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Moccasin 210 / Suzuki motor mounting height

TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 530 Officer
edited June 2019 in Egret Boats #1
When I bought my boat in ealry 2015, Frank had the Suzuki DF200A mounted on the 3rd hole with a suzuki 3 x 14 3/4 x 23p prop.  It was the first of this hull / motor combo.  It ran fine but I decided to lower it two holes and switch to a Mercury Fury4 4 x 14.5 x 26p prop like a few of you have done.  

With the motor mounted on the bottom hole and with the Fury 4 prop, I lose a little rpm unless I trim way, way, way up and even then still lose 2 mph but with better mid-range.  I then had a hub go bad so now the Suzuki prop is back on the boat and I don't like the way it runs now.  It feels like too much drag and it can occasionally porpoise a little.  I am going to rasie the motor back up 1-2 holes and maybe go back to the Mercury prop sinc the 4-blade has better grip and hole shot.

So, now that this hull has been out for several years and majority of motors are the Zuke 200, what mounting hole is everyone's motor mounted on?  What hole is Frank sending these out the door with today?

Replies

  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,379 Officer
    Drop the motor all the way down and it will run like it should. The Suzuki wants to run deep with that prop and any other.
  • TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 530 Officer
    edited June 2019 #3
    FlatsBoy said:
    Drop the motor all the way down and it will run like it should. The Suzuki wants to run deep with that prop and any other.
    The motor has been dropped all the way down for over a year now and I have to disagree Phil. It ran better with that Zuke prop on the 3rd hole than it does now all the way down.  I never ran the Fury 4 prop in any height other than all the way down so I have no basis to compare there but my current thinking is up 1-2 holes with that prop.  

    I would really like a Bravo prop which runs better 1" higher than the Fury (so I read) but not wanting to drop $700 on it when I have a new condition Fury 4 I haven't sold.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your old boat came with a Rev 4 which has a lot of stern lift and you never ran the Zuke 3 blade with the motor all the way down before going to the Fury 4.


  • Vinny lVinny l Posts: 341 Deckhand
     I dropped my engine to the last hole and put the Fury 4 blade. It definitely changed the attitude of the boat.. more to my needs up here.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,379 Officer
    edited June 2019 #5
    It runs the best all the way down with the Suzuki 200 Fury 4 blade and Enertia Eco 23 pitch. I guess you need to learn how to trim and run your boat. Don't know what else to tell you. I've had multiple owner do it and they all agree and I put over 300 hours on it doing it offshore & inshore.
  • TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 530 Officer
    edited June 2019 #6
    FlatsBoy said:
    It runs the best all the way down with the Suzuki 200 Fury 4 blade and Enertia Eco 23 pitch. I guess you need to learn how to trim and run your boat. Don't know what else to tell you. I've had multiple owner do it and they all agree and I put over 300 hours on it doing it offshore & inshore.
    I've been running boats of all kinds for over 30 years now but only single-engine outboards consistently for the last 5 or so; maybe one day I'll be as good as you. 

    By the way, I called Frank today, he recommends 2nd or 3rd hole... not the bottom.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,379 Officer
    edited June 2019 #7
    TXWahoo said:
    FlatsBoy said:
    It runs the best all the way down with the Suzuki 200 Fury 4 blade and Enertia Eco 23 pitch. I guess you need to learn how to trim and run your boat. Don't know what else to tell you. I've had multiple owner do it and they all agree and I put over 300 hours on it doing it offshore & inshore.
    I've been running boats of all kinds for over 30 years now but only single-engine outboards consistently for the last 5 or so; maybe one day I'll be as good as you. 

    By the way, I called Frank today, he recommends 2nd or 3rd hole... not the bottom.

    All boat motor combos are different and need to be setup differently. From Yamaha Suzuki Evinrude Mercury. They all don't lift or spin the same due to gear ratio and or hydrodynamics of the lower unit and power delivery.
    This being said the Suzuki rigged Moccasin combo runs completely different than my new Mercury Moccasin boat I currently own. That's why you test and buy props to raise and lower motors to find the best overall setup to work for most conditions and owners. I have done so with the new boat and all past boats I've owned because how they come are not set up to there full potential due to not having enough time to properly test all conditions before delivery.This information has been used by most owners and the factory from my testing time & time again.Now after several prop changes and motor height adjustments which prove itself in the performance numbers on the water from RPM's fuel economy & overall handling to speed.
    Guess you have it all figured out then will all the testing and time you spent doing so. Good Luck!
  • TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 530 Officer
    Phil,

    I always value your opinion but my experience has just not revealed the same conclusion and it seems to have ruffled some feathers. 

    Your reply on the jack plate thread about the offset and pivot point was a good point that warrants further discussion.    However, I could have done without the snarky comments on this thread.  

    That being said, let me see if I got this straight:
    1.  Different motors and props from different manufactures act differently
    2.  The gear ratio and how the water flows around the lower unit and prop affects things
    3.  Lots of trial and error will reveal the best combo
    4.  Since I disagree with your recommendation, that means I don't know how to trim and run my boat nor understand 1-3 above.  

    That's great stuff, thanks for the best wishes.


  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,379 Officer
    edited June 2019 #9
    1 thru 3 are correct. # 4 will be a never ending discussion: # 5 everyone needs to have a little thicker skin in the game here. Let me know what you come up with that works for you.  :DB)
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,379 Officer
    edited June 2019 #10
    O i missed this the Mercury hub failure on the Fury 4 my bad. The hub is field replaceable just need a insert. It's not a pressed in rubber hub.They usually don't fail unless the prop hits something very hard to spin insert from the drive sleeve.
  • captraycaptray Posts: 52 Greenhorn
    Not trying taking sides here, but have to agree with Phil. I did some of the motor mounting and prop tweaking he's describing, and the boat ran far better mounted all the way down (with Suzuki 200).

    I was running a 27" Fury 3-blade. I never did run the 26" Fury 4-blade, but I'd have to imagine it would be pretty similar.

    It was mounted in the 3rd hole from the factory with the Revo 4-blade, and that was not ideal. Boat was slow and the bow was driven down.

    The Fury 3-blade and dropping the motor lifted the bow and the boat ran "like an Egret". Far more comparable to the way my 20'11" runs.

    In favorable conditions it doesn't really matter, but in disorganized chop it makes a huge difference. The 3rd hole mount will run sticky and you get beat down, take water over the sides like your tabs are trimmed down. I couldn't get it to run on top of the chop until I dropped the motor and went with the 27" Fury.
  • TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 530 Officer
    edited June 2019 #12
    captray said:
    Not trying taking sides here, but have to agree with Phil. I did some of the motor mounting and prop tweaking he's describing, and the boat ran far better mounted all the way down (with Suzuki 200).

    I was running a 27" Fury 3-blade. I never did run the 26" Fury 4-blade, but I'd have to imagine it would be pretty similar.

    It was mounted in the 3rd hole from the factory with the Revo 4-blade, and that was not ideal. Boat was slow and the bow was driven down.

    The Fury 3-blade and dropping the motor lifted the bow and the boat ran "like an Egret". Far more comparable to the way my 20'11" runs.

    In favorable conditions it doesn't really matter, but in disorganized chop it makes a huge difference. The 3rd hole mount will run sticky and you get beat down, take water over the sides like your tabs are trimmed down. I couldn't get it to run on top of the chop until I dropped the motor and went with the 27" Fury.


  • TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 530 Officer
    edited June 2019 #13
    captray said:
    Not trying taking sides here, but have to agree with Phil. I did some of the motor mounting and prop tweaking he's describing, and the boat ran far better mounted all the way down (with Suzuki 200).

    I was running a 27" Fury 3-blade. I never did run the 26" Fury 4-blade, but I'd have to imagine it would be pretty similar.

    It was mounted in the 3rd hole from the factory with the Revo 4-blade, and that was not ideal. Boat was slow and the bow was driven down.

    The Fury 3-blade and dropping the motor lifted the bow and the boat ran "like an Egret". Far more comparable to the way my 20'11" runs.

    In favorable conditions it doesn't really matter, but in disorganized chop it makes a huge difference. The 3rd hole mount will run sticky and you get beat down, take water over the sides like your tabs are trimmed down. I couldn't get it to run on top of the chop until I dropped the motor and went with the 27" Fury.
    I had no problem running on top or keeping the bow up with a zuke 3-blade on the 3rd hole but it would wash out in turns without drastic trim changes. That and the desire for best hole shot and slow planing ability was the reason I made the change in height and to a 4-blade.  That being said, my boat never had the problem you described but then I never ran a Rev 4 prop either. 

    The plan right now is to meet in the middle on the 2nd hole, and remount the Fury 4 since I have it in the garage.  We'll see how that works out. 
  • captraycaptray Posts: 52 Greenhorn
    The 2nd mount should be good, it was pretty close to dropping it all the way. The 3-blade was probably giving you the extra bow lift. My issues were with the Revo 4, it shoved the bow down badly, and running in the St. John's... it can get a different kind of nasty than the rest of the state.

    Bow lift was an issue, but it was more about how the boat felt "stuck" versus popped up with looser handling when I dropped the motor all the way. The boat would shoot out of the water. 4-blade and 3rd mount was definitely an instant plane and great for shallow planing and running no doubt, just didn't like it in rougher seas.

    All that said, boo Revo 4. 
  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 86 Greenhorn
    This thread is solid gold, hasn't been this much action since martin snapped off his pole holders gator huntin' or black silicone around his homedeopt rod holders...keep it going
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,379 Officer
    edited June 2019 #16
    captray said:
    Not trying taking sides here, but have to agree with Phil. I did some of the motor mounting and prop tweaking he's describing, and the boat ran far better mounted all the way down (with Suzuki 200).

    I was running a 27" Fury 3-blade. I never did run the 26" Fury 4-blade, but I'd have to imagine it would be pretty similar.

    It was mounted in the 3rd hole from the factory with the Revo 4-blade, and that was not ideal. Boat was slow and the bow was driven down.

    The Fury 3-blade and dropping the motor lifted the bow and the boat ran "like an Egret". Far more comparable to the way my 20'11" runs.

    In favorable conditions it doesn't really matter, but in disorganized chop it makes a huge difference. The 3rd hole mount will run sticky and you get beat down, take water over the sides like your tabs are trimmed down. I couldn't get it to run on top of the chop until I dropped the motor and went with the 27" Fury.
    This is exactly my point as described here form Captray. After owning all the Egrets models over the years I know how they should run in all conditions.Most any prop will run ok in lake like conditions on these hulls because they run well as designed.
    This is why I tested and recommend these props for all around conditions especially in rough chop and a confused sea!
    I've run the Bravo FS Mercury Racing version and it runs ok but it has too much bow lift and the cut bell causes the motor to blow out & bark some coming out of the hole and off waves with the motor mounted up high or low.The Bravo FS also when running offshore in a sea or big chop with the tabs used to control the bow lift the hull will tend to bow steer not good.The Bravo LT which is the long tube standard barrel length may be better due to having more stern lift but didn't buy one to test $$$.
     Also another great prop for all around and offshore along with great fuel economy in the mid range were most of us run was the Mercury Enertia ECO 23 pitch which runs like a 25 pitch due to it's progressive blade design.Don't let the smaller pitch scare you. It's a 16 inch diameter wheel compared to the 14 inch Fury 3 blade & 14.5 inch Fury 4 blade prop. The Enertia Eco's big blades works very well and great on mid range fuel economy with the Suzuki 200 mounted all the way down. It's easy to drive less input needed for the every day owner!
    Hope this further helps everyone other than putting a dent in your wallets! B)

    https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/propellers/comp-series/enertia-eco/


  • TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 530 Officer
    If anyone is interested..... I raised the motor 1 hole so it's now on the 2nd hole (1 hole lower than Frank delivered it and 1 hole higher than the bottom).  Also put the Fury 4 prop back on it. I can't tell if the hole shot is better or worse but WOT is now 55 mph which is 4 mph faster than than I was able to achieve with the Fury prop on the bottom hole, and 3 mph over the Suzuki prop on any hole.  

    Bow lift as you would expect, more than the 3rd hole, a little less than the bottom hole.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,379 Officer
    Glad it worked out for you. I would love to see a picture of the Suzuki gauge showing that speed and RPM and trim amount. Plus if you can do that consistently full of fuel and gear without being down wind & down current I'd be impressed.  B)  
    Anytime you want to test that let me know I will bring my boat and we can run side by side since my new boat runs 55 all day loaded down wells full of water and full of fuel 58 light with the Merc 225.
  • TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 530 Officer
    FlatsBoy said:
    Glad it worked out for you. I would love to see a picture of the Suzuki gauge showing that speed and RPM and trim amount. Plus if you can do that consistently full of fuel and gear without being down wind & down current I'd be impressed.  B)  
    Anytime you want to test that let me know I will bring my boat and we can run side by side since my new boat runs 55 all day loaded down wells full of water and full of fuel 58 light with the Merc 225.
    I'll try to remember to do that next time.  This weekend is supposed to a boat full and with wife onboard won't see 40.

    No need to race, I'll just buy your boat next year when you upgrade again.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,379 Officer
    No race just want to see 55!
    I only time I saw 55 or 56 was February cold no wind or current freshwater light by myself on the suzuki with the Fury prop!
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