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FWC broke it. Will they fix it?

osprey11osprey11 Posts: 1,326 Officer
20 out of 40 passes used on opening day at Guana.     Remember they used parking as the reason without mentioning in their report that other launches parking existed.   They forced this system on Guana, and it stinks.   So few places and they restrict access.   Fix it FWC you broke it!


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Replies

  • LimpitLimpit Gainesvlle, FLPosts: 11 Deckhand
    FWC is a joke,,,,,,
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,253 AG
    If you do not lead the charge at your home spot....nobody else will do it for you.... 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 565 Officer
    correction... FWC will lead the charge
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,253 AG
    OGBOHICA said:
    correction... FWC will lead the charge
    No...they won't....they will let the status quo be.....

    People can make the change...but you have to be a lot more than an internet whiner....takes work. 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,379 AG
    in my 30 years dealing with fishery issues.

    1. never go to guvment screaming about a problem and demanding a fix.
    The fix you get will be far more draconian than needed and may be unbearable.

    2. lightly suggest there MAY be a problem (takes time) and let them come to you (stakeholders) and ask for possible solutions.

    3. Have your ducks in a row for solutions as many stakeholders will be consulted, sensible request will be favored over emotional outbursts.  *

    * unless it's a political hot button like the bear hunt, then start again with #1.

    my .02
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • osprey11osprey11 Posts: 1,326 Officer
    You all are correct.   I tried the nice route when this was implemented.  All I could get was they actually increased participation.  At that point I realized I was tilting at windmills.   Makes me feel better to say I was right.  Childish maybe, but right none the less.   But if they are too stupid to see their mistake shame on them!   :)


  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 4,256 Captain
    Effectively define, discuss and reveal the specifics of the WMA issue
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • stc1993stc1993 Albany, GA Carrabelle, FLPosts: 8,946 Admiral
    I've seen duckman jr's posts over the yrs he puts time & work into the FWC meetings & tries to get things changed for the better.
    You can't complain if you don't go to meetings & let your voice heard.
  • osprey11osprey11 Posts: 1,326 Officer
    LOL  MEETINGS   MEETINGS.   They put in a crap quota, for no reason!   And I am at fault for not leaving work to give my 3 minutes of time.  PLEASE!   We are not all retired!!   Typical govt.   They break it and blame me for not fixing it.  


  • osprey11osprey11 Posts: 1,326 Officer

    FACT  20 of 40 passes used on OPENING DAY!!

    PAID on site employee already there to give out passes.  WHY NO WALK UP LINE?

    WHY no penalty or pos motivation to return permit.  I E   preference points?

    Why wasn't the other offsite parking areas not mentioned in Justins presentation?

    For years was told you can hunt but you cant park here it is full.  Could go to **** where there is ample parking.  

     AND why put a quota on a place that historically never hits capacity?


  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 565 Officer
    because "staff" needs to have enuff proposed restriction quarterly to keep the MYFWCC happy
  • zimmy4209zimmy4209 Ocala FloridaPosts: 1,378 Officer
    osprey11 said:

    FACT  20 of 40 passes used on OPENING DAY!!

    PAID on site employee already there to give out passes.  WHY NO WALK UP LINE?

    WHY no penalty or pos motivation to return permit.  I E   preference points?

    Why wasn't the other offsite parking areas not mentioned in Justins presentation?

    For years was told you can hunt but you cant park here it is full.  Could go to **** where there is ample parking.  

     AND why put a quota on a place that historically never hits capacity?

    Everything you brought up is spot on I just think that theres so many different places and everyone has different restrictions once something changes for better or worse it gets lost in the shuffle and they just cant keep on top of what's going on. I've been checked 3 times down here by fwc and everytime only asked for my license. 1 time I volunteered to show my specific  quota permit and he didnt even care. Other 2 times I never brought it up and they never asked. Technically I could have been hunting at that spot without even having quota permit and would have got away with it even after being stopped and needed to show hunting license 
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,963 Captain
    This topic has been discussed ad naseum. Local hunters are their own demise. People who didnt hunt guana werent the ones complaining.  Who in their right mind was clamoring to hunt guana that they needed to uproot and change the system to a quota? Nobody, not a freaking soul. It was those same people who hunted it before complained and got what they want. 

    Just like when I get more restrictions at home. I look in the mirror and at my fellow hunters who helped create the mess. I never asked for them but there are those that do. I bet my tune may change when someone shoots my window out or puts a pellet in my jaw but it hasn't happened yet.
  • osprey11osprey11 Posts: 1,326 Officer
    Well the Duck Commanders are gone.  Not enough birds to keep them interested.  Now just a group of friends who enjoyed the unused resource,  are now forced out by bureaucratic nonsense!


  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,963 Captain
    Thats the problem with permits. When its slow you cant go when the permit holders dont want to. 
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 4,532 Captain
    Planned obsolescence, one step at a time?
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,253 AG
    Nothing....is ever chiseled in stone.  I pushed hard and got the changes that people were asking for at TMG.

    And reel teal gave the 100% story. Nothing gets changed till some people complain about it. Add in that crash that happened and it just adds to the percieved need to make a change.

    Should they make changes at Guana...YES...they should.... But who will be "the tip of the spear"  ?? 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • osprey11osprey11 Posts: 1,326 Officer
    Reel Teal said:
    Thats the problem with permits. When its slow you cant go when the permit holders dont want to. 


    Already a paid quota attendant there.   Walk up line would be such an easy fix. 

    Planned obsolescence, one step at a time?    That is my thought exactly.  The FIX was in on quotas.  No question about it!


  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 565 Officer
    Its become like monthly speeding ticket quotas for FWC, find enuff regulations to enact or be demoted to daily emails red tide blasts
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 2,201 Captain
    From the beginning it was the parking situation that created the Quota changes at Guana….I agree, there could be some area with additional parking..but no one identified a suitable place....If there is a "check in person" at the ramp, there could be a WALK IN DRAW...or some sort of walk in program to cover the No Shows...However, again, the large number of people showing up for the Walk In Draw would over fill the parking lot....So that remains the dilemma...NOW...perhaps if we can get the PREFERRED WALKIN NUMBERS on an "overdraw" after the Regular Quota Permits are drawn by the Vendor, there will be a way to get more people in the marsh each hunt....Simply have the Vendor draw the 40 Regular Permits and then 20 more in numerical order as the Preferred Walk In Permit.....Those people with the Preferred Permits would be let in in order of the numbers following the check in of Regular Permits...
    That method would eliminates the crowds coming out hoping for a draw...as the only people with a chance are those with the 20 Overdraws....
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    Doesn't Gates Petroleum/Ponte Vedra Development have plans for that property?  Plans that are only temporarily (as always in FL) held up with dog-and-pony legal issues before the developers get the green light?  

    They always do.  

    In the long run, this quota thing will be moot.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 4,532 Captain
    Man, Newt, that sounds like a muddy mess....  Why not just open it up, let the guys shoot the place out, and move on? You don't even need a check station attendant. Just a resource officer doing random checks and keeping people a little honest. Start writing tickets to anyone in line before 0300 so that there is no camping out and other BS that has become too common.
  • Cast_N_BlastCast_N_Blast JaxPosts: 1,437 Officer
    Big Mak said:
    Man, Newt, that sounds like a muddy mess....  Why not just open it up, let the guys shoot the place out, and move on? You don't even need a check station attendant. Just a resource officer doing random checks and keeping people a little honest. Start writing tickets to anyone in line before 0300 so that there is no camping out and other BS that has become too common.
    Honestly the best plan I've heard on this issue. 
  • osprey11osprey11 Posts: 1,326 Officer
    N. Cook said:
    From the beginning it was the parking situation that created the Quota changes at Guana….I agree, there could be some area with additional parking..but no one identified a suitable place....If there is a "check in person" at the ramp, there could be a WALK IN DRAW...or some sort of walk in program to cover the No Shows...However, again, the large number of people showing up for the Walk In Draw would over fill the parking lot....So that remains the dilemma...NOW...perhaps if we can get the PREFERRED WALKIN NUMBERS on an "overdraw" after the Regular Quota Permits are drawn by the Vendor, there will be a way to get more people in the marsh each hunt....Simply have the Vendor draw the 40 Regular Permits and then 20 more in numerical order as the Preferred Walk In Permit.....Those people with the Preferred Permits would be let in in order of the numbers following the check in of Regular Permits...
    That method would eliminates the crowds coming out hoping for a draw...as the only people with a chance are those with the 20 Overdraws....


    It was people parking on A1A overnight that was the problem.   THE QUOTA DID NOTHING TO FIX THAT!  Lack of birds has   If tons of birds show up the quota holders still will show early to get spot in line.  Nothing solved.    The dam, Micklers on north end and private property have been used for years out there.   MYSTERIOUS they where not mentioned in report.   Also paid attendant already on site.  Why no walk up? Crowds there are none, place hit capacity 5 times in history.   And the Bio who put out proposal and didnt mention alternate parking got a promotion!  If only fix FWC can think of is more quota BS,  all hope is lost! 


  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    Make the cost of an unused permit less bearable.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 565 Officer
  • JaxQuackJaxQuack Posts: 101 Deckhand
    Doesn't Gates Petroleum/Ponte Vedra Development have plans for that property?  Plans that are only temporarily (as always in FL) held up with dog-and-pony legal issues before the developers get the green light?  

    They always do.  

    In the long run, this quota thing will be moot.

    There is a proposal to build houses on a  parcel of private property that lies within Guana.  Its currently on hold for 3 years, but it will show its face again for sure.
    osprey11 said:
    Well the Duck Commanders are gone.  Not enough birds to keep them interested.  Now just a group of friends who enjoyed the unused resource,  are now forced out by bureaucratic nonsense!


    I don't think permits are going away... my recommendation would be to make first split permits, and second phase FCFS.  It is sickening on wednesdays when I wing by the ramp on the way to work and there are 3-5 permits being used. 

    Lining up on A1A has drastically gone down.. Folks still get there 15-20 early, but def not the lines of old.   

  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    Yup, you better believe it will come back up.  And will until the developers/owners get what they want (paid for). 
    Just have to get the right legislators/appointees in place first.  As soon as the 1st housing goes in, they will complain of the noise and danger and violence and cruelty until it gets shut down completely.  

    At that point, the parking problem is solved!
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 2,201 Captain
    edited December 2019 #30
    No one likes Quotas less than I do....I do all I can to prevent them being imposed, and removing them if possible....Just spent an afternoon hunting on Dupuis WEA without a quota Permit....unheard of for decades until we worked on "adding hog (and small game) hunts with no quota permits"...Now we have three , three day hunts with no permits....Does not seem like a lot, but if you knew how it took over 5 years of advocacy work with the SFWMD to get those 9 days, you would know how difficult it can be getting places "open".  The problem at Guana is still the same as before.....the FWC and agencies do not want any parking on the road....period...It is considered a hazard.  Therefore, we have to develop a scheme that will increase the number of hunters, but not have people parking on the road...either to hunt, or wait for a 'drawing"....I put up a way to get more people on by using No Show spots...any other ideas are welcome...
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    Sounds like an opportunity.  
    Need to buy an old beat up bus and call it the PATOS!! PATOS!!!! WOO -WOOOOOO!!! painted on the side.
    Park and ride to the hunting park.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
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