Get Sugar Off Our Land

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Replies

  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,042 Officer

    My suggestion is for everyone cutout sugar where ever possible or to substitute sugar with honey. Unfortunately, these guys a supplying the country not just Florida.

  • Angler719Angler719 CrawfordvillePosts: 531 Officer

    Most supermarkets offer sugar grown elsewhere, the sugar I use is grown in Colombia.
    You will probably never get enough people to not buy Florida grown sugar to make a difference.

  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,079 Admiral

    Very informative. Thanks for posting.

  • Completely ignorant article by a group that should stick to fishing! OK so maybe not,,,,,

    4000 acres isn't crap!

    Ok, so lets try something else, maybe we should make it impossible to grow sugar there with changes in our water management laws.

    Hey, great idea, what the hell are the editor going to say when Big Sugar starts building planned communities out there???????

    Lets think this thru boys, a lot going on here to understand when you primary job is to publish a magazine!

    Fact is, sugar production on land to be used for a reservoir is good, it save us a ton of money in the initial clearing of the land.

    Seriously guys think these things thru so you don't look stupid!

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,046 Admiral

    I'm with Ron.

    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 804 Officer
    edited February 19 #7

    why pick on productive farm land.......no body thinks of using Holeyland, Rotenburger, Everglades.wma, and even Hungryland or Pal Mar ???

  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 5,800 Admiral
    YUP, Can't grow crops..let's build houses..lot's of Houses..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,046 Admiral
    YUP, Can't grow crops..let's build houses..lot's of Houses..
    and septic tanks/beautiful green lawns...
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • toomertoomer Posts: 327 Deckhand
    and golf courses too
  • Ron@.38 Special[email protected] Special Posts: 6,838 Admiral
    I hate to see people who don't understand the whole issue to hav editorials and such suggesting that the people we have running things know nothing.

    Fact is, you have a lot of great people working very hard at SFWMD and they make the best decisions they can with the budget they have and the regulations they follow.

    To think that letting land we own sit idle is a good thing shows a lack of full understanding of all issues involved. Why not make a few bucks and have land management taking place while the funds become available to hire a consultant, and design the job then get it started.

    SFWMD has long term plans and professionals looking at the best way to get it done.

    Remember, SFWMD employees and staff live here and play here. Trust me they want the same clean water you all do.
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 804 Officer
    ALL the above mentioned public land has at one time been mentioned for use to store water.....But the focus always falls back to farm land.......I just asked why.. 
  • sonofagunnsonofagunn Posts: 66 Greenhorn
    Yeah, Clewiston is bursting at the seams and in desperate need of new land to house all those millions of people. They will definitely build huge developments on the land if they can't grow sugar, lol.
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 804 Officer
    edited March 7 #14
    Yeah, Clewiston is bursting at the seams and in desperate need of new land to house all those millions of people. They will definitely build huge developments on the land if they can't grow sugar, lol.
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 804 Officer
    edited March 7 #15
    it would take the state of Vermont to provide enough fill to allow developments......one must remember the organic composition of the soil......if dried out oxydation occurs and it blows away....there is a story pole in Belle Glade that shows how much the area has sunk..
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 2,495 Captain
    ANUMBER1 said:

    I'm with Ron.

    So am I. Of course, most of the others on here only listen to the shrill squealing of BS. If they moved off the land now, it would just set there dormant. Why not use it to make money when we don't even have a shrewd of a plan of what to do with it. And I'm talking about a real plan, drawn up by engineers  who understand what needs to be done, and how to do it. You know, guys like Ron. Not politicians or lobbying groups who have a bunch of ideas, but no clue of how to go about getting it done in the real world. 
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 804 Officer
    Seems like the latest "plan'' is to use public land just to the NE of Holey Land.......Where will they get the material to build a dike of that proportion ???
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,092 Captain
    edited May 2 #18
    The call to restore “ Sheet Flow” has been replaced with “ Reservoir”/ Compartmentalize.
    Dividing up a once naturally flowing system in to compartmennts- levees, dikes and the very “ Conservation Area” themselves was the agreed cause for Glades system degradation- and now the call is for more “ reservoir “, the call to restore existing farm land back to Glades sheet flow largely lost-,even here at this Forum.
    Dont think massive development of the Lake O southern shore region is out of the question- see State Of Florida DCA “ Sector Plans”, but a hint to development planner and consultant activity that will, possibly and apparently, run circles around us.
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,092 Captain
    Holey Land & Rotenberger will not become “ Reservoir “ at least as long as the Florida Wildlife Federation and certain persons affiliated with the Federation exist- the lands were purchased by us, the State Of Florida for purposes other than “ Reservoir “ function during an era of optimism and clarity about Everglades, Kissimmee Restoration.
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,092 Captain
    edited May 25 #20
    Subsidence...... an effect the soil south of the Lake exhibits when placed to agricultural production.
    Many inches/+ drop over time......
    The clock ticking, Florida’s Conservation community can afford to drop the Flow Way/ comprehensive Everglades Restoration as envisioned by Art Marshall and pursue needed efforts throughout the state in the meantime; Amendment 1 $$$ to flow elsewhere,Conservation Corridor, critical related O2O while the sugar lands drop down to hard stuff....
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 660 Officer
    edited June 13 #21
    I hate to see people who don't understand the whole issue to hav editorials and such suggesting that the people we have running things know nothing.

    Fact is, you have a lot of great people working very hard at SFWMD and they make the best decisions they can with the budget they have and the regulations they follow.

    To think that letting land we own sit idle is a good thing shows a lack of full understanding of all issues involved. Why not make a few bucks and have land management taking place while the funds become available to hire a consultant, and design the job then get it started.

    SFWMD has long term plans and professionals looking at the best way to get it done.

    Remember, SFWMD employees and staff live here and play here. Trust me they want the same clean water you all do.


    IF the SFWMD really are great people with professional long term plans since they are in the "known", then why the hell are the epically FAILING!!!!

    This issue is nothing new, they have done nothing in the past to correct it, and still have no real solid plans to fix it currently. Like FloridaOD said, it is the dividing up of a once naturally flowing system into compartmentalized levee's and dikes which got us to where we are today. The solution is NOT more of what caused this issue. A real solution is restoring the NATURAL flow like it was long before man built a dike around the lake and stopped the natural overflowing to the south. Long before sugar fields occupied the land "which we must keep dry" so they can continue to produce sugar at a cost that is higher than we can import it for.. Smart!

    Even if the water is not polluted and it's pure freshwater, it is still detrimental to release that much freshwater into a marine environment.

    It's early June and the soon the algae which is already hear will become toxic. In 2016 we were into the end of June before it showed. This is going to be the worst summer yet at this rate. Great work SFWMD and the rest of those who "fully understand" the whole issue but have yet to do anything to really fix it! Keep up the good work!


    I fully support Florida Sportsman and everything they have done for our fisheries in this state! At least they are willing to get to the bottom of it unlike other politically influenced organizations or politicians.

    Sugar companies and executives have pumped at least $525,000 into Adam Putnam's gubernatorial campaign so far. The industry also funnels untraceable amounts through business PCAs such as Associated Industries of Florida and Florida Prosperity Fund. We cannot handle another Rick Scott, and I'm sure Adam will owe big sugar some favors! Corruption from Big Sugar is VERY REAL and I wouldn't doubt it if it made it's way to SFWMD or similar.

     I grew up in Stuart and have first hand watched the collapse of our marine ecosystem due to these discharges and it makes me absolutely sick! In 2010 we had lush grass all the way from Ft. Pierce to Stuart. Now they are just barren mud flats..


  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 660 Officer

    For those of you who haven't seen this yet, I wanted to share. Thank you FS and Brian Mast!!  Perhaps our forum "experts" or those "In the known" care to chime in and address some of these questions while we wait on the USACE response. Wonder if one in particular will stick with his previous comments about how back pumping rarely occurs... It's hard to fight the facts, because it happens way more than "rarely"



    Dear Colonel Kirk:

    As you know, the water laden with algae that you are releasing into our community has now tested positive for toxins. The water management decisions made by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) have life or death consequences for our community.Our residents deserve answers as to why the health and safety of the citizens of the Treasure Coast is viewed as a lower priority than other factors that the USACE considers when making decisions regarding discharges.
    Therefore, I am writing to formally request written answers to the following questions:
      1. At what point, if any, is water flowing from Lake Okeechobee via the S-308 too polluted, dirty, or toxic to send into the St. Lucie River? What is the decision making process, if any, by the USACE for deciding if water is too dirty, toxic or polluted to send to the St. Lucie River?
      2. What law or laws set the operational priorities for the USACE in operating the Central and Southern Florida Project? Is health and human safety one of the priorities of the operation of the Central and Southern Florida Project? If so, explain how discharging toxic algae into the St. Lucie River is compliant with the mandate of protecting health and human safety. Please include specific legal citations to the document or documents setting the priorities for the Central and Southern Florida Project.
      3. From May 14, 2018 to today, how much water has flowed into Lake Okeechobee from south of Lake Okeechobee via the S310 and C-10A? How much water has been discharged into the St. Lucie from May 14, 2018 to today? Please provide your answer in gallons and acre-feet.

    Birds eye view of the algal bloom in Lake Okeechobee. Photo: Steve Schimming, June 16th. Via Jacqui Thurlow-Lippisch

      4. What decision-making process was undertaken for adding water to an already rising Lake Okeechobee from South of the lake, when discharges were imminent? What agency, state or federal, has the ultimate authority to approve or deny these water diversions into the rising Lake Okeechobee from the canals connecting to the S-310 and C-10A?
      5. What percentage of the water flowing into Lake Okeechobee via the S-310 and C-10A primarily come from drainage to agricultural fields? Is the water quality sampled and measured before it is back flowed via these structures into Lake Okeechobee?
      6. Why is water still flowing into Lake Okeechobee today via the C-10A while algae-filled water is being discharged to the St. Lucie River?
      7. In the last year, how much water went south from the S-351, S-352, S-354, and C-10A for agricultural irrigation in the EAA? How much water went south from the S-351, S-352, S-354, and C-10A directly to the stormwater treatment areas?

    The algal bloom in Lake O is currently 102 square miles and growing.

      8. In 2017, in the wake of Hurricane Irma, water was backpumped into Lake Okeechobee from south of the lake as discharges were occurring and the lake was rising quickly. Why would the USACE discharge to make the Herbert Hoover Dike less likely to breach while simultaneously backpumping, making the Herbert Hoover Dike more likely to breach? How much water was backpumped and discharged simultaneously in 2017?
      9. How do operations of Lake Okeechobee change when the USACE discovers or is told about a blue-green algae bloom on the lake? Does the USACE warn county health departments, local officials, or residents in the surrounding communities?
      10. How frequently does the USACE test algae blooms for toxicity? How does the USACE communicate the results of tests to the public and stakeholders? Does the USACE warn residents when discharging algae? Does the USACE keep records of when discharges of toxic algae occur?
      11. Does the USACE coordinate with other federal agencies when algae blooms occur to help ensure the safety of the public? If not, why? If so, how? Please provide examples of past coordination with federal agencies during algae-bloom discharges warning residents of health and safety hazards.

    As this is an ongoing emergency and human health crisis, I appreciate your immediate attention to this issue and answers prior to your scheduled meeting in Stuart, Florida on June 28, 2018.

    Sincerely,

    Brian Mast
    Member of Congress

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 11,254 AG
    Fascinating set of questions.  I don't think Rep. Mast came up with them, but kudos to whoever did.  Well played.  Please do keep us posted on the response.
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,092 Captain
    edited August 28 #24
    In “ natural “ condition- the south shoreline of the lake was @ 9 feet or so above sea level. So the lake flowed south......Everglades features extended to the east coast/ Atlantic.
    We configured the Conservation Areas, Ag areas,and now continue to compartmentalize via the saving grace afforded by....... Reservoir!
    That’s the system you have/ have to work with.
    Unless one can somehow make water flow uphill or somehow forget the Charlie Crist 180,000 acre deal.....
    It is a given Overpopulation and reduced access to Traditional South Florida Recreation and Natural Lands  use and enjoyment will play out.
    After all, Art Marshsll schooled us on  these matters and more.....i
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • BarrellBarrell Posts: 1,059 Officer

    Completely ignorant article by a group that should stick to fishing! OK so maybe not,,,,,

    4000 acres isn't crap!

    Ok, so lets try something else, maybe we should make it impossible to grow sugar there with changes in our water management laws.

    Hey, great idea, what the hell are the editor going to say when Big Sugar starts building planned communities out there???????

    Lets think this thru boys, a lot going on here to understand when you primary job is to publish a magazine!

    Fact is, sugar production on land to be used for a reservoir is good, it save us a ton of money in the initial clearing of the land.

    Seriously guys think these things thru so you don't look stupid!

      If we ended the taxpayer subsidies wouldnt the land become available overnight for cheap?  Why should we as taxpayers keep paying for high priced sugar to be grown in the US?
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 5,800 Admiral
    Interesting question..
    Or would they bring Excavators  and Dynamite Rigs and make Golf Courses...maybe a new Lego Land....Let's try it and see..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,046 Admiral


    an even more interesting question has anyone clicked on the links in posts #24 and 25?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • You guys have no idea what the final plan  is for Sugar Land when the subsidies go away.

    It will be one of the biggest residential developments in the entire state of Florida!

    Some day you guys are gonna wish for sugar farming vs what we are going to get.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 4,948 Captain
    You think it is polluted now......
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,046 Admiral
    You guys have no idea what the final plan  is for Sugar Land when the subsidies go away.

    It will be one of the biggest residential developments in the entire state of Florida!

    Some day you guys are gonna wish for sugar farming vs what we are going to get.
    that I truly believe...
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 3,036 Captain
    That's why the state has to step up... The days when developers got to determine what Florida looks like have to be balanced against the welfare of all the folks here - and that kind of development in areas that should actually have been left alone (and remain the wetlands that helped form and nourish the Everglades system).

    No, it won't be easy - and yes, the state (that's us folks, all of us...) will have to pay for every bit of the land - fighting it out in court if necessary... For those who care nothing for the Everglades or wild places in general - remember that the areas we're talking about are actually critical water resources for every resident in Florida, south of Orlando.... 

    If we fail to do what needs to be done (what I'm talking about will probably take fifty years all told if we really commit...) what will happen will be very gradual but inevitable... Wish it weren't so....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
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