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Quota Allocation/Question/Thoughts...

omegafooomegafoo Posts: 3,127 Captain
As I'm now at a spot where I've started applying out of state for other game species out west, I had a recent thought about the Florida quota system and thought I'd bring up for discussion since I'm on year 2 of unsuccessful turkey applications, as a resident.

First, is there somewhere that one could go to find the quota draw info, specifically the total quotas available, quota numbers per WMA, total applications, total applications by residency and then success by residency to calculate draw odds.

What I'm getting at is trying to figure out how many tags are available and how many are consumed by resident vs. non-resident, especially in the spring turkey season where we have a 'coveted' turkey here. Almost all western states put a cap on non-resident tag allocations (most ~10% max) that can be passed out within the state. I'm just curious if Florida's numbers show that we're 95% resident applications and success in the quota or if we're more like 75% or less resident permits issued.

While I realize there is a 'revenue' aspect to this, it seems that the western states put more emphasis on their residents but allow a portion to be obtained by non-residents. Can/should Florida do the same (if we're not already). Allocate 10% max tags to non-residents total and per quota? Depending on the application statistics I'd even think you could split a certain % to a guide pool and the remainder into an open pool (or some ratio thereof) to keep the guides that are on public land happy too.

For round numbers, call it 2000 available permits throughout the state for the spring so only 200 are available to non-residents total. A quota hunt might have only 20 permits for that hunt, so there are only 2 available to non-residents. If 2 non-residents have already filled the available 10% for that hunt, they have to move on down their selection list to another hunt that has non-resident availability. If the 200 numbers has already been filled for the entire spring quota, and even though a hunt might have available 'non-resident' availability, they cannot pull the tag and will have to wait until next year.

Will it cause point creep for a non-resident...sure. But it's no worse than the point creep that I'm experiencing out west or, for that matter, in my own home state as a resident. I guess it just boils down to I'm curious who is getting the permits (by residency)

Thoughts?

Replies

  • Rich MRich M Posts: 1,326 Officer
    Funny how "point creep" is so understandable.  Just look at it as waiting in line at Disney - takes longer than you thought it would and the ride is or isn't as thrilling as you had hoped.

    It does amaze me that FL hunts can take up to 5 years to draw.  I've not heard anyone needing more than 5 points for any given permit.  Except sambar.

    You gotta remember that FL has over 20 million people crammed onto this peninsula.  That's a bunch of residents to go along with the NR hunters wanting that Osceola turkey.

    Would be nice to know how many guys are applying for what hunts - that might change some of the dynamics and point at the "better" hunts.  Gotta be careful what we ask for.  The western states are a good example of playing the odds and knowing what you are getting into if you research em a little.
  • joekat46joekat46 North PortPosts: 2,651 Captain
    edited February 2019 #3
    The current system is what is and IMO 100% better than the transferable permits which were nothing more than a few guys getting together to game the system.  The Special Ops have a 10% non-res limit.  Be good for the regular quota to have the same.  Again just a IMO and won't argue the point.  If someone wants to "game" do it on the Special Ops selling a "pen"  and permit for a $1000.  LOL.  Remember FL is a State that depends on non-res $$.  Start a voter referendum to impose an income tax and see how far that gets. 
  • meateatermeateater south flaPosts: 780 Officer
    i disagree     the current system sucks        45 quotas given out   on average 35 guys show up      thats ten spots wasted      then outa 35 guys that showed up another 10 only hunt one day and go home empty handed   its even worse during deer season   125 permits given out at the slough      less than 70 showed up       so whats better being able to sit at the check station around noon on first day waiting for one of the many 1 day and done hunters who not coming back to give you his permit so you can hunt or wait 3 4 maybe 5 years to get a permit.    i never gamed the old system and got in every wma i went to     every one     granted a few times i waited till 2nd day but always got a permit from someone leaving      ever go to a wma that gives out 5 day quotas   saturday 75 or 80% show up     sunday afternoon 50% of them leave and don,t come back      mon tue wed place is a ghost town.   just my opinion.
  • omegafooomegafoo Posts: 3,127 Captain
    Rich M said:
    You gotta remember that FL has over 20 million people crammed onto this peninsula.  That's a bunch of residents to go along with the NR hunters wanting that Osceola turkey.
    That's pretty much what I'm getting at. Given the ratio of people to available public land, I'm curious as to the distribution of 'granted' access for said activities.

    meateater said:
    i disagree     the current system sucks

    It's no better, or worse, than any of the other systems throughout the country. If anything, they've done a good job of streamlining the application process and making it fairly painless (AZ's online application system is awful!) . They use a pref. points based system, as do others. Most points win. Some use bonus points (in different flavors), some use pref. points, and some use lottery. Transfer-ability was the downfall of the previous system and was abused. It got abused, it got changed. So is the way of the world with abuse situations...
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    get rid of all of them... spread people out open more lands that are closed. Simple solution
  • FreeLinerFreeLiner Posts: 1,572 Captain
    Same thing happened to the Allapahtah Dove Field.    They switched to a random drawing. From that point on attendance sucked.   I think they had plans for that to be the case. 

    They’re now closing the field.  It used to be the best field in the state prior to that, and only exacerbated  by the manager of the field living hours away being a complete waste of tax payers money.
  • PinmanPinman Posts: 3,042 Captain
    meateater said:
    i disagree     the current system sucks        45 quotas given out   on average 35 guys show up      thats ten spots wasted      then outa 35 guys that showed up another 10 only hunt one day and go home empty handed   its even worse during deer season   125 permits given out at the slough      less than 70 showed up       so whats better being able to sit at the check station around noon on first day waiting for one of the many 1 day and done hunters who not coming back to give you his permit so you can hunt or wait 3 4 maybe 5 years to get a permit.    i never gamed the old system and got in every wma i went to     every one     granted a few times i waited till 2nd day but always got a permit from someone leaving      ever go to a wma that gives out 5 day quotas   saturday 75 or 80% show up     sunday afternoon 50% of them leave and don,t come back      mon tue wed place is a ghost town.   just my opinion.

    I cant agree that the current system sucks. "No shows suck" though so let permits be returned within 10 days and give out more permits to compensate for no shows.  Or just go with the total panacea...…….
  • PinmanPinman Posts: 3,042 Captain
    get rid of all of them... spread people out open more lands that are closed. Simple solution


    ……..the total panacea of giving 2 Turkey tags with each Turkey permit sold, 5 (or whatever number) Deer tags  with each Deer permit sold, and open up the peoples land to the people...go hunt where and when you want during season.

    There.

  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 4,359 Captain
    I'm for panacea... A fantasy realm perhaps, but a nice place to be, nevertheless.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Can we admit and figure out a better management plan for these dove fields in FLorida? 
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 2,487 Captain
    Can we admit and figure out a better management plan for these dove fields in FLorida? 
    First you have to push the three huggers out of the agency charged with management. 
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Im all about GFC hate the MYFWCC
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,248 AG
    I think we should run all real issues past the tinfoil hat brigade before proceeding....and then do the opposite thing. 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,738 Captain
    Or, we can keep our heads in a hole.  Let's keep sprayin and pretending fwc is doing a good job managing resources.  Actually, no, I'd rather things be improved....
    Last year I pulled a, supposedly, coveted quota hunt for spring turkey.  30ish permits for 10K acres.  At 4am, every day of the first hunt, there were 5 of us waiting at the gate.  About 10 total showed each day...

    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,738 Captain
    Been to 2 public dove fields multiple times as well now.  Won't be returning. Almost a total waste of time.
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • FreeLinerFreeLiner Posts: 1,572 Captain
    edited February 2019 #17
    H20dad said:
    Can we admit and figure out a better management plan for these dove fields in FLorida? 
    First you have to push the three huggers out of the agency charged with management. 
    Agreed.  Last three years at Allapahtah went like this excuse wise:  1. The millet didn’t take 2. We didn’t seed this year because we spent the money on fertilizer. 3.  No mowing. No seeding. The gate guy didn’t even show to check permits.

    The field is closing due to lack of interest.... intentionally caused by the person that manages the field 4 hours away.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Ya, work on new rules n regs..dont manage the current resources
  • FreeLinerFreeLiner Posts: 1,572 Captain
    Ya, work on new rules n regs..dont manage the current resources
    Both are important.

    if the powers that be gives a field manager 8k for seed each year, and the dude doesn’t put down seed or mow, that’s a management issue and not really resources.
  • PinmanPinman Posts: 3,042 Captain
    Ya cant just put down seed.  You have to "farm"  That Allapattah field was in need of some serious disc work. Like all year long attention.  Make it to where only the Millett will grow.  You cant plant everything in July and expect it to carry into a January hunt either. Need a 2nd planting in October.  I hunted 3 Dove field locations at Allapattah, first year off 714 - wet, next time up by the prison - absolutely flooded.  The current location wasn't bad but sandy soil and I don't know if I ever saw much that looked like a field of Millett.  Something has happened with Dove too, theres just not as many around as there used to be. Maybe the demise of the Orange Groves or just agriculture in general. Great way to get new hunters out and it could use more effort.
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