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Florida Strain, Northern Strain, and Hybrid Bass

Does anyone know of ways to visually tell the difference between florida strain and northern strain bass? I'm curious mainly because I've caught what I think are some northern strains in South Carolina but think some of them might have been hybrid. Some of them looked way different than the bass I usually catch

Here's probably the most different looking one I caught, it was a little over 5lbs. What caught my attention was 1) The mouth seemed to be much smaller than the ones I usually catch here, it didn't open as wide it seemed especially for its size. 2) The coloration was significantly different. I have seen bass with similar coloration here in florida but only in gin clear water like springs. The water this bass was in was very stained/low visibility no more than 1ft 3) The body shape seemed to be different also but I can't put my finger on what was different about it
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Another one from south carolina about a year before the other one, possibly the same fish (from my friends stocked pond, no more than 100ftX50ft)
attachment.php?attachmentid=9642&d=1320709275


What really gets me was the size of the mouth on that first bass, it sure seemed smaller

Maybe a spot?
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Huge-Spotted-Bass-590x417.jpg
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Replies

  • RemoteRedsTroutRemoteRedsTrout Posts: 408 Deckhand
    Another picture of the first bass, it seemed like it had the mouth of a 3lb florida bass but it was only around 19-19.5". The other one was also 19"
    attachment.php?attachmentid=9649&d=1320709796
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  • bmoodybmoody Posts: 987 Officer
    My understanding is the the differences between M.s.salmoides (northern largemouth) and M.s.floridanus (Florida largemouth) are more physiological and behavioral than morphological or meristic.
    In SC you were likely catching intergrades (hybrids as you described) or pure northerns. Off the top of my head I can't remember the "natural" intergrade zone, but SC did import some Florida fish at least once.
  • RemoteRedsTroutRemoteRedsTrout Posts: 408 Deckhand
    Thank you for the information!

    The F1 hybrids sound like a blast, i wonder if they ever stock them in the ponds/small lakes around me.

    I really doubt this was what I caught, this looks a lot more like a smallmouth and different coloration
    Meanmouth - Cross between a spotted bass and a smallmouth
    meanmouthif0.jpg

    http://www.tnfish.org/PhotoGalleryFish_TWRA/FishPhotoGallery_TWRA/pages/MeanmouthBassHybridSmallmouthSpottedNorrisNegus_jpg.htm
    MeanmouthBassHybridSmallmouthSpottedNorrisNegus_jpg.jpg
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  • RemoteRedsTroutRemoteRedsTrout Posts: 408 Deckhand
    Anyone know what the record northern bass is? From what I gather Kurido's bass, Dottie in California, and George Perry's bass were Florida strain
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  • bmoodybmoody Posts: 987 Officer
    You don't want F1s anywhere -- the F1s might sound great at first, but once they start breeding you get F2s and other backcrosses, which face noticable outbreeding depression (the opposite of hybrid vigor), leaving you with a mess of a polluted gene pool that has neither the benefits of pure northern or pure Florida subspecies.

    As these have only recently been recognised as distinct subspecies, I don't that anyone keeps (or ever will) separate records for northern and Florida largemouth.
  • DogmanDogman Posts: 450 Deckhand
    Looks like a northern. Up here that is all we have in the large mouth pool. They don't get as big nor have as big mouths as the floridas. Small mouth bass almost look like they have stripes. Up here they can get very dark olive. Here is a pic of a 5lbs smally from this summer for reference.

    dsc02252h.jpg
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  • RemoteRedsTroutRemoteRedsTrout Posts: 408 Deckhand
    Very nice lunker smallmouth!!

    bmoody - Good point, I don't think i've ever seen it stated what strain the bass was for state records, only for world record/possible world record bass. Makes me wonder how big the northern strain are capable of getting, i'm pretty sure ive heard of over 15lbs, but on average it seems like they are smaller
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  • SnookmeisterSnookmeister Posts: 1,035 Officer
    The only real way to visually tell a difference between floridas and northerns is the scale size. Floridas have smaller scales. I remember reading in an article by the Texas fish and wild life people that floridas have 69-73 scales along the lateral line where as northerns have 59-65. As far as mouth size goes I have seen a wide variety. It seems like many of the northerns I have caught in Arkansas and georgia had smaller mouths like that. But I have caught bass in Tampa and all the way down in the Everglades that had small mouths compared to others that are the same length.
    Catch 'em and Release 'em!
    http://tampaurbanangler.blogspot.com/
  • RemoteRedsTroutRemoteRedsTrout Posts: 408 Deckhand
    Thank you for the information!

    I doubt it but do you think it was a spot? Ive never knowingly caught one. I think I remember seeing that if the jawline goes past the eye then its a spot, kinda looks like that one might be like that but I'm not sure, i might post a better picture
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  • Egreen cobraEgreen cobra Posts: 230 Deckhand
    Doesn't look like a spot. I'd say Northern. Spots will have "teeth" on their tongues. I want to say the "northern" record is in the teens ~14 or so. But who knows...
  • FrisbeeFrisbee Posts: 2,315 Officer
    A real breif lesson on strategies of survival when brood size is in the thousands .
    A successful species has the genetic potential to have its generation maintain the same population of breeding pairs in the next generation.

    We do this by having offspring very similar to us and investing a huge amount of our resources in making those few individuals survive.

    HOWEVER.
    Animals that have thousands of offspring often have a different strategy. They invest their resources in producing thousands of offspring that look similar to us on first glance but have a huge number of variations in an attempt to be able to have "some" of the offspring suited to survive to breedable age. Everything...growth rates and lifecycles, behavior, and morphology. Certainly they must maintain some semblance to the adults but the strategy is to provide change in enough of the offspring that every adjustment of the environment is within the tolerances of the offspring as a whole.
  • RemoteRedsTroutRemoteRedsTrout Posts: 408 Deckhand
    Frisbee wrote: »
    A real breif lesson on strategies of survival when brood size is in the thousands .
    A successful species has the genetic potential to have its generation maintain the same population of breeding pairs in the next generation.

    We do this by having offspring very similar to us and investing a huge amount of our resources in making those few individuals survive.

    HOWEVER.
    Animals that have thousands of offspring often have a different strategy. They invest their resources in producing thousands of offspring that look similar to us on first glance but have a huge number of variations in an attempt to be able to have "some" of the offspring suited to survive to breedable age. Everything...growth rates and lifecycles, behavior, and morphology. Certainly they must maintain some semblance to the adults but the strategy is to provide change in enough of the offspring that every adjustment of the environment is within the tolerances of the offspring as a whole.

    Good point, very interesting
    bill-dance-motor-o.gif1314011917_bill_dance_fishing_blooper.gifsMozlUn.gif
  • SnookmeisterSnookmeister Posts: 1,035 Officer
    Frisbee wrote: »
    A real breif lesson on strategies of survival when brood size is in the thousands .
    A successful species has the genetic potential to have its generation maintain the same population of breeding pairs in the next generation.

    We do this by having offspring very similar to us and investing a huge amount of our resources in making those few individuals survive.

    HOWEVER.
    Animals that have thousands of offspring often have a different strategy. They invest their resources in producing thousands of offspring that look similar to us on first glance but have a huge number of variations in an attempt to be able to have "some" of the offspring suited to survive to breedable age. Everything...growth rates and lifecycles, behavior, and morphology. Certainly they must maintain some semblance to the adults but the strategy is to provide change in enough of the offspring that every adjustment of the environment is within the tolerances of the offspring as a whole.

    LOL I remeber this from bio II, it was called r vs. K selection, I aced that test HAHAHAH
    Catch 'em and Release 'em!
    http://tampaurbanangler.blogspot.com/
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