why illegal immigration will not be stopped...

12357

Replies

  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,046 AG
    It's the story of our country, Fins.  It's your family's story.  It's my family's story.  It's the illegal Mexican immigrant working in your competitor's fields and their Dreamer child's story.

    They are not here to milk anything.  They are here to do a job and get paid and improve their lives and the lives of their families.  No different from any of us except they had to break a law to make it happen.
    Spead some pixie dust and be dazzle the edges and your story will be complete. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    fins4me said:
    And land expansion was  why so many of our ancestors came here and were encouraged to do so.
    And today we need them to fill the job of fruit picker and hotel maid and cook and dish washer.

    Times change.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    fins4me said:
    It's the story of our country, Fins.  It's your family's story.  It's my family's story.  It's the illegal Mexican immigrant working in your competitor's fields and their Dreamer child's story.

    They are not here to milk anything.  They are here to do a job and get paid and improve their lives and the lives of their families.  No different from any of us except they had to break a law to make it happen.
    Spead some pixie dust and be dazzle the edges and your story will be complete. 
    Save the pixie dust, a few new laws will do just fine.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 23,982 AG
    edited April 23 #125
    dave44 said:
    Ok Cad. If China were to pay less than a dollar a year to their “employees “ they would be considered slaves, but not until then.
       Do you really think unfettered capitalism would keep prices low on everything? The supply and demand side of capitalism says you are not thinking clearly. Because I’m sure you realize that people’s skill level make them free agents  to negotiate their wages?
    You are the one who said Tarponator  did not understand capitalism, I am just providing you with the definition, of capitalism, You keep interjecting other factors. 

    Supply and demand are two different laws (supply law and demand law) and can effect a capitalists profits depending on how much supply and how much demand you have, A person's ability to negotiate a wage depends on the supply of labor to do that job,. If your job is to make widgets and a billion people can make widgets, you have very little ability to negotiate a wage for your skill without anti-capitalistic government regulations guaranteeing you a minimum wage of some sort. If your skill is to build rocket ships and only a few people have the skill to do this, then you have the ability to negotiate a higher wage for your skill, Most of the "free agency" you perceive is  government instituted anti-capitalistic laws. 

    I am thinking quite clearly, You seem to be confusing freedom with government control. Do you think some people would be earning $8.25 an hour in Florida if it wasn't because a law required it,. The government removed the free wage negotiation by implementing minimum wage laws Do you think every business would pay overtime pay if the law did not require it. There is no freedom of wage negotiation at the minimum wage level job, 

    Minimum wage laws even artificially affect the wages of higher paying jobs by setting the minimum floor to begin negotiation, 

    unregulated capitalism would doom our country. I assume that is what you mean by unfettered.


    Mini Mart Magnate

  • Florida Ex-patFlorida Ex-pat Posts: 500 Deckhand
    fins4me said:
    And land expansion was  why so many of our ancestors came here and were encouraged to do so.
    And today we need them to fill the job of fruit picker and hotel maid and cook and dish washer.

    Times change.

    We have people for these jobs.  We have, to some extent, taken away the incentive.  We have drummed it into the kids that if they are not going to college they have failed in some way.  Used to be these were the jobs you started out in and built a career upon them, moved up so to speak.  Now the new generation wants to start mid-level.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    edited April 23 #127
    That's an awful lot of generalization for someone of your intelligence, Ex Pat.

    However, I think there's something to your statement about there were "jobs you started out in and built a career upon". 

    Those middle class jobs mostly left America in the past 30 years, and along with wage stagnation, combine to become the root of much of the unrest we see today.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 9,556 Admiral
    cadman said:
    THERE AREN'T ANY AMERICANS FOR THESE JOBS, 
    Yes there are. Their just laying on the couch watching tv and collecting “entitlements”. 
    When those are cut out a empty stomach makes for an open mind. 
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 9,556 Admiral
    fins4me said:
    And land expansion was  why so many of our ancestors came here and were encouraged to do so.
    And today we need them to fill the job of fruit picker and hotel maid and cook and dish washer.

    Times change.
    Maybe you can point out all the produce fields and fruit groves in Chicago, NYC or south central LA?
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 7,020 Admiral
    fins4me said:
    And land expansion was  why so many of our ancestors came here and were encouraged to do so.
    And today we need them to fill the job of fruit picker and hotel maid and cook and dish washer.

    Times change.

    We have people for these jobs.  We have, to some extent, taken away the incentive.  We have drummed it into the kids that if they are not going to college they have failed in some way.  Used to be these were the jobs you started out in and built a career upon them, moved up so to speak.  Now the new generation wants to start mid-level.
      True. If there wasn’t millions of illegals willing to do tradesman work you would see those jobs paying a lot more.
       The teaching profession has let America down pushing college on these kids. 
       I think Germany has vocational schools and locates candidates for them early, not everyone is capable of finding a job in underwater basket weaving, you shouldn’t be able to get a doctorate in that anyway.

  • dave44dave44 Posts: 7,020 Admiral
    edited April 23 #131
    Cad, I think you know our country has more laws than it needs to keep capitalism within bounds and most laws are an artificial morality imposed on business.
       You argue yourself into a deep rabbit hole because you take everything thing to an extreme.
       And yes, I think minimum wages would go up without the law, if illegal immigrants were stopped. You talk like 8.25 is a great thing, and maybe you need that moral compass to help guide your soul, but I have never hired for less than 10$, and if it looks like they are going to be 10$ for more than a week, I fire them. 
       I need them to know some math, and be careful. There are some kids that aren’t worth 5$ an hour. The best thing that could happen is let them learn why they need to better themselves, they aren’t being taught that at home or school.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 9,556 Admiral
    fins4me said:
    And land expansion was  why so many of our ancestors came here and were encouraged to do so.
    And today we need them to fill the job of fruit picker and hotel maid and cook and dish washer.

    Times change.
    Maybe you can point out those fields of produce and frui
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 22,777 AG
    fins4me said:
    Throughout the southeast our jails are populated by non citizens . Local sheriff's here in eastern Tennessee report that oft times more than half of the jailed population is compromised by non citizens at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are thieves, commit a huge portion of drunk driving wrecks and hit and runs, they trespass, poach ponds, rivers and lakes. 

    Their children take resources from the school systems that should be utilized by children of US citizens instead of being wasted on them at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are washing out cultural norms throughout the nation.

    Being blind due to PC by so many will be the downfall of this nation. 
    Actually this is a lie. And for those in jail, did not commit a criminal act other than coming here illegally.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/aug/25/lamar-smith/mostly-false-lamar-smith-claim-one-third-federal-i/



    133cbf2b243368b1ddb2f591a1988076--beach-posters-florida-travel.jpg
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,550 Admiral
    fins4me said:
    And land expansion was  why so many of our ancestors came here and were encouraged to do so.
    And today we need them to fill the job of fruit picker and hotel maid and cook and dish washer.

    Times change.
    none of that is a "need" 
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,065 Admiral
    That's an awful lot of generalization for someone of your intelligence, Ex Pat.

    However, I think there's something to your statement about there were "jobs you started out in and built a career upon". 

    Those middle class jobs mostly left America in the past 30 years, and along with wage stagnation, combine to become the root of much of the unrest we see today.
    Wage stagnation is exacerbated by the influx of cheap labor.
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 22,777 AG

    Bottom line, many American businesses are too cheap to pay a decent living wage and many Americans are too cheap to pay for decent food. Americans are addicted to crap food and farmers are gonna satisfy the demand. For example, that is why gmo grain fed unhealthy beef is the rage, it is cheap, never mind the nasty diseased cow it came from.




    Crops Rot While Trump-Led Immigration Backlash Idles Farm Work

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-06/crops-rot-while-trump-led-immigration-backlash-idles-farm-lobby

    Alabama immigration: crops rot as workers vanish to avoid crackdown

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers


    Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business

    https://mic.com/articles/8272/alabama-illegal-immigrant-crackdown-destroys-farm-business#.5s2Ag3ZqO









    133cbf2b243368b1ddb2f591a1988076--beach-posters-florida-travel.jpg
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    That's an awful lot of generalization for someone of your intelligence, Ex Pat.

    However, I think there's something to your statement about there were "jobs you started out in and built a career upon". 

    Those middle class jobs mostly left America in the past 30 years, and along with wage stagnation, combine to become the root of much of the unrest we see today.
    Wage stagnation is exacerbated by the influx of cheap labor.
    At the bottom end, I would agree.  However, wage stagnation is much broader than that.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    edited April 23 #138
    Finfinder said:
    fins4me said:
    And land expansion was  why so many of our ancestors came here and were encouraged to do so.
    And today we need them to fill the job of fruit picker and hotel maid and cook and dish washer.

    Times change.
    none of that is a "need" 
    According to you.

    The businesses that employ them, and many of the consumers that get their products and services cheaper as a result, would disagree.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,046 AG
    edited April 23 #139
    Throughout the southeast our jails are populated by non citizens . Local sheriff's here in eastern Tennessee report that oft times more than half of the jailed population is compromised by non citizens at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are thieves, commit a huge portion of drunk driving wrecks and hit and runs, they trespass, poach ponds, rivers and lakes. 

    Their children take resources from the school systems that should be utilized by children of US citizens instead of being wasted on them at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are washing out cultural norms throughout the nation.

    Being blind due to PC by so many will be the downfall of this nation. 
    Actually this is a lie. And for those in jail, did not commit a criminal act other than coming here illegally.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/aug/25/lamar-smith/mostly-false-lamar-smith-claim-one-third-federal-i/



    I will not be called a liar by a wretch like yourself. My comment came directly from the sheriff of my county of residence.  I assume he knows who is in his jail.  The article you slung against the wall refers to federal prisoners and even it reports that there are many there at tax payer expense. Toss the useless refuse out of our nation and keep them out.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    They are hardly useless refuse to your industry.  They are a competitive advantage.
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 22,777 AG
    fins4me said:
    Throughout the southeast our jails are populated by non citizens . Local sheriff's here in eastern Tennessee report that oft times more than half of the jailed population is compromised by non citizens at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are thieves, commit a huge portion of drunk driving wrecks and hit and runs, they trespass, poach ponds, rivers and lakes. 

    Their children take resources from the school systems that should be utilized by children of US citizens instead of being wasted on them at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are washing out cultural norms throughout the nation.

    Being blind due to PC by so many will be the downfall of this nation. 
    Actually this is a lie. And for those in jail, did not commit a criminal act other than coming here illegally.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/aug/25/lamar-smith/mostly-false-lamar-smith-claim-one-third-federal-i/



    I will not be called a liar by a wretch like yourself. My comment came directly from the sheriff of my county of residence.  I assume he knows who is in his jail.  The article you slung against the wall refers to federal prisoners and even it reports that there are many there at tax payer expense. Toss the useless refuse out of our nation and keep them out.
    For normal US communities your data is a lie. For your backwards seemingly racist county, I have no doubt the sheriffs targets brown people, that's how ignorant rural communities roll....
    133cbf2b243368b1ddb2f591a1988076--beach-posters-florida-travel.jpg
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,046 AG
    They are hardly useless refuse to your industry.  They are a competitive advantage.
    My "industry" is southeastern livestock, field crop, hay and custom feed production. I nor it depends on illegitimate labor inputs.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    edited April 23 #143
    You're in the agriculture industry, and to suggest that your industry doesn't depend on illegal labor is laughable. 

    Nobody said anything about you personally, or your industry micro-segmentation.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,046 AG
    You're in the agriculture industry, and to suggest that your industry doesn't depend on illegal labor is laughable.

    Nobody said anything about you personally, or your industry micro-segmentation.
     I have said that those who have failing business plans that depend on illegitimate labor inputs deserve to fail... I cheer their failure on.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    Yet your party does nothing to stop it except pay lip service to building an ineffective wall.   Hell, even deportations are down.

    Curious that your ire is not turned their way.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,046 AG
    Yet your party does nothing to stop it except pay lip service to building an ineffective wall.   Hell, even deportations are down.

    Curious that your ire is not turned their way.
    Then you haven't paid attention to my ire.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,275 AG
    I'd like to think I pay pretty close attention, and I cannot recall your ire turned in that direction.  But my memory is imperfect, so perhaps you might point out your posts in this regard.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,046 AG
    I have said all along that no one including the Republicans have the fortitude to do what should be done. The little actions they do accomplish are feeble at best.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • Florida Ex-patFlorida Ex-pat Posts: 500 Deckhand
    That's an awful lot of generalization for someone of your intelligence, Ex Pat.

    However, I think there's something to your statement about there were "jobs you started out in and built a career upon". 

    Those middle class jobs mostly left America in the past 30 years, and along with wage stagnation, combine to become the root of much of the unrest we see today.

    I'm not so sure they left.  I just don't see many kids aspire to be the Assistant Manager of their local grocery store, Walgreens, McDonalds or hotel.  The entry levels for those jobs are not ones that are impressive but they do help you develop the skills and knowledge that it takes to move up.  You just have to work hard, learn and be patient.  Now that those entry level jobs are filled with incredibly cheap migrant labor those opportunities diminish for young adults here.  It was a bit of a generalization but not a huge one. 
  • Florida Ex-patFlorida Ex-pat Posts: 500 Deckhand
    Cyclist said:
    fins4me said:
    Throughout the southeast our jails are populated by non citizens . Local sheriff's here in eastern Tennessee report that oft times more than half of the jailed population is compromised by non citizens at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are thieves, commit a huge portion of drunk driving wrecks and hit and runs, they trespass, poach ponds, rivers and lakes. 

    Their children take resources from the school systems that should be utilized by children of US citizens instead of being wasted on them at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are washing out cultural norms throughout the nation.

    Being blind due to PC by so many will be the downfall of this nation. 
    Actually this is a lie. And for those in jail, did not commit a criminal act other than coming here illegally.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/aug/25/lamar-smith/mostly-false-lamar-smith-claim-one-third-federal-i/




    Cyclist said:
    fins4me said:
    Throughout the southeast our jails are populated by non citizens . Local sheriff's here in eastern Tennessee report that oft times more than half of the jailed population is compromised by non citizens at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are thieves, commit a huge portion of drunk driving wrecks and hit and runs, they trespass, poach ponds, rivers and lakes. 

    Their children take resources from the school systems that should be utilized by children of US citizens instead of being wasted on them at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are washing out cultural norms throughout the nation.

    Being blind due to PC by so many will be the downfall of this nation. 
    Actually this is a lie. And for those in jail, did not commit a criminal act other than coming here illegally.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/aug/25/lamar-smith/mostly-false-lamar-smith-claim-one-third-federal-i/




    I don't know if it is a lie or not but, by your admission, they did commit a criminal act.  Thus they are in jail.
  • Florida Ex-patFlorida Ex-pat Posts: 500 Deckhand
    Cyclist said:
    fins4me said:
    Throughout the southeast our jails are populated by non citizens . Local sheriff's here in eastern Tennessee report that oft times more than half of the jailed population is compromised by non citizens at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are thieves, commit a huge portion of drunk driving wrecks and hit and runs, they trespass, poach ponds, rivers and lakes. 

    Their children take resources from the school systems that should be utilized by children of US citizens instead of being wasted on them at huge taxpayer expense.

    They are washing out cultural norms throughout the nation.

    Being blind due to PC by so many will be the downfall of this nation. 
    Actually this is a lie. And for those in jail, did not commit a criminal act other than coming here illegally.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/aug/25/lamar-smith/mostly-false-lamar-smith-claim-one-third-federal-i/



    I will not be called a liar by a wretch like yourself. My comment came directly from the sheriff of my county of residence.  I assume he knows who is in his jail.  The article you slung against the wall refers to federal prisoners and even it reports that there are many there at tax payer expense. Toss the useless refuse out of our nation and keep them out.
    For normal US communities your data is a lie. For your backwards seemingly racist county, I have no doubt the sheriffs targets brown people, that's how ignorant rural communities roll....


    Define backwards.  The same things he cites are decried for occurrence right here in Silicon Valley in the San Francisco Bay Area, the very heart of liberal America.  You sure you live in a Puritan place?


Sign In or Register to comment.