020. I had 41 cancellations now through July. People calling and say they are not bringing there family here until a few years when it calms down. If people think I am in this for me, they are just uneducated. So I too have flattened the curve. Now with that said a few local guides here have been doing charters every day. The ones who just take locals out. They say they have to do what it takes to pay the bills. I have done well for myself so a few months with no trips fine. But to keep this up for an extended period, no way.

    I was saying that now that things are getting back going people should get out there and use local businesses. The problem here is the entire central Florida area is driven by tourism. If that fails then a lot of $$ will be lost for thousands and thousands of people throughout the area.Think of the amount of people hurt by this from Disney, Universal, Sea World just closed down.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    yes we are, we have and hold United States Merchant Mariner Credentials. You can see the top of mine issued by the USCG at the national maritime center under Homeland Security. The coast guard says that the license gives us the power to use it in several different ways, not just as a fishing guide, but to be able to carry people in a "for hire" manner. They said that a mariner is someone who works on the water or on a  ship or boat, then with this license uses it in a professional way. They also said we do transport passengers in a sense. Here is a maritime definition:

    mariner. A mariner is someone who works on a boat or ship. A lobsterman who works alone on a small boat is a mariner, and so is the captain of an enormous cargo ship. Mariner is a somewhat old-fashioned word for a sailor or seafarer, a person who spends most of their working life on some kind of ocean vessel.

    We had to have this cleared up for legal matters and insurance reasons when the stay at home order went into effect. Where I do my charters at are on a National Park and Wildlife Refuge, inside of NASA land. Under the department of interior and the USFWS. So my insurance policy lists the US Federal Government as an additional insured. So the park, NASA and refuge wanted to make sure we could legally be out there under Homeland Securities directives and make sure the policy was valid. So they said yes, we do fall under essential workers due to our credentials. So does FWC.


    Just because your licensed to do something, if you are not actually doing it than so what. If I have a CDL but am not actively driving a commercial vehicle transporting goods or people than it means nothing. 
    Taking people fishing is not essential.

    Like I told Art, I have not had a charter since March 15th, 2020. Nothing but cancellations. About 5% of local guides are doing charters daily. Locals mostly. My business was targeted towards mostly people here visiting. Tourism. And if that fails wait until it reaches others. The economic impact will be a nuke.

    May I ask what you do for a living? I noticed Spangler never answered me because I am curious on how a lot on here say I am not essential yet Lexus of Orlando is open for your car sales needs? or a realtor can still sell homes.  Really. A pawn shop is open because they say they do loans, like a bank. Now should someone call me and want to book, yes I will take it. Like the USCG said; It matters not what your doing with the license but that you have it and can use it when need be. Same thing with that pawn shop. They have a financial license so they use it. On top of all that a liquor store is very essential. Now that is icing on the cake. I find most people that say stay home no worries it will be ok we are all in this together are the ones that their jobs were not effected either at all or very little. I know of people who are going to never recover from this, and they did absolutely nothing wrong but are the by product of the aftermath.

    So hypothetical question for you.

    So let's say I  fish with Jason from Orlando, he msg me and said I ever want to fish for fun he would go. He meets me at the dock and we fish one day last week. Never met Jason before, let's say he is on this forum and we agree to go fishing as friends. Now the Governor and FWC has set rules up for this and has encouraged recreation fishing. So Jason and I fish all day for fun. That is ok? But now take that same day, and at the end of the day Jason hands me a dollar. Now you say it is wrong and not essential? So the exchange of that dollar is what makes your choice here? What if to Jason it is essential to him that he needs to get out on the water for a while, but does not own a  boat or know of  anyone to take him. So he must hire a guide to do this. Now if the governor said no recreational fishing that would be different.

    Also on a side note. When we spoke with FWC and asked them who is the final decision maker on what is essential and what is not essential  when it comes to the water. Their exact answer to me was this: "We will let each local government make that choice." That is why one area like Seminole County they closed the ramps. Or in New Smyrna Beach they said only Commercial Harvest, Fishing guides, and boat dealers can use their ramps. Why the Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge said yes to both Commercial and Fishing guides an use their ramps and land. SO each place said what was essential and what was not. Who am I to argue with them. Then the USCG said they decide the waters and they just want the proof of license you have.
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 9,674 Admiral
    I am retired. When I worked I was a Land Surveyor for many years and then a Civil Engineering Inspector. I also used to commercial fish when I was younger. I recreational "meat" fish now. As I said earlier, I do not have a problem with you guiding and making money. I hope you book customers every day. I just do not think that guiding recreational fishermen is or should be considered a essential service and I stand by that. Many other "non essential" folks are suffering also. Just hope that the Government opens things back up again and then hopefully you will be fine. 

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,248 AG
    It will be fine....all the wannabe guides will be back to flipping burgers at 5 guys and the talented guides with big followings...You know...the ones that the locals book * because they know they are the real deal*.....and not some goofus "insta-guide" with a skiff and some nifty pliers.

    The sharpshooters are going to come out of this and it will be a boom economy for them.  
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,738 Captain
    edited May 2020 #45


    The last charter I did was on March 15th, 2020. I had 41 cancellations now through July. People calling and say they are not bringing there family here until a few years when it calms down. If people think I am in this for me, they are just uneducated. So I too have flattened the curve. Now with that said a few local guides here have been doing charters every day. The ones who just take locals out. They say they have to do what it takes to pay the bills. I have done well for myself so a few months with no trips fine. But to keep this up for an extended period, no way.

    You didn't help flatten the curve by choice.  You got cancellations.  Then you take credit for flattening it... and before you can take another breath..  You then insinuate that the local guides, who in fact your actually jealous of, are blatantly disregarding things.  
    You're a piece of work.
    btw, why don't locals use your 'services' and keep you busy? lol 
    And just so we're clear.  You have a history of, and continue to, actively lobby and petition against the public's right to access a great and wonderful natural resource.  That is bad enough.  That you do it for personal gain and advantage, is beyond terrible.  That you do it for a living and profit.. well, let's just say I'm not fond of it.  I don't want to get banned again.
    That you do any of it under the veil of conservation or environmental protection, makes you a snake.
    It's something I won't ever forget about you. 
    So every time you come on with your transparent bs crap.  Rest assured.  I'll be here to reveal you for what you are.   Got it? 

    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    duckmanJR said:
    It will be fine....all the wannabe guides will be back to flipping burgers at 5 guys and the talented guides with big followings...You know...the ones that the locals book * because they know they are the real deal*.....and not some goofus "insta-guide" with a skiff and some nifty pliers.

    The sharpshooters are going to come out of this and it will be a boom economy for them.  

    I will be one that survives due to I have been at this almost 20 years, I rank almost number one for all kinds of search engine results, I produce a fun enjoyable charter and have a massive clientele base. Any normal year I do between 170 to 200 trips a year. I would say I target 75% tourism and 25% locals. Just may take some time for the world to get back to travel but I will be one of the originals.

    There are two sets of guides out here, at least in east central Florida. Ones who cater to tourism based charters and ones who target the locals. Now my website (s)  and business has been fine tuned over the years for an SEO of key words of things like "Fishing Near Disney" or "Flats Fishing Near Disney" or "Fishing Near Orlando" or "tarpon fishing close to Kissimmee". Things a person who is going on vacation here may type in Google and research.  I also do mostly practice catch and release, so clients that have no way to transport them back to Ohio or England or Germany or Montana don't want to keep fish any how. Some also do not feel the need to kill these sport fish and respect the value of them being released, both locals and tourist. 

    So the fishing guides who do not normally keep fish and practice catch and release tend to get the client that is staying at a hotel or resort or has traveled too far to cooler them home and cannot bring fish back. Hence the locals who want to bring fish home a few miles away tend to go with guides who keep fish. But I am not surprised you did not know that.

    Now see, I see where you were trying to go with that. I like the effort on your part. You stick to being a "wanna be keyboard warrior" and I will stick to a professional fishing guide. Oh and by the way it is funny how you mentioned pliers. Gerber just sent me a whole new set of pliers and scissors for their new saltwater series for me to review and give them feedback on. They are sweet  too! Good guess on your part.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,876 Captain
    edited May 2020 #47
    Maybe if Capt. Drew did some "cold calling" to the names on that last petition he was passing around to get others shut out of the lagoon.......he might find a taker. More than he'll likely find here anyway. ;)
    To even come on here and post he is looking for business......reminds me of something I learned by being told.....but sometimes others have to learn by living it.
    Tread lightly........the toes you step on today........may be connected to the butt you'll have to kiss tomorrow. :)
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 7,081 Admiral
    Wow
    Doesn't sound like you need any help to me....you'll be fine.
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    Maybe if Capt. Drew did some "cold calling" to the names on that last petition he was passing around to get others shut out of the lagoon.......he might find a taker. More than he'll likely find here anyway. ;)
    To even come on here and post he is looking for business......reminds me of something I learned by being told.....but sometimes others have to learn by living it.
    Tread lightly........the toes you step on today........may be connected to the butt you'll have to kiss tomorrow. :)

    First of all never asked to "shut down the lagoon". Get it straight.

    Second I came on here to speak for thousands of businesses who need help. Yes I may do well eventually but some wont. There a re no toes on here I should worry about.

    Also that petition was never made by me. We turned it over to the USFWS and they have now gotten FWC involved and are doing a new survey for the lagoon. Once FWC comes back with their answer the Refuge will do what they suggest.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    Wow
    Doesn't sound like you need any help to me....you'll be fine.

    I will be just fine. But the more I get calls for I can give them to other captains who don't. We are almost like a family and share a lot of trips. I did not come on here screaming for me, I asked to help "a lot" of businesses. Most of you twist things so much that it comes out like hamburger meat.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    edited May 2020 #51
    Wow
    Doesn't sound like you need any help to me....you'll be fine.

    I could name 10 guides who do over 250 trips a year. That is too many in my mind and takes the toll on your body. You have to think that if last year 75 million people came to Orlando and a small percentage wanted to fish. That is a lot of trips to go around. Even a half percent of that is 375,000 tourists wanting to fish and that is still a high number. Not enough guides to even cover that many going. I have one friend who guides, great angler and knows the waters like an old timer. However his website never ranks and never gets trips from the web. I give him probably  30 to 50 trips a year that I cannot take. That is 25k worth of work now he will loose because of all this going on now.  Or the calls I get for 4 5 or 6 people. I give them away. So that in itself is helping so many others. I just had a call yesterday for 6 people. I can at least give it to a guide who can use it. That is the trickle down effect I was talking about or part of it. For some on here to say me me me me, shame on you.

    Normally in March through May a lot of guides every where in the state book so far in advance that they turn down a lot of work. But then come hurricane season it drops off. Look at the guides in the keys this month. They are screwed and it sucks for them because they cannot even do a trip.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    edited May 2020 #52
    Maybe if Capt. Drew did some "cold calling" to the names on that last petition he was passing around to get others shut out of the lagoon.......he might find a taker. More than he'll likely find here anyway. ;)
    To even come on here and post he is looking for business......reminds me of something I learned by being told.....but sometimes others have to learn by living it.
    Tread lightly........the toes you step on today........may be connected to the butt you'll have to kiss tomorrow. :)

    "Cold Calling"=SPAM!
    Wow
    Doesn't sound like you need any help to me....you'll be fine.

    I could name 10 guides who do over 250 trips a year. That is too many in my mind and takes the toll on your body. You have to think that if last year 75 million people came to Orlando and a small percentage wanted to fish. That is a lot of trips to go around. Even a half percent of that is 375,000 tourists wanting to fish and that is still a high number. Not enough guides to even cover that many going. I have one friend who guides, great angler and knows the waters like an old timer. However his website never ranks and never gets trips from the web. I give him probably  30 to 50 trips a year that I cannot take. That is 25k worth of work now he will loose because of all this going on now.  Or the calls I get for 4 5 or 6 people. I give them away. So that in itself is helping so many others. I just had a call yesterday for 6 people. I can at least give it to a guide who can use it. That is the trickle down effect I was talking about or part of it. For some on here to say me me me me, shame on you.

    Normally in March through May a lot of guides every where in the state book so far in advance that they turn down a lot of work. But then come hurricane season it drops off. Look at the guides in the keys this month. They are screwed and it sucks for them because they cannot even do a trip.

    Read what I just wrote about it helps others too. I just feel some on here have a one track mind and do not look at the bigger picture.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,876 Captain

    Or remember this "true" commercial fisherman! LOL




    I'll see your one true commercial  fisherman and raise you a true legend of guides. Think his boat handling doesn't impact the precious lagoon? Maybe he was trying to spread out what little grass was left. What an example for others. :D


  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer

    Or remember this "true" commercial fisherman! LOL




    I'll see your one true commercial  fisherman and raise you a true legend of guides. Think his boat handling doesn't impact the precious lagoon? Maybe he was trying to spread out what little grass was left. What an example for others. :D



    No idea who this is or where it is located.  A little bit more info on this picture may be helpful. Could be a stock photo.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,876 Captain
    edited May 2020 #55
    Not surprised you wouldn't know who it is. Pretty sure he never mentored you.
    He lives in Mims so where do you think the photo was taken. ;)
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer
    Not surprised you wouldn't know who it is. Pretty sure he never mentored you.
    He lives in Mims so where do you think the photo was taken. ;)

    I cant see who that is in the picture, it is two inches  by two inches.  But if you are talking about Flip, then who knows about this photo. How do you know it was taken on the "Mosquito Lagoon"? How do you know it is not photo shopped? My question to you is a simple one. Did you take it?
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer

    Or remember this "true" commercial fisherman! LOL




    I'll see your one true commercial  fisherman and raise you a true legend of guides. Think his boat handling doesn't impact the precious lagoon? Maybe he was trying to spread out what little grass was left. What an example for others. :D



    No idea who this is or where it is located.  A little bit more info on this picture may be helpful. Could be a stock photo.

    The difference in the two are I actually witnessed one and the other you pulled of the web most likely. So hearsay then on your part.

    The other fact is the one I filmed was actually pursued by law enforcement for charges against him. After I originally put that video up years ago I got a call from federal agents asking me where this happened. They had me drop off the memory card and fill out a report. They went after him for destruction of grass inside a national park and some other charges. The photo you have is a stock photo maybe, still cannot clearly see who it is. Again tiny thumbnail picture. And no, flip did not mentor me but I know him.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,876 Captain
    There is one other difference..........the one you posted has risen no blood pressure here. The one I posted has your veins all popped out. :D
    Chill Dude.........I'm outa here.
  • Cavanaugh68Cavanaugh68 Posts: 533 Officer

    Or remember this "true" commercial fisherman! LOL




    I'll see your one true commercial  fisherman and raise you a true legend of guides. Think his boat handling doesn't impact the precious lagoon? Maybe he was trying to spread out what little grass was left. What an example for others. :D



    And no does not make it right, but Flip most likely did not do this over and over and over intentionally. I never said rec anglers are perfect. But you are taking the two way out of context. Until you know the exact parameters of the picture here and the facts behind it you really cannot say good or bad. Unless of course you were there.


  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,808 Captain
    ANUMBER1 said:
    I see you didn't laud the true commercial fishermen who are REAL essential workers (providing food).
    My opinion the whole time is guides should have been shut down as you produce NOTHING and promote the spread of covid-19 by bringing in tourists from out of Florida while practicing poor hygiene onboard all in the name of padding your wallet.

    Here is a list of "essential" workers from homeland security. Not only this, the DOI or USFWS also agreed and said that we can continue to operate a business on their land/water. Like I said before the governor one, encouraged fishing, two, some guides keep fish. So if someone were to want to go fishing and they did not own a boat then they would have to hire a captain with legal credentials. My credentials are "Merchant Mariner". We cleared this with Coast Guard and our insurance companies for legal purposes. Unlike commercial fisherman we do have a professional license to carry passengers. Where as you do not, or most do not.

    Three this video was meant for anyone in the water boating world who makes a living out of it.  Which included you but now I am rethinking that because you have so much hate in you towards guides and recreational fishermen in general, or us "sporties". LOL

    Fishing guides are not Maritime transportation workers. Commercial fishermen, like farmers are recognized as essential workers. While, I don't like to see anyone out of work, your argument falls short.
    Commercial fishermen are nothing like farmers. Period. They take a public resource, and sell it for personal gain. They don’t have to own, lease, rent, or otherwise pay for their “fields”. They don’t have to prepare fields, plant, fertilize, irrigate, or nurture the “crops” in any way. Just harvest it. And suppling the public with stone crab claws absolutely isn’t essential. 
  • captbonefishcaptbonefish UmatilaPosts: 902 Officer
    Grandpa is going to go full blown ballistic. 
This discussion has been closed.