.300 AAC Blackout

BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,866 Captain
Hi guys.
I have to be less loud and accurate in some particular hunting situations and my 30-06 semi-auto isn't a good solution, at all. 
So I'm collecting some info about a bolt action rifle that chambers subsonic cartridges. 
Someone is still using or had have any experience with .300 AAC Blackout? Any suggestion/info about noise and accuracy?
What about this Ruger in this caliber?


Any other suggestion for a subsonic solution?
Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

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Replies

  • kci-miakci-mia Posts: 260 Deckhand
    edited October 8 #2
    I watched and tried subsonic 300 Blk for few years for hunting hogs and ended up giving up.  Subsonic ammo just leaves ice pick wound and is terrible at stopping hogs as the bullets are designed to work/expand at rifle velocities.  I think we recovered only about 20% of hogs we shot.  One hog took a perfect shot to the heart and still managed to run over 500 yards.  Only perfectly centered CNS shots will stop hogs of any size with subsonic ammo.  

    I recently had a guy shoot a good size hog (200+ lb.) with suppressed T/C Contender carbine in 45 Colt shooting 300gr Hornady XTP at about 980 fps and that round worked well.  From 45-50 yards it penetrated left shoulder and exited on right side dropping the hog.  A coup de grace from few yards with same ammo resulted in complete penetration through the skull.  The wound channels that XTP left behind was pretty impressive.  I'm convinced that big/heavy wide handgun bullet designed to expand at subsonic velocity will  works much better than subsonic 300 Blk. or other subsonic rifles cartridges.    

    In terms of noise, being closed action they are pretty quiet but the sound level ultimately depends on the suppressor.  Accuracy can be good to excellent at least within reasonable distance.  I personally found 200 grain Nosler Accubond to be most accurate when loaded to about 975fps followed by 200 grain Sierra Gameking.  Both of these loads were capable of 3/4" - 1" group (5 shots) from 50 yards consistently.  I never shot mine beyond 75 yards at the range and never shot hog at distance greater than about 60 yards.          
     
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,866 Captain
    edited October 9 #3
    Thank you very much. 
    Your huge experience is going to confirm my doubts about this caliber. My shooting range would be not excessive  (15-50 yards) anyway I need a sure stop power and probably .300 is not so reliable.
    Furthermore suppressors are not legal in Italy so I'm not sure that a subsonic .300 is quiet enough.
    Anyway, what about accuracy? 
    Because considering my short shooting range I could compensate the poor stop power with the accuracy. A brain or neck shot at 20/30 yards should stop almost everything.

    I thought at .45 (I already own a 1911 pistol) and I tried to arrange some research for a .45 rifle but there isn't a good choice (especially here, .45 isn't a traditional caliber like in US) and anyway I found only semi-auto rifles (but I would prefer a bolt action for accuracy and better quiet).
    What about noise. Is .300 subsonic quieter than .45 (when both are not suppressed)? 

    P.S. to administrators: I posted in the wrong forum. I apologize. Please could you move this 3d to General Hunting forum?
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Choose common sense, boycott political correctness.
  • nofishtodaynofishtoday Posts: 1,253 Officer
    If your confidence and marksmanship are there 
    you may want to look into the 357mag
    i shoot hogs fairly regularly 
    take headshots only.
     I don’t personally use 357mag
    but I wouldn’t be concerned about using it.
    i do have a a six gun in 357max I plan on using the year 

    good luck 

     
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,866 Captain
    I would like go hunting with handguns but here is illegal. Only rifles allowed. I thought also at .357 (or .38 sp) but the problem is that here isn't easy find subsonic ammo for this calibers and anyway are not so much reliable (especially about accuracy) when used in rifles. This the reason I'm looking for a rifle caliber that was born subsonic. 
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Choose common sense, boycott political correctness.
  • HuckHuck Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    I respectfully disagree with the assessment of the 300 blk, I kill lots of hogs with this cartridge. This is one of many DRT. This was out of AR pistol at about 75 yards 120gr full load. 
    Is it a miracle load, no. Does it perform well as intended, yes.
    Low recoil, good to 150-175 puts deer n hogs down.
    regards
    huck
    DON’T SING IT, BRING IT!
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,866 Captain
    120 grains is supersonic, though. Or not?
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Choose common sense, boycott political correctness.
  • Hunter85Hunter85 Posts: 65 Greenhorn
    120’s are supersonic and my opinion nothing subsonic is ideal for game 
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,866 Captain

    Agree. But when necessary the least bad is the best...

    I think at .300 as solution because is “native” subsonic but can handle well (at least, according to what I read) even supersonics.

    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Choose common sense, boycott political correctness.
  • kci-miakci-mia Posts: 260 Deckhand
    edited October 9 #10
    It's hard to compare the sound level of one cartridge to another as everybody preceives and reacts to sound differently.  In general non-magnum strait wall cartridge is not as loud as magnum bottlebneck cartridge.  Between 300BLK subsonic out of rifle and 45ACP out of pistol I would say they will both be about same but 300BLK supersonic out of rifle and 45ACP out of pistol the 300BLK is louder.  BTW. 300BLK with supersonic cartridge is very effective on hogs and deer out to 150+ yards but it is loud.

    Not loading your own cartridge is also a big disadvantage as there are non-traditional powders that can be used to load some cartridges to keep the sound lower and loading  heavier than standard weight bullets could make some cartridges more effective on games.  

    Subsonic cartridge in 300BLK or 308 Winchester or 30-30 will all be relatively ineffective as they are all 30 caliber with heavy bullet going under 1,000 fps.  To have more effective subsonic cartridge you need to increase the diameter for bigger wound channel, increase the weight of the bullet for deeper penetration and choose a blunt bullet shape that will be more effective in transferring the energy on to the game...everything else being equal, a flat or blunt nose bullet will be more effective than spitzer bullet.  

    One caliber I like a lot for close range is 45-70 with my handload...490gr WFN cast bullet with Trailboss powder filled to the bottom of the loaded bullet.  The sound is mild and recoil is a gentle push as the velocity is only in the neighborhood of 950 fps but when that big bullet hits a hog you can hear the "slap" and hog goes down.  Accuracy is acceptable (1" group) out to 50 yards but it has terrible rainbow trajectory at longer range.  

    In your case, as you are limited to factory loaded ammo, I would think a 45 Colt lever action rifle loaded with factory heavy 300gr bullet would be the best choice.        
  • lilwoodylilwoody Posts: 1,079 Officer
    I picked up a 300 upper a couple of years ago for a very good price and then proceeded to spend a equal amount on dies, then small based dies, chop saw, trimming die and all the other stuff to form cartridges to reload for it. After many hours and hundreds of different loads from 90 grain XTP pistol bullets to 220 sub sonics and harvesting 2 deer and a hog with it I'm done. The hog was hit with a double lung shot at 25 yards, went down popped back up and came out of the palmetto thicket like it was shot out of a cannon. A second 150 grain Sierra Game king clocking at just under 2000 fps was necessary to keep it from ripping my leg opened. only one of the deer dropped where it stood and that one was with a 125 ballistic tip going 350 fps faster.
    I did a lot of work on subs too and see no practical use for them unless hunting from a stand, over bait, with a good suppressor for pest control. I have also worked up subs in 30/30, 444 Marlin and 45/70. If I were to hunt with subs the 45/70 would win hands down. a 500 grain cast bullet loping at a 1000 fps has almost the same energy as a 55 grain 223 doing 3100 fps or a standard 240 grain 44 magnum out of a pistol. The old buffalo cartridge can also be hot-rodded with sonic bullets that can and do harvest anything that walks on the planet. You can also apply those sub numbers to a 458 socom, I haven't the experience or research to know if the socom can equal the 45/70 on the high end though.
    I sold both my big bore rifles a while back to fund a bullpup and regret it very much (bullpups are quite problematic when they jam). I'm going to sell or trade the 300 BO with all the reloading goodies for another big bore soon.   
    "Those who will trade freedom for security will have neither".
  • kci-miakci-mia Posts: 260 Deckhand
    I don't mean to sound like I don't like the 300 BLK cartridge because I do like them...as supersonic cartridge.  
    My little boy hunts with a 300  BLK caliber AR carbine loaded with Barnes 110gr TSX which has acceptable accuracy (a little over 1" group at 50 yards) but has proven to be very effective on hogs and deer out to 100+ yards for him.  He like the rifle and cartridge as it has adjustable stock to fit his small stature and 300BLK has minimal recoil and muzzle flash/blast.  His largest hog to date was over 200 lb which he took with his 300BLK with one shot from about 40 yards...one shot to the base of the skull dropped him immediately.  

    BTW. 45ACP pistols can be effectively used on hogs but from close range.  I've taken few hogs using 1911A1 pistol and Glock 21 pistol using factory Hornady 230gr XTP +P ammo.  Some were one shot kills but few required a follow up coup de grace from close range.          
  • nofishtodaynofishtoday Posts: 1,253 Officer
    BallaCoiPersici
      Try here ask around 
    https://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php

    or search Mike Bellem webpage 
     he is real good with Ballistics 
    including his own wildcat line   

  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,866 Captain
    edited October 10 #14
    Thanks to all, a lot of very useful tips. Thanks again.

    I can deduce I should stay on a .45 round for having the best results. 
    I'm pretty concerned about accuracy (.300 are obviously better) but probably .45 is the best compromise between noise+stop power+accuracy.
    I will check what available on the Italian market, as rifle, for .45 ACP, 45 LC and 45/70. And then I have to find someone who own those calibers to try to shoot all of them.

    The only gap is that according to our c.r.app.y gun law we can detain only 200 rounds for any caliber that C.I.P.* defines for handguns, so .45 ACP and 45LC in this case. And I have already declared all my budget (but including 50 .45ACP, so the problem would be with 45LC).
    No problem instead for C.I.P. defined rifle cartriges (like 45/70), we can own up to 1500 rounds (rifle cartridges are classified as hunting ammo).

    So 45/70 could be the best choice even because I could also load my own ammunitions. In fact I still own a RCBS manual press I've used many years ago to load cartridges for handguns. And I already own a .45 shell loader and dozens of full lead projectiles.  So loading subsonic cartridges by myself could be pretty easy. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_internationale_permanente_pour_l%E2%80%99%C3%A9preuve_des_armes_%C3%A0_feu_portatives
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Choose common sense, boycott political correctness.
  • WetBanditWetBandit Posts: 92 Greenhorn
    To the original poster, what are you looking to hunt?
  • pinseekerpinseeker Posts: 63 Greenhorn
    I've had good luck with my 458 socom.  Great expansion and penetration out to 75yds from what I've shot.  I hand load all my sub sonic ammo though which really helps in bullet selection.
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