Red tide problem -- Be pro -active

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  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 661 Officer
    A synopsis for you all:

    A long time ago we made decisions on drainage that prevent the Everglades from ever being a natural flow system. I is now and will always be an engineered drainage system.

    OK so a long time ago the Corp of Engineers decided we needed to channelize the Kissimmee river.  That took out the natural wetland which were filtering nutrients.  Back then the old Lake O was not so bad.

    Then later in history, we had the Hurricane Katrina. Hurricane K resulted in significant levee failures so we came up with new levee design standards.  Several project under construction such as 10 mile creek water preserve suffered after being built because now the levees did not meet design standards, but the big one was Lake Okeechobee.

    That force the Corp of Engineers to limit water levels in Lake O essentially limiting its capacity, 

    Two things happened with this, one, we could not store water for as long in the lake and that affected water quality. But no we had to discharge to the East and West to keep it safe.

    So we removed the filter that was cleaning water to the North then lost our retention time in the big lake.

    Double wammy to the environment.

    OK, so send it South

    Ever hear of the Miccosuki Indians? While the Seminole were building casinos, the Miccosuki Indians hired former US attorney Dexter Leiten to sue the pants off anyone who dumped dirty water thru the Indians historic everglades.

    So then we built the STormwater Treatment Areas which filter and clean up Big Sugars waters..

    OK so they passed the WRDA yesterday and we now have money coming for our Southern Reservoir formerly known as the EAA reservoir.

    Oh, the EAA, what happened to that, I thought we had that under construction a long time ago. Well, we did, but remember this, the Environmental groups sued to stop it saying we were spending public money to build a reservoir that only helped Big Sugar so they spend $250 million closing out the contract and we got nothing.

    Now full circle, we are building an EAA. But now we have to build several thousand acres of new Stormwater Treatment Areas to clean up the EAA water before it hits the Indians.

    7-10 years before we see water in the EAA, and maybe 10 more before we have a completely operating system.

    But don't worry, if we send too much water South, we change the salinity of Florida Bay, so have we really solved anything with billions of dollars?

    So get used to green algae, it will be here for a long time, but No, we don't want top clean up water at the source, we want to move it a couple hundred miles a gallon at a time

    Sp most of us will die and leave this problem to our kids before it is fixed. It take a statewide effort on sewage and septic tanks, fresh water runnoff from farms, dairies, and urban areas, control of fertilizers and pesticides, and a big bunch of help from Mother Nature.


    Oh, our local resident expert...

    The same guy who claims back pumping NEVER happens or RARELY happens. WRONG, we have been down this path in the past! The same guy who has worked along side the SFWMD who made that shady last minute deal to re-lease the land back to big sugar for another 8yrs "20 months at least and then 4 months notice after that" without any public notice violating Florida law.

    What about this Ron... What about if we send enough water south to HELP Florida Bay with their hyper salinity issues due to a lack of naturally flowing fresh water from the north to get to back to levels it needs to be at. Not send too much, but enough.. ever think of that one? Why no mention of their hyper salinity issues due to the lack of fresh water? Doesn't fit your agenda? So really, YES we did solve something with billions of dollars if that were to play out.

    What about this? What happens to Florida's naturally occurring red tide, when mixed with unnatural nutrient loaded fresh water discharges going west from the lake? Is that still NATURAL then? Or did the discharges also play a part?

  • ThrottleThrottle Posts: 2,835 Captain
    edited December 2018 #33
    Sugar is a very dirty industry and federal price supports make it impossible for state initiatives to succeed, no matter how much state money we allocate to buy sugar land for water storage and treatment. If we could end federal sugar subsidies, sugar growers would gladly sell their suddenly unprofitable land at bargain prices, and we could send more clean water to Florida Bay and no dirty deluges to the Indian River and the Caloosahatchee. That of course has nothing to do with K. Brevis, but it would end the blue green algae blooms in our estuaries and improve water quality there and in Florida Bay. That seems like a worthwhile goal to me. 
    Blaming Florida politicians for their inability to accomplish the impossible while muddying the waters over the separate issues of Lake O runoff and red tide is a perfectly pointless pursuit.


  • John McKroidJohn McKroid Posts: 1,830 Captain
    Throttle said:

    Blaming Florida politicians for their inability to accomplish the impossible while muddying the waters over the separate issues of Lake O runoff and red tide is a perfectly pointless pursuit.


    Even if one believes it's "the Impossible",  Our elected officials should be held accountable for how they worked towards or against achieving the objective of fixing the algae problems.   Weather you see offshore algae blooms and Inshore algae blooms as related or not, to debate and bring awareness to the problems is a perfectly purposeful pursuit.   
  • John McKroidJohn McKroid Posts: 1,830 Captain
    A synopsis for you all:

    A long time ago we made decisions on drainage that prevent the Everglades from ever being a natural flow system. I is now and will always be an engineered drainage system.

    OK so a long time ago the Corp of Engineers decided we needed to channelize the Kissimmee river.  That took out the natural wetland which were filtering nutrients.  Back then the old Lake O was not so bad.

    Then later in history, we had the Hurricane Katrina. Hurricane K resulted in significant levee failures so we came up with new levee design standards.  Several project under construction such as 10 mile creek water preserve suffered after being built because now the levees did not meet design standards, but the big one was Lake Okeechobee.

    That force the Corp of Engineers to limit water levels in Lake O essentially limiting its capacity, 

    Two things happened with this, one, we could not store water for as long in the lake and that affected water quality. But no we had to discharge to the East and West to keep it safe.

    So we removed the filter that was cleaning water to the North then lost our retention time in the big lake.

    Double wammy to the environment.

    OK, so send it South

    Ever hear of the Miccosuki Indians? While the Seminole were building casinos, the Miccosuki Indians hired former US attorney Dexter Leiten to sue the pants off anyone who dumped dirty water thru the Indians historic everglades.

    So then we built the STormwater Treatment Areas which filter and clean up Big Sugars waters..

    OK so they passed the WRDA yesterday and we now have money coming for our Southern Reservoir formerly known as the EAA reservoir.

    Oh, the EAA, what happened to that, I thought we had that under construction a long time ago. Well, we did, but remember this, the Environmental groups sued to stop it saying we were spending public money to build a reservoir that only helped Big Sugar so they spend $250 million closing out the contract and we got nothing.

    Now full circle, we are building an EAA. But now we have to build several thousand acres of new Stormwater Treatment Areas to clean up the EAA water before it hits the Indians.

    7-10 years before we see water in the EAA, and maybe 10 more before we have a completely operating system.

    But don't worry, if we send too much water South, we change the salinity of Florida Bay, so have we really solved anything with billions of dollars?

    So get used to green algae, it will be here for a long time, but No, we don't want top clean up water at the source, we want to move it a couple hundred miles a gallon at a time

    Sp most of us will die and leave this problem to our kids before it is fixed. It take a statewide effort on sewage and septic tanks, fresh water runnoff from farms, dairies, and urban areas, control of fertilizers and pesticides, and a big bunch of help from Mother Nature.


    Oh, our local resident expert...

    The same guy who claims back pumping NEVER happens or RARELY happens. WRONG, we have been down this path in the past! The same guy who has worked along side the SFWMD who made that shady last minute deal to re-lease the land back to big sugar for another 8yrs "20 months at least and then 4 months notice after that" without any public notice violating Florida law.

    What about this Ron... What about if we send enough water south to HELP Florida Bay with their hyper salinity issues due to a lack of naturally flowing fresh water from the north to get to back to levels it needs to be at. Not send too much, but enough.. ever think of that one? Why no mention of their hyper salinity issues due to the lack of fresh water? Doesn't fit your agenda? So really, YES we did solve something with billions of dollars if that were to play out.

    What about this? What happens to Florida's naturally occurring red tide, when mixed with unnatural nutrient loaded fresh water discharges going west from the lake? Is that still NATURAL then? Or did the discharges also play a part?

    Debate brings awareness, What about this Ron ?  
  • ThrottleThrottle Posts: 2,835 Captain
    Throttle said:

    Blaming Florida politicians for their inability to accomplish the impossible while muddying the waters over the separate issues of Lake O runoff and red tide is a perfectly pointless pursuit.


    Even if one believes it's "the Impossible",  Our elected officials should be held accountable for how they worked towards or against achieving the objective of fixing the algae problems.   Weather you see offshore algae blooms and Inshore algae blooms as related or not, to debate and bring awareness to the problems is a perfectly purposeful pursuit.   
    My point was that FL legislators are in a poor position to fix the problem as long as the federal government continues to guarantee profitability for big sugar with price supports. If we could get our U.S. reps and U.S. senators to end those sugar price supports our FL legislators would be able to buy up the necessary ag land for the water treatment impoundments for a song and we'd finally have cleaner water. But until price supports end... nearly impossible.
    So the elected officials we should hold accountable include the feds, that's all.
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