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Coast Guard lieutenant accused of murder plot 'on a scale rarely seen in this country'

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  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    GA Fin said:

    They guy is accused of a crime. Why do they have his private property spread out in a room and photographs distributed to the media? I thought he was innocent until proven guilty?

    He may very well be a nut case and belong in prison but he is accused of drug and firearm crimes, not planning Armageddon. Fantasizing about killing everyone in the world is not a crime to my knowledge.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

    BTW, in my circle that is not a large weapons cache and a laughably small amount of ammunition.

    Because human nature and fallibility of LE and the courts. 
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,869 AG
    pottydoc said:
    I know plenty of people that have way more guns than that. 

    Me too, Potty.   That was the reason for my curiosity w/John...and also the point of including the picture in the opening post.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,869 AG
    edited February 2019 #34
    GA Fin said:

    They guy is accused of a crime. Why do they have his private property spread out in a room and photographs distributed to the media? I thought he was innocent until proven guilty?

    How is providing a picture of seized items violating "innocent until proven guilty"?  

    He lost his right to privacy when he (presumably) violated the law and a search/seizure warrant was issued and executed.  No different from thousands of similar drug seizure photos we've all seen over the years.  They are all still innocent until proven guilty.  

    I don't get it.
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    Disband the Coast Guard!!
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,007 Admiral
    So he is guilty.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 14,695 AG
    The scary part of this story has nothing to do with the puny amount of guns.
       Biological attack.
       
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 21,398 AG
    GA Fin said:

    They guy is accused of a crime. Why do they have his private property spread out in a room and photographs distributed to the media? I thought he was innocent until proven guilty?

    How is providing a picture of seized items violating "innocent until proven guilty"?  

    He lost his right to privacy when he (presumably) violated the law and a search/seizure warrant was issued and executed.  No different from thousands of similar drug seizure photos we've all seen over the years.  They are all still innocent until proven guilty.  

    I don't get it.
    Until he is convicted he is innocent. Police grandstanding shouldnt be allowed. It taints any possible jury pool.
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,460 AG
    Of course it does.
    But we love to punish.  People wouldn't get arrested if they weren't guilty.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 37,803 AG
    GA Fin said:

    They guy is accused of a crime. Why do they have his private property spread out in a room and photographs distributed to the media? I thought he was innocent until proven guilty?

    How is providing a picture of seized items violating "innocent until proven guilty"?  

    He lost his right to privacy when he (presumably) violated the law and a search/seizure warrant was issued and executed.  No different from thousands of similar drug seizure photos we've all seen over the years.  They are all still innocent until proven guilty.  

    I don't get it.
    Until he is convicted he is innocent. Police grandstanding shouldnt be allowed. It taints any possible jury pool.
    How, they get to see the same weapons in court since they are evidence. The police have released nothing that would not be admitted as evidence in court. I think there have been multiple court decision on making evidence public unless attorneys petition the court not to.

    The issue isn't the amount of guns he owned, but that he was a drug addict with that many guns and maybe a terrorist, 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • HOME DEPOT GEORGEHOME DEPOT GEORGE Posts: 674 Officer
    Most of those weapons are junk, a Marlin model 22 22cal a couple cheap single shot and pump shotguns and a Nagant revolver with a 20# trigger pull that can be had for 100 bucks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,007 Admiral
    you can get all that stuff at the local pawn shop.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,869 AG
    edited February 2019 #43
    GA Fin said:

    They guy is accused of a crime. Why do they have his private property spread out in a room and photographs distributed to the media? I thought he was innocent until proven guilty?

    How is providing a picture of seized items violating "innocent until proven guilty"?  

    He lost his right to privacy when he (presumably) violated the law and a search/seizure warrant was issued and executed.  No different from thousands of similar drug seizure photos we've all seen over the years.  They are all still innocent until proven guilty.  

    I don't get it.
    Until he is convicted he is innocent. Police grandstanding shouldnt be allowed. It taints any possible jury pool.
    For what it's worth, I agree with all three of your points... 

    Even with the release of these photos, he's still innocent until proven guilty....that's just the way our system works.  

    But here's where we differ:  Even if grandstanding is wrong and taints a potential jury, it doesn't mean he's not still innocent until proven guilty.

    Although philosophically I agree -- justice would better served if potential pieces of evidence like this were saved for trials.  

    On the other hand, the public does have a right to know....
  • johnpowersjohnpowers BayPosts: 2,898 Captain
    GA Fin said:

    They guy is accused of a crime. Why do they have his private property spread out in a room and photographs distributed to the media? I thought he was innocent until proven guilty?

    How is providing a picture of seized items violating "innocent until proven guilty"?  

    He lost his right to privacy when he (presumably) violated the law and a search/seizure warrant was issued and executed.  No different from thousands of similar drug seizure photos we've all seen over the years.  They are all still innocent until proven guilty.  

    I don't get it.
    Until he is convicted he is innocent. Police grandstanding shouldnt be allowed. It taints any possible jury pool.
    For what it's worth, I agree with all three of your points... 

    Even with the release of these photos, he's still innocent until proven guilty....that's just the way our system works.  

    But here's where we differ:  Even if grandstanding is wrong and taints a potential jury, it doesn't mean he's not still innocent until proven guilty.

    Although philosophically I agree -- justice would better served if potential pieces of evidence like this were saved for trials.  

    On the other hand, the public does have a right to know....
    I agree with you. 
    One thing I have always disagreed with is the policy of police arresting someone and then parading them around posting pics of the defendant in prison garb and mugshots before there is even a pre trial or actual charges being filed. I guess the times a person may have shot it out with the cops or was caught redhanded committing a capital offense maybe different.
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 6,898 Admiral
    That's not an arsenal
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,869 AG
    edited February 2019 #46
    Compared to the average gun nut (around here?), probably not.   :)
  • johnpowersjohnpowers BayPosts: 2,898 Captain
    I guess if you own more than one gun your considered a “nut”?
    unless they are a couple of high priced Bennellis?
  • Drifting_ByDrifting_By ChicagoPosts: 154 Deckhand
    1,000 rounds of ammo? I have more than that in 7.62x54R alone...
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 14,695 AG
    I hope my .22 plinking rounds don’t count!
       
  • GardawgGardawg IslamoradaPosts: 12,718 AG
    1000 rounds isn't much?

    if you got shot 1000 times you might consider it a bit much … 

    or if a 1000 people got shot once you might consider it a bit much

    one is too much if that one is targeting ME!
    "Forgiveness is a strange thing. It can be sometimes easier to forgive our enemies than our friends. It can be hardest of all to forgive people we love." Fred Rogers  
  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,891 Captain
    I’m sure I’ve shot 1000 rounds of 22 in a day before. I know I’ve shot 400 or so 9mm and 40 cal I’m a day. I average an easy 300-350 rounds a month.
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,032 Captain
    pottydoc said:
    I’m sure I’ve shot 1000 rounds of 22 in a day before. I know I’ve shot 400 or so 9mm and 40 cal I’m a day. I average an easy 300-350 rounds a month.
    Buddy of mine shoots compeititively, he’s upped his yearly rounds from 25,000 to 30,000. 

    IIRC that’s just for one caliber.

    From what I read the judge who ordered him held in jail wasn’t happy, apparently told the prosecutors he’d be held two weeks, and they need to bring better evidence.

    Wonder if this guy was one the Feds were “working up” a case on, maybe they jumped the gun (literally) in arresting him?

    Some people might be shocked looking at a pic of a .22 rifle, a couple of shotguns, some assorted pistols and a pile of ammo...but like others have said, I know a lot of people who have a lot more than that.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,007 Admiral
    Keep in mind, the press is very selective on who they display evidence of alleged innocent criminals.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • GardawgGardawg IslamoradaPosts: 12,718 AG
    It was the hit list of targets and communication with white supremist about planning mass murder that got him noticed not his weapon stash. 


    "Forgiveness is a strange thing. It can be sometimes easier to forgive our enemies than our friends. It can be hardest of all to forgive people we love." Fred Rogers  
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 10,024 AG
    I'm not a gun owner, but I can understand why they would own more ammo than necessary.  I own far more lures than a person needs, that strikes me as the same thing.
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
  • 1outlaw1outlaw Naples FLPosts: 1,629 Captain
    kellercl said:
    I'm not a gun owner, but I can understand why they would own more ammo than necessary.  I own far more lures than a person needs, that strikes me as the same thing.
    Its necessary because we use it. I shoot thousands of rounds a year. I buy in bulk especially if popular stuff comes up on sale. I routinely buy 5000 rounds at a time. 
    Jason :USA
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,869 AG
    edited February 2019 #57
    kellercl said:
     I own far more lures than a person needs, that strikes me as the same thing.
    You might be a lure nut if....  :)

    You and me both, incidentally.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,007 Admiral
    edited February 2019 #58
    Every time I tell my wife I need a new lure she points to my fishing/junk room and says "why you got a room full right there?????"
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • 1outlaw1outlaw Naples FLPosts: 1,629 Captain
    surfman said:
    Every time I tell my wife I need a new lure she points to my fishing/jusnk room and says "why you got a room full right there?????"
    My wife gave up saying anything LOL She knows its a lost cause!
    Jason :USA
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 10,024 AG
    Lol, exactly.  I have more fishing gear than I need.  I have enough for a dozen people to go fishing.  So I'm not surprised other hobbyist have the same trend.
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
  • GardawgGardawg IslamoradaPosts: 12,718 AG
    How does one commit mass murder with fishing equipment?

    Exploding lures?

    The amount of arms isn't the point anyway.  It's the planning of mass murder.

    That's the thing that's objectionable.


    "Forgiveness is a strange thing. It can be sometimes easier to forgive our enemies than our friends. It can be hardest of all to forgive people we love." Fred Rogers  
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