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  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,750 AG
    Do facts really matter for you ?

     :D 
    My question for you is how many people have been killed in your country by mass shooters in the past 20 years?
    Vote for the other candidate
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Mister-Jr said:
    Do facts really matter for you ?

     :D 
    My question for you is how many people have been killed in your country by mass shooters in the past 20 years?
    How many NRA members have committed mass shootings in yours?
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,750 AG
    fins4me said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    Do facts really matter for you ?

     :D 
    My question for you is how many people have been killed in your country by mass shooters in the past 20 years?
    How many NRA members have committed mass shootings in yours?

    fins4me said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    Do facts really matter for you ?

     :D 
    My question for you is how many people have been killed in your country by mass shooters in the past 20 years?
    How many NRA members have committed mass shootings in yours?

    You're all over the place today.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,750 AG
    Secondly, you're all over the place today.

    PS - I hope this crappy format is cheaper because it sucks.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,518 Admiral
    Mister-Jr said:
    mplspug said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    Was mplspug said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    I have not lived anyplace where I felt compelled to carry a firearm for personal self-defense. 
    Cool me too.  What's your point?
    Paranoia
    So some people carry and your blanket statement is that they are paranoid?  That's not fair.  Maybe some people hope they are never in a life threatening situation, but if they are they want to give themselves a fighting chance instead of being at the mercy of someone who doesn't value life or others.
    Odds are better than they will injure themselves or someone in their home before they get into a life-threatening situation when a firearm will help.  

    I wouldn't say the same for individuals that hunt, only those that carry for self-protection. 

      
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,518 Admiral
    Mister-Jr said:
    mplspug said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    Was mplspug said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    I have not lived anyplace where I felt compelled to carry a firearm for personal self-defense. 
    Cool me too.  What's your point?
    Paranoia
    So some people carry and your blanket statement is that they are paranoid?  That's not fair.  Maybe some people hope they are never in a life threatening situation, but if they are they want to give themselves a fighting chance instead of being at the mercy of someone who doesn't value life or others.
    Odds are better than they will injure themselves or someone in their home before they get into a life-threatening situation when a firearm will help.  

    I wouldn't say the same for individuals that hunt, only those that carry for self-protection. 

      
    B......... S..........

    I am a member of both communities........ If anything hunters are more likely to have an accident.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    edited April 2018 #218
    Mister-Jr said:
    Do facts really matter for you ?

     :D 
    My question for you is how many people have been killed in your country by mass shooters in the past 20 years?
    The right definition would be "mass murderers", not "mass shooters". Be honest ;)

    Anyway, altough we have had very dark times (from seventies to the end of nineties, with the terrorism and Mafia wars) with dozens of assasinated people, the answer is pretty simple: the Italian society is deeply different than US society.

    Then the big issue is understand which differences make the difference (excuse me for the words trick).
    We can start with the history and education, with the mono-ethnicity, with the strong family values and so on but the factors are thousands. Anyway we are loosing all these factors very fast and that will move Italian society (any European society, France, UK and Germany are ahead) to become any day more similar to the America one, or better, we (the Western world) are loosing any puculiar identity for becoming only ATM at the service of the real dangerous lobbies, the ones that want the people slave of their charming ideological dogmas (inculcated by TV, newspapers, social media, etc.) in order to easier control them. It's a new communism folks: not more tanks in the squares to occupy the countries but political correctness everywhere and everytime to occupy the brains.
    America is just doing this faster than Europe (America is always ahead) although many people there still resist (and although someone get a brain short circuit and start to kill people).

    In my opinion you have to wait not more than 10/15 years to realize that your question of today won't have any sense tomorrow.

    Mister-Jr said:
    PS - I hope this crappy format is cheaper because it sucks.
    We agree on something :D




    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,483 Officer
    Funny how the responses go into these long discussions about politics, facts, non facts ,explanations, justifications.
    All that is needed is a simple factual, non propaganda answer.

    (Just fill the blanks)
    How many people killed by mass murders (with firearms, to make it clear) have been committed in the last 20 years in the US - ____?____
    How many people killed in France mass murders (with firearms) have been committed in France by shooters in the last 20 years-____?_____
    How many mass murders with guns, vans, trucks and firearms in France in the last 20 years _____?____

    How many people killed by firearms in the US every year ___?____
    How many people killed by firearms in France every year ___?____

    The questions are not about how many were NRA members or not, how many were hunters or both, how many were Muslim or Catholic, how many were white or black , how many were Republican or Democrat , how many were women or men, how many owned their firearms legally or not.    Just simple non propaganda facts.

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 32,606 AG
    edited April 2018 #220
    Your questions are propaganda and not simply facts. Each one can be looked at in different ways. You only  concentrate on guns and not the overall picture.

    Based on size and population the rate of mass murders If we look at mass murders for the last 20 years the U.S. has had 16 mass murders and France had seven. But the U.S. has almost 5 times as many people, so the rate is lower.

    There were 326 people killed in those mass murders in the U.S. and 399 people were killed in the mass murders in France. So the mass murderers were able to kill more people in France with less mass murders. 

    More people use a gun to commit suicide in the U.S., but the suicide rate for each country is almost identical with the U.S. at 12.6 and France at 12.3.

    So while it is true more people use guns in the U.S., in those countries with gun control, they find other means to commit the same acts. 


    Those are facts that don't fit the propaganda. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    edited April 2018 #221
    cadman said:
    Your questions are propaganda and not simply facts. Each one can be looked at in different ways. You only  concentrate on guns and not the overall picture.

    Based on size and population the rate of mass murders If we look at mass murders for the last 20 years the U.S. has had 16 mass murders and France had seven. But the U.S. has almost 5 times as many people, so the rate is lower.

    There were 326 people killed in those mass murders in the U.S. and 399 people were killed in the mass murders in France. So the mass murderers were able to kill more people in France with less mass murders. 

    More people use a gun to commit suicide in the U.S., but the suicide rate for each country is almost identical with the U.S. at 12.6 and France at 12.3.

    So while it is true more people use guns in the U.S., in those countries with gun control, they find other means to commit the same acts. 


    Those are facts that don't fit the propaganda. 

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1661390

    More and better gun control...less gun death. A TRUE scientific study.

  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    edited April 2018 #222
    Why France ?
    Use Brazil or Mexico instead.
    Guns in those countries are strictly regulated by law (like France) and are both closer and similar to the USA ;) .

    Here you can check the homicides rank per countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate Not recently updated but it offers a good view.
    BTW USA ranks "only" 94th, Brazil 14th and Mexico 23th (France 162th, Italy 192th).

    Considering that for any 100 citizens USA counts 101.05 guns, Brazil 8.6 and Mexico 15* even a r..ard can easily understand that the number (or type) of guns around can't be correlated to the murders rate.
    Are the people who kill, not the tools. So (again) don't waste your effort in useless witch hunts if you really want drop down the murders rate in US; try instead to fix the social issues.

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate









    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 32,606 AG
    Cyclist said:
    cadman said:
    Your questions are propaganda and not simply facts. Each one can be looked at in different ways. You only  concentrate on guns and not the overall picture.

    Based on size and population the rate of mass murders If we look at mass murders for the last 20 years the U.S. has had 16 mass murders and France had seven. But the U.S. has almost 5 times as many people, so the rate is lower.

    There were 326 people killed in those mass murders in the U.S. and 399 people were killed in the mass murders in France. So the mass murderers were able to kill more people in France with less mass murders. 

    More people use a gun to commit suicide in the U.S., but the suicide rate for each country is almost identical with the U.S. at 12.6 and France at 12.3.

    So while it is true more people use guns in the U.S., in those countries with gun control, they find other means to commit the same acts. 


    Those are facts that don't fit the propaganda. 

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1661390

    More and better gun control...less gun death. A TRUE scientific study.

    You can't prove it would result in less deaths, You just make them choose alternative means to do the killing,. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    cadman said:
    Cyclist said:
    cadman said:
    Your questions are propaganda and not simply facts. Each one can be looked at in different ways. You only  concentrate on guns and not the overall picture.

    Based on size and population the rate of mass murders If we look at mass murders for the last 20 years the U.S. has had 16 mass murders and France had seven. But the U.S. has almost 5 times as many people, so the rate is lower.

    There were 326 people killed in those mass murders in the U.S. and 399 people were killed in the mass murders in France. So the mass murderers were able to kill more people in France with less mass murders. 

    More people use a gun to commit suicide in the U.S., but the suicide rate for each country is almost identical with the U.S. at 12.6 and France at 12.3.

    So while it is true more people use guns in the U.S., in those countries with gun control, they find other means to commit the same acts. 


    Those are facts that don't fit the propaganda. 

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1661390

    More and better gun control...less gun death. A TRUE scientific study.

    You can't prove it would result in less deaths, You just make them choose alternative means to do the killing,. 
    Is that so....show us the data....that back up you feeeeelings.....
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,483 Officer
    The numbers are the facts. They are also calculated per 100,000 so population of the country is taken into consideration.
    What could or not be considered propaganda is all the justifications used by various groups, on both sides, as to  what are the reasons, (social, political, economic or whatever) that these true facts exist.

    In the Palm Beach Paper today, the last sentence of an article says
    ”The homicide is Palm Beach County’s 27th, and the 18th involving a shooting”. That is a FACT
    Now you can argue that they were not NRA members, they were all illegal guns ( speculating) they were drug related ( speculating), they were mentally ill or whatever, THE FACT is 18 people have been killed by shootings in just one county this year
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,483 Officer
    The numbers are the facts. They are also calculated per 100,000 so population of the country is taken into consideration.
    What could or not be considered propaganda is all the justifications used by various groups, on both sides, as to  what are the reasons, (social, political, economic or whatever) that these true facts exist.

    In the Palm Beach Paper today, the last sentence of an article says
    ”The homicide is Palm Beach County’s 27th, and the 18th involving a shooting”. That is a FACT
    Now you can argue that they were not NRA members, they were all illegal guns ( speculating) they were drug related ( speculating), they were mentally ill or whatever, THE FACT is 18 people have been killed by shootings in just one county this year
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 32,606 AG
    Cyclist said:
    cadman said:
    Cyclist said:
    cadman said:
    Your questions are propaganda and not simply facts. Each one can be looked at in different ways. You only  concentrate on guns and not the overall picture.

    Based on size and population the rate of mass murders If we look at mass murders for the last 20 years the U.S. has had 16 mass murders and France had seven. But the U.S. has almost 5 times as many people, so the rate is lower.

    There were 326 people killed in those mass murders in the U.S. and 399 people were killed in the mass murders in France. So the mass murderers were able to kill more people in France with less mass murders. 

    More people use a gun to commit suicide in the U.S., but the suicide rate for each country is almost identical with the U.S. at 12.6 and France at 12.3.

    So while it is true more people use guns in the U.S., in those countries with gun control, they find other means to commit the same acts. 


    Those are facts that don't fit the propaganda. 

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1661390

    More and better gun control...less gun death. A TRUE scientific study.

    You can't prove it would result in less deaths, You just make them choose alternative means to do the killing,. 
    Is that so....show us the data....that back up you feeeeelings.....
    You are the one wanting to get rid of guns, You need to prove it would result in less deaths, I have already shown that France has the same suicide rate and more deaths for Mass killings then the U,S. for the last 20 years. I think it is time you proved something. 

    why not look at states with strict gun control like Illinois compared to say Florida. 

    Murder rate in Illinois was 8.2 in 2016 and Florida was 5.4. Doesn't sound like gun control makes too much difference. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    I think that the western world should start to control haters, not guns or whatever is not politically correct.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    cadman said:
    Cyclist said:
    cadman said:
    Cyclist said:
    cadman said:
    Your questions are propaganda and not simply facts. Each one can be looked at in different ways. You only  concentrate on guns and not the overall picture.

    Based on size and population the rate of mass murders If we look at mass murders for the last 20 years the U.S. has had 16 mass murders and France had seven. But the U.S. has almost 5 times as many people, so the rate is lower.

    There were 326 people killed in those mass murders in the U.S. and 399 people were killed in the mass murders in France. So the mass murderers were able to kill more people in France with less mass murders. 

    More people use a gun to commit suicide in the U.S., but the suicide rate for each country is almost identical with the U.S. at 12.6 and France at 12.3.

    So while it is true more people use guns in the U.S., in those countries with gun control, they find other means to commit the same acts. 


    Those are facts that don't fit the propaganda. 

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1661390

    More and better gun control...less gun death. A TRUE scientific study.

    You can't prove it would result in less deaths, You just make them choose alternative means to do the killing,. 
    Is that so....show us the data....that back up you feeeeelings.....
    You are the one wanting to get rid of guns, You need to prove it would result in less deaths, I have already shown that France has the same suicide rate and more deaths for Mass killings then the U,S. for the last 20 years. I think it is time you proved something. 

    why not look at states with strict gun control like Illinois compared to say Florida. 

    Murder rate in Illinois was 8.2 in 2016 and Florida was 5.4. Doesn't sound like gun control makes too much difference. 
    Apples to oranges....but there is a common denominator.   GUNS
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    I think that the western world should start to control haters, not guns or whatever is not politically correct.
    You are the one that lives, and seemingly votes, in country returning to fascism.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/22/casapound-italy-mussolini-fascism-mainstream



  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    Cyclist said:
    I think that the western world should start to control haters, not guns or whatever is not politically correct.
    You are the one that lives, and seemingly votes, in country returning to fascism.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/22/casapound-italy-mussolini-fascism-mainstream



    Well, today in Italy the only ones who really are fascist are the antifascist.
    More or less the same of what happens there in USA.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Cyclist said:
    I think that the western world should start to control haters, not guns or whatever is not politically correct.
    You are the one that lives, and seemingly votes, in country returning to fascism.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/22/casapound-italy-mussolini-fascism-mainstream



    Well, today in Italy the only ones who really are fascist are the antifascist.
    More or less the same of what happens there in USA.
    oh gee...that makes total sense. LOL

    Got any comment on the article I posted, or are you gonna just run defense for your countries fascist revival?



  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral

    Your article is not in topic and anyway those few morons didn’t get any chair at the last election.

    So, at the end just a personal attack totally useless for the point (political correctness which is influencing the freedom and the people/business behaviors). 

    Case closed. 

    If you have any fact in topic instead than derailing in order to forcing the moderators to delete the thread (I can understand it bothers you if it remains open) I’ll hear you with pleasure.

    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG

    Your article is not in topic and anyway those few morons didn’t get any chair at the last election.

    So, at the end just a personal attack totally useless for the point (political correctness which is influencing the freedom and the people/business behaviors). 

    Case closed. 

    If you have any fact in topic instead than derailing in order to forcing the moderators to delete the thread (I can understand it bothers you if it remains open) I’ll hear you with pleasure.

    You didn't answer the question now did you?
  • sailfish2sailfish2 Posts: 4,315 Captain
    Peter still being Peter, new day new snowflake ideas.
    Hoping for better luck next time...... and got it.

    WINNING!
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 6,420 Admiral

    Your article is not in topic and anyway those few morons didn’t get any chair at the last election.

    So, at the end just a personal attack totally useless for the point (political correctness which is influencing the freedom and the people/business behaviors). 

    Case closed. 

    If you have any fact in topic instead than derailing in order to forcing the moderators to delete the thread (I can understand it bothers you if it remains open) I’ll hear you with pleasure.

    You seem pretty smart....You think Baker Mayfield was a good pick?
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,518 Admiral
    Cyclist said:
    cadman said:
    Your questions are propaganda and not simply facts. Each one can be looked at in different ways. You only  concentrate on guns and not the overall picture.

    Based on size and population the rate of mass murders If we look at mass murders for the last 20 years the U.S. has had 16 mass murders and France had seven. But the U.S. has almost 5 times as many people, so the rate is lower.

    There were 326 people killed in those mass murders in the U.S. and 399 people were killed in the mass murders in France. So the mass murderers were able to kill more people in France with less mass murders. 

    More people use a gun to commit suicide in the U.S., but the suicide rate for each country is almost identical with the U.S. at 12.6 and France at 12.3.

    So while it is true more people use guns in the U.S., in those countries with gun control, they find other means to commit the same acts. 


    Those are facts that don't fit the propaganda. 

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1661390

    More and better gun control...less gun death. A TRUE scientific study.

    Study means nothing...... Some places have more firearms than others..... People use what is convenient. It does not mean they will not murder someone if they do not have a gun handy..... Just means they will use something else.

    Dead is dead and murder is murder...... No matter the tool that is used.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    How many guns have just up and killed someone because they didn't like the ammo they were fed or they didn't get oiled enough when they were new? None. It's not very intellgent to think the gun is the problem.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral

    Your article is not in topic and anyway those few morons didn’t get any chair at the last election.

    So, at the end just a personal attack totally useless for the point (political correctness which is influencing the freedom and the people/business behaviors). 

    Case closed. 

    If you have any fact in topic instead than derailing in order to forcing the moderators to delete the thread (I can understand it bothers you if it remains open) I’ll hear you with pleasure.

    You seem pretty smart....You think Baker Mayfield was a good pick?

    Baker what ?!?

    Just kidding, I know who he is (from 2 minutes; I googled :D)
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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