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Deer Harvest Question

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  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 4,571 Captain
    bgeorge said:
    Big Mak said:
    Hey Spangler, are you saying it goes like this?

    Would you like to see more deer while you're hunting?
    Collective response: HE11 YES! 
    Result- More restrictive hunting regulations, loss of doe harvest opportunities, loss of hunting days, decreased bag limits, more often it's all of the above.

    Would you like to see  more and bigger horns to harvest? 
    Collective response: ABSOLUTELY!
    Result- Ridiculous antler criteria.

    Would you prefer a "quality" hunt with less pressure and more deer?
    Collective response: YOU BET!
    Result- fewer quotas on any given hunt, reduction of weekend hunt days, loss of first 9 days quota/open the remainder of the season, more pay to play areas and fees, maybe some loss of dog deer hunting..  often it's a combination of all of the above.

    Would you like to see better harvest data to meet the management goals you've previously decided were the best for you in earlier surveys? 
    Collective response: DARN STRAIGHT! IT'S ALL ABOUT ME! IT'S MY TURN TO FINALLY GET ME A DEER!
    Result- Tighter controls, more fees and special ops, tags n reports, antler regs, decreased doe harvest, and just plain fewer hunting opportunities... But above all, the same guys doing the harvesting, and the same guys NOT harvesting!

    Oh, and, one more question. Would you like to see a limited bear season in FL?
    Collective hunter response: SURE!
    Collective anti hunter response: NO WAY! WE WILL DECRY THIS AND RUIN YOUR LIFE, PROFESSIONALLY AND POLITICALLY. WE DON'T CARE WHAT THE SCIENCE SAYS!
    Result- Not on your life!


    Pretty good.  You put some effort in it.  Throw our west fl fishing in there with above management goals and above average populations and we get total closures.  Maybe a few more common folks need to start to step into the light and get behind a mic.  Bottom line buts in the seat matter and others are more committed to their cause.
    Funny you mention that, but the truth comes easy enough without much effort. I do agree with you though. I'll be riding with some biologists later this week to discuss habitat and improvements...  Actual field work rather than sitting on my **** in a building. Even sacrificing a pretty good local muzzleloader hunt to attend. Should be interesting to say the least.
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,652 Captain
    Problem is that they are on the bottom of the chain.  All to often we pay bad and as soon as you start getting one on board they are going somewhere else.  Every bit helps because a few may one day be in the top ranks.  While staff is not the ones making the final decisions they are the ones that put together the agenda for the commission.  If you can not get it on the list it is hard to get it done.  

    Commission mostly sides with staff but will stray from time to time.  What happens in the meetings is very important.  Presence matters.  
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,652 Captain
    I keep hearing that but I cant remember watching any live streams or attending and meetings where anyone spoke out against deer hunting and all these proposed regs..not 1x, not even at wrac meetings
    There were several but were the minority.  When doe days taken away I remember one who was devastated as he planed his annual vacation around it.  I also remember several who opposed the antler restrictions.  And when it came to bag limit I remember many who opposed the 3/2 and successfully got the commission to go to 5 no more than 2.  I do not member people being opposed to reporting more than concerned with feasibility in remote areas.

    I guess it is more vivid when you see it in color.
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 1,362 Officer
    bgeorge said:
    I keep hearing that but I cant remember watching any live streams or attending and meetings where anyone spoke out against deer hunting and all these proposed regs..not 1x, not even at wrac meetings
    There were several but were the minority.  When doe days taken away I remember one who was devastated as he planed his annual vacation around it.  I also remember several who opposed the antler restrictions.  And when it came to bag limit I remember many who opposed the 3/2 and successfully got the commission to go to 5 no more than 2.  I do not member people being opposed to reporting more than concerned with feasibility in remote areas.

    I guess it is more vivid when you see it in color.
    Problem being that the FWC meeting regular attendees seem to promote more rules and restrictions if not being the source of new rule ideas themselves. Maybe the masses may have seen the meetings and said the heck with going to meetings since the regulars (on first name basis with commissioners) touting they represent hunters just seem to like extra rules especially if it helps their business interests. I've even witnessed U bgeorge at the podium say you wish they'd have some sort of limit or tags for turkey hunting - I believe it was during commenting on tag and report agenda item. I know some good results happen due to our participation (e.g. preserving hunting albeit very limited in Stairsteps of Big C.) but off topic comments give FWC or Commissioners ideas that hurt some people eventually. My belief is that hunters favoring tight restrictions versus loose ones - hi bag limits versus low ones, no apr's versus having apr's, no limitsa on turkey ammunition versus #2 shot max -  are split right about down the middle 50/50. So when the restriction/rule lovers get their way (which seems often to me) they seriously irritate half of their fellow hunters every time - thus increasing hunter(s) apathy and abandoning hunting in Fla with it's myriad unending  overly restrictive and seriously questionable rules.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    If someone chooses to stay on the sidelines, how can they have any expectation of being heard?

    Nobody is limited in their ability to participate. Even if attendance to the various meetings isn’t possible due to work or other obligations, there are still ways to meaningfully participate. As an example, only a few ECC members actually go to any of the FWC meetings. The organization has quite a bit of influence though those few who do go to represent the organization which gives its members a significant voice in shaping policies that impact them. Same with UWFL. There are numerous other examples across the state. Participation won’t guarantee you always get what you want. Particularly if your view is in the minority or only impacts a small portion of the constituents being served. But it does guarantee that you are heard. Nobody in the entire process gets everything they want. Not you, not me, not the staff, or even the commissioners. As a whole though, things evolve to a better place with more involvement. 
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 4,265 Captain
    Lodging individual input to Commission members need not be only via personal meeting appearance ( unless one is positioning for eventual lawsuit).
    A batch of UPS overnight deliveries works.
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,652 Captain
    gladesman said:
    bgeorge said:
    I keep hearing that but I cant remember watching any live streams or attending and meetings where anyone spoke out against deer hunting and all these proposed regs..not 1x, not even at wrac meetings
    There were several but were the minority.  When doe days taken away I remember one who was devastated as he planed his annual vacation around it.  I also remember several who opposed the antler restrictions.  And when it came to bag limit I remember many who opposed the 3/2 and successfully got the commission to go to 5 no more than 2.  I do not member people being opposed to reporting more than concerned with feasibility in remote areas.

    I guess it is more vivid when you see it in color.
    Problem being that the FWC meeting regular attendees seem to promote more rules and restrictions if not being the source of new rule ideas themselves. Maybe the masses may have seen the meetings and said the heck with going to meetings since the regulars (on first name basis with commissioners) touting they represent hunters just seem to like extra rules especially if it helps their business interests. I've even witnessed U bgeorge at the podium say you wish they'd have some sort of limit or tags for turkey hunting - I believe it was during commenting on tag and report agenda item. I know some good results happen due to our participation (e.g. preserving hunting albeit very limited in Stairsteps of Big C.) but off topic comments give FWC or Commissioners ideas that hurt some people eventually. My belief is that hunters favoring tight restrictions versus loose ones - hi bag limits versus low ones, no apr's versus having apr's, no limitsa on turkey ammunition versus #2 shot max -  are split right about down the middle 50/50. So when the restriction/rule lovers get their way (which seems often to me) they seriously irritate half of their fellow hunters every time - thus increasing hunter(s) apathy and abandoning hunting in Fla with it's myriad unending  overly restrictive and seriously questionable rules.
    I have and still do support turkey tags.  That is my personal opinion and have never pushed it as anything else.  You do not hear me get up and have to say how many umpteen different organizations I represent,  It is just Bill George speaking.  I have lobbied for what I have felt is good or right.  Personally I can not stand the I can take two here and one there and things like I can take two per permit but I can not shoot both. Give me two tags and when I burn them I am done.  Public or private.   I have in the alligator world, pushed for changes that were not in my personal interest but what I believe was best for Florida.  If anything many people are confused as to how someone is just not looking out for personal gains.  

    When many people with various backgrounds and ideas openly discuss things the hope is that a better course can be plotted.  Not going to say my way is the right way just how I think it should be based on what I know at this point.  Maybe one cool evening we can talk around a fire.  
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
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