FWC Commission Meeting - Sarasota - June 19-20

spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 619 Officer
I will be in attendance for both days.  I've gone to a few different agency meetings now and finding it pretty interesting.  This will be my first commission meeting for the fwc.  Any thoughts or recommendations as far as what to expect or prepare for?

I see only brief mention on the agenda about improving hunting opportunities.  Mentioned under the title Freshwater Fisheries Program Update???  I guess because wmd controls virtually all of the land...

I plan to address the commission during public feedback for items not on agenda.  I will be expressing my concern about hunting opportunities not being expanded at an adequate rate to keep in step with population growth.  And that a more aggressive approach to habitat improvement must also be undertaken to mitigate adverse affects of the exponential growth in population.
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Replies

  • swampwalkerswampwalker Posts: 1,273 Officer
    Great Spangler! We definitely need more representation. Your topic is spot on. Only thing I'll suggest, is to dress professionally as it's better received overall from all sides. Good luck!
    The original - "Renaissance Redneck"
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,371 Officer
    I will be there as usual.  We can touch base and introduce you to some of the regulars.  The biggest thing is to let them see what you see without coming across as a crazy.  Access to staff outside of mic is your best bang for the buck. 
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,666 Admiral
    Going on record verbally or black n white works way better because its documented. For yrs FWC has ignored hunters plees to expand access in that area, sure buy someone a cup of coffee afterwards
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 853 Officer
    Ask them why people can’t squirrel hunt on wmas during squirrel season even when quota hunts are not occurring. How can you get kids into hunting when in many cases squirrel season is only a month long. ****!!!!!  

    Unless of course you draw a three day quota tag for deer so you can go hunt squirrels. 

    But qdm doesn’t limit hunting, bull crap. 
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,371 Officer
    And I always give staff a rundown of my talking points prior to speaking.  Nobody likes to get called up by the commissioners and asked for background info that they have not prepared for.  If you want to do more than sling mud give them time to prepare.
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,666 Admiral
    They have had decades to prepare for what they know people want in this area. Shame on them if they have not. They work for us we dont work for them keep that in perspective!
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 1,957 Captain
    Small game hunting time has been expanded on a number of WMAs over the years;....more needs to be done....UW-F, about ten years ago, put in for about three dozen specific WMAs rule changes ADDING MIGRATORY BIRD SEASONS to the hunting....Most of them were granted....Read the Brochures carefully as some have restrictions, but many WMAs today are "open for Migratory Bird seasons"...NOW....when I did this you note I did not ask for "DUCK SEASONS"....There was a reason....when you get "Migratory Bird Seasons"...not only do you get DUCK Season...you also get...DOVE SEASONS AND SNIPE SEASONS!!!!  This added as much as two months to Hunting Days on some WMAs!...….That is why you can go out dove hunting and snipe hunting when everything else may be closed...But, as I said READ THE BROCHURES CAREFULLY....Incidentally  THANK YOU UNITED WATERFOWLERS-FL....and THANK YOU DIANE EGGEMAN   ..The other thing UW-F did...not related to ducks, but the topic in general, was put in a number of Rule Change Requests asking for HOG HUNTING DURING SMALL GAME SEASONS....We got several of those through as well....See Dupuis as an example....
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,371 Officer
    They have had decades to prepare for what they know people want in this area. Shame on them if they have not. They work for us we dont work for them keep that in perspective!

    He is new to this process/commission and giving him some general advise.  Not just relating to a single topic. 
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 853 Officer
    edited June 13 #10
    N. Cook said:
    Small game hunting time has been expanded on a number of WMAs over the years;....more needs to be done....UW-F, about ten years ago, put in for about three dozen specific WMAs rule changes ADDING MIGRATORY BIRD SEASONS to the hunting....Most of them were granted....Read the Brochures carefully as some have restrictions, but many WMAs today are "open for Migratory Bird seasons"...NOW....when I did this you note I did not ask for "DUCK SEASONS"....There was a reason....when you get "Migratory Bird Seasons"...not only do you get DUCK Season...you also get...DOVE SEASONS AND SNIPE SEASONS!!!!  This added as much as two months to Hunting Days on some WMAs!...….That is why you can go out dove hunting and snipe hunting when everything else may be closed...But, as I said READ THE BROCHURES CAREFULLY....Incidentally  THANK YOU UNITED WATERFOWLERS-FL....and THANK YOU DIANE EGGEMAN   ..The other thing UW-F did...not related to ducks, but the topic in general, was put in a number of Rule Change Requests asking for HOG HUNTING DURING SMALL GAME SEASONS....We got several of those through as well....See Dupuis as an example....
    I did just review the wmas in south Florida. With the exception of Holy land, Everglades, and Rottenburger, which have no squirrels (effectively) the southern half of the state has a maximum of one month of squirrel hunting on state lands. Squirrel season runs from mid October through to early March. They even don’t allow squirrel hunting on state lands in February when no other hunting seasons are open. Are they so lazy they can’t seperate out some small game species on the brochures and allow squirrel hunting in February?

    That in an an embarrassment when the state is going to spend money working to recruit new hunters. 99% of new hunters start on small game and I would bet a huge percentage of hunters who stay with hunting their entire lives start with small game. 

    The policies of the state work to effectively destroy the ability to recruit new hunters. It is totally unacceptable that this is allowed. 

    The Fwc needs to find a way to increase hunting opportunities by stopping their active limiting of hunter access to public land. 

    They cant claim squirrel numbers are in trouble. They have no legs to stand on, no excuses, they are solely responsible for this. 

    I know of no other state that prohibits people from squirrel hunting on state land because someone is hunting deer. Let deer hunters with quota permits hunt deer and let everybody else hunt small game on state lands according to state game seasons. Period. Only Florida is so dumb to exclude all other hunters because of a few deer hunters, who might well benefit from other hunters bumping the deer around. 
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 619 Officer
    edited June 13 #11
    bgeorge, I'm definitely looking forward to finally meeting you!  I've been meaning to give you a call to chat, but it seems to escape me when I have the time.. man, I've been running in circles lately.  Better than the alternative!

    Appreciating all the great feedback!  I'll do my best to represent hunters in a respectable way ;)  I definitely won't be slinging any mud at all.  At some point, down the road, after diligently demonstrating the facts, building some relationships and EARNING some respect/credibility, I'll start demanding accountability where deserved. 

    How long do I get to present? lol  I'll definitely be touching on small game and r3 as well

    Will there be an option for me to provide and, maybe, show a few slides on the projector?  I'm not going to go crazy but I'd like to at least show them my chart on opportunities for swfwmd region, as an example.


  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 853 Officer
    3 minutes 
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 619 Officer
    edited June 13 #13
    Gotcha.  That will make one on one time even more critical.  I'll find a way to concisely convey my points.  I'm sure some of you are laughing at that :D
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,666 Admiral
    Some meetings  a particular commissioner would only allow 2 minutes, he had diner plans and couldnt afford to be late I guess
  • relicshunterrelicshunter Posts: 514 Officer
    Maybe I am missing something about the squirrel idea. All of the WMA's I hunt allow squirrel during GG. Is it that you want to go in a quota only WMA and squirrel hunt without a quota, or are there places that prohibit it during GG? 
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 853 Officer
    Maybe I am missing something about the squirrel idea. All of the WMA's I hunt allow squirrel during GG. Is it that you want to go in a quota only WMA and squirrel hunt without a quota, or are there places that prohibit it during GG? 
    In south Florida the only people who can hunt squirrels outside of small game season are the very few people awarded permits to hunt deer during quota hunts which occur on weekends in many cases, so during the week nobody hunts on these lands.  Half the population of the state lives in these areas. Nobody could be expected to take their interested young child 3-4 hours drive away to hunt squirrels to introduce them to hunting when they are driving past hundreds of thousands of acres to state lands to get there. 

    It is an inconceivable burden to place upon the public who wish to introduce their children to hunting. 
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,666 Admiral
    x2
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,371 Officer
    spangler said:
    bgeorge, I'm definitely looking forward to finally meeting you!  I've been meaning to give you a call to chat, but it seems to escape me when I have the time.. man, I've been running in circles lately.  Better than the alternative!

    Appreciating all the great feedback!  I'll do my best to represent hunters in a respectable way ;)  I definitely won't be slinging any mud at all.  At some point, down the road, after diligently demonstrating the facts, building some relationships and EARNING some respect/credibility, I'll start demanding accountability where deserved. 

    How long do I get to present? lol  I'll definitely be touching on small game and r3 as well

    Will there be an option for me to provide and, maybe, show a few slides on the projector?  I'm not going to go crazy but I'd like to at least show them my chart on opportunities for swfwmd region, as an example.



    No slides on the projector.  You can have printed material that they will distribute to each commissioner.  Make at minimum of 8 copies.  One for each commissioner and one for the office copy of the book.  Staff can get it in the book prior to being called up or some people walk up with them.  If you are going to do a poster type display you can hold it up or have someone else hold it while you talk. 

    Time limit is 3 minutes per topic that allows for public comment.  You can always reach out to the commissioners individually or as a whole via email.  As others have stated it is sometimes just putting it on the official record at the mic.

    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,723 Captain
    H20dad said:
    Ask them why people can’t squirrel hunt on wmas during squirrel season even when quota hunts are not occurring. How can you get kids into hunting when in many cases squirrel season is only a month long. ****!!!!!  

    Unless of course you draw a three day quota tag for deer so you can go hunt squirrels. 

    But qdm doesn’t limit hunting, bull crap. 
    You honestly believe that quotas are in place as a QDM practice? LOL

    As a QHM practice? Sure. But doing it as a practice of the big bad boogey man QDM? Sorry, but that doesn't compute.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,723 Captain
    Not sure where the South half of Florida stops and the North half begins but I can think of some state land less than 3 hours from Miami/Naples where I could legally hunt squirrels or deer at the same time.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,666 Admiral
    Hwy 70

    Quotas are used as a tool to manage the hunter not the resource
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 853 Officer
    Hwy 70

    Quotas are used as a tool to manage the hunter not the resource
    If that were the reason other hunters could hunt small game during the time small game is open in the state and quota hunts were not occurring?  

    They were put in place to appease some user group. By excluding everyone before and during the deer hunts. 
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 853 Officer
    H20dad said:
    Ask them why people can’t squirrel hunt on wmas during squirrel season even when quota hunts are not occurring. How can you get kids into hunting when in many cases squirrel season is only a month long. ****!!!!!  

    Unless of course you draw a three day quota tag for deer so you can go hunt squirrels. 

    But qdm doesn’t limit hunting, bull crap. 
    You honestly believe that quotas are in place as a QDM practice? LOL

    As a QHM practice? Sure. But doing it as a practice of the big bad boogey man QDM? Sorry, but that doesn't compute.
    Then you agree the quota system was put in to make it easier for some to get a chance at deer when they would otherwise too hard for them to get?  Quality hunt management practice?  So throw everybody off of public land so a few can have a crack at unpressured deer. Sounds political. 
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,666 Admiral
    WD is a private land manger..HUGE diff between public land and Priv land management
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,723 Captain
    Hwy 70

    Quotas are used as a tool to manage the hunter not the resource
    Your perspective is too narrow to see the big picture 
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,666 Admiral
    Nope, its a true observation and solidified talking with FWC enforcement officers privied to internal info. If you have other info please share.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,723 Captain
    WD is a private land manger..HUGE diff between public land and Priv land management
    True.

    Whether you agree with it or not, by design, there is a spectrum of experiences available because of the different formats that are offered on public lands. A significant number of public land hunters want the opportunity to experience more than just the romp n stomp experience. Even if it's less frequent. Does that make their views as a stakeholder less valid than yours?
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,723 Captain
    H20dad said:
    H20dad said:
    Ask them why people can’t squirrel hunt on wmas during squirrel season even when quota hunts are not occurring. How can you get kids into hunting when in many cases squirrel season is only a month long. ****!!!!!  

    Unless of course you draw a three day quota tag for deer so you can go hunt squirrels. 

    But qdm doesn’t limit hunting, bull crap. 
    You honestly believe that quotas are in place as a QDM practice? LOL

    As a QHM practice? Sure. But doing it as a practice of the big bad boogey man QDM? Sorry, but that doesn't compute.
    Then you agree the quota system was put in to make it easier for some to get a chance at deer when they would otherwise too hard for them to get?  Quality hunt management practice?  So throw everybody off of public land so a few can have a crack at unpressured deer. Sounds political. 
    Actually, no. I don't agree. I don't think it has much at all to do with making it easier for hunters with less skill to bag a deer.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,666 Admiral
    WD is a private land manger..HUGE diff between public land and Priv land management
    True.

    Whether you agree with it or not, by design, there is a spectrum of experiences available because of the different formats that are offered on public lands. A significant number of public land hunters want the opportunity to experience more than just the romp n stomp experience. Even if it's less frequent. Does that make their views as a stakeholder less valid than yours?
    ROMP N STOMP is such a loosely used term it is pathetic.

    I grew up hunting WMA's and always had a great experience no matter if I killed a deer or one of my GROUP killed a deer. Actually I made me thrive to learn better how to hunt due to the challenges presented to me as a kid. I would be embarrassed now and afraid to say how long it took me to kill my first PUA buck!

    Would I had loved to had a private lease where everyone sleeps in, puts out gobs of corn, till up the edges of flag ponds for turkeys heellll ya. But I didnt have that leisure,but never envied those who did. I learned how to hunt state lands and high water on private ranches...and had much success but NEVER complained about not seing a buck or a good buck because we knew hard hunting MIGHT produce a good buck.....and dam did we feel privileged with doe week filling the freezers year in and yr out. We had some good yrs and some ok yrs but never a bad yr with meat...NEVER!

    So Yes to answer your question, stakeholders who BITHCH about this n that should NOT have EQUAL say in how the lands are manged. Respect is earned, so should be the chance to express Hunter dissatisfaction without credibility 
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,371 Officer
    With all the people showing interest in the management practices I may have to get there early to get a seat.   Hope to see a few get out from behind the monitor. 
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 853 Officer
    WD is a private land manger..HUGE diff between public land and Priv land management
    True.

    Whether you agree with it or not, by design, there is a spectrum of experiences available because of the different formats that are offered on public lands. A significant number of public land hunters want the opportunity to experience more than just the romp n stomp experience. Even if it's less frequent. Does that make their views as a stakeholder less valid 
    Then keep dinner island the way it is and open the rest of the areas to limited days and unlimited access. Quit keeping the majority of the public hunting land closed to public access. It’s not wise. 
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