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Who on this forum has ever faced another......

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  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 14,231 AG
    If the troll fits. 
    Just dropping grenades in OT
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    I ask because many on here want to take teachers and arm them. Some have mentioned training but there's been no big emphasis on training. I asked because I wanted a point of reference on were they coming from. Had they experienced what they advocated for others to do?

    Instead I get name calling, accusations  of being drunk, cursed at and the most common refrain from certain ones......it's political trolling. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with the safety of our children.

    I'm glad it turned out well for you Cad.

    It's a very personal question Slough. I agree. No one has to answer it. I will look at Cadman's logic and answers a little differently in the future through.

    When It comes to people defending our children it shouldn't be teachers. It should be a dedicated LEO individual who has been trained to respond to armed intruders who are trying to kill our youth. Someone who understands the volatility of a situation with multitudes of screaming kids running around while an deranged individual with a rapid firing weapon is wading through them.

    My daughter and sister are teachers. Speaking with them and others, they want no part of being armed in school.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • ResinheadResinhead Posts: 10,987 AG
    edited March 2018 #34

    My daughter and sister are teachers. Speaking with them and others, they want no part of being armed in school.
    Then in no way should they be. Its purely voluntary as all CCW is. You either choose to or not.

    Many teachers are going the route of training and arming themselves and that's their decision.

    These soft targets are getting not so soft whether you agree or not.
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    Did I say I didn't agree? about soft targets? I don't recollect that.

    I'm simply saying trained professionals should provide the security not volunteers. And I wanted to know if the proponents of teachers being armed had ever faced what the proponents were advocating.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    Finfinder said:
    dave44 said:
    Is this an activist political troll? It seems like it.
    Obviously a political troll attempting to portray gun owners as blood thirsty killers.  The OP must have taken drama courses from Bimini Twisted. 

    If this was for real, the words defense or defended would have been used.    
    It has nothing to do with what gun owners are or aren't. Just about everyone I know owns guns, lots of guns. I don't think there is a blood thirsty killer in the bunch.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 14,231 AG
    I'm simply saying trained professionals should provide the security not volunteers. And I wanted to know if the proponents of teachers being armed had ever faced what the proponents were advocating.
    Why didn't you just come out and ask that?

    Given the choice between armed security and voluntarily armed and trained teachers, yes I would prefer armed security.

    I heard someone argue we don't want to turn our schools into prisons.  I asked, do you prefer keeping them shooting ranges?
    Just dropping grenades in OT
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,417 Admiral
    edited March 2018 #38

    No, but reading this just reminded me of a dream I just had.  I was in the front seat of a car, and a bad guy was trying to shoot me.  He was outside the driver's window.  He had a pistol and I had an AK47.  There was a struggle, and I had trouble getting the gun pointed at him due to the close quarters, but I did manage to get two shots off.  Think I hit him.

    Also - what did I have to even think in order to answer this question?  I should have know the answer immediately.  Maybe because I have fantasized about it too many times? 


    23895.gif
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 6,246 Admiral
    Anyone who has honestly been in that situation finds it very difficult to discuss. Ultimately human beings have ethics and morals and and that's what separated is from animals. I've heard Cadmans story before and and I know nothing about him, but I would assume it's not the easiest subject to discuss even though his life was endangered at the time.

     No one will ever know how they will respond in a major life threatening crisis. That said I know for a fact that my children's teachers love them immensely and I'm perfectly fine with them defending their lives if they so choose
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • MGTeacherMGTeacher South GaPosts: 1,798 Captain
    I'm going to give my opinion. First a little background, I'm a honorably discharged veteran, have a CCW permit, and have been teaching for 17 years. I teach in a rural middle school, in my hometown. 
    My wife (also a teacher), and I have discussed whether or not I should "sign-up" to carry at school if given the right. At first, I was all in, and would sign-up for the training if available. But, after watching the news, looking at news websites, social media, and hearing (I don't watch) about all the daytime shows that break down every move, and word someone who is involved in a shooting is put through, I'm not sure.
    What I mean for example, if you are armed and engage with an active shooter, if your actions even results in an injury to a student (not the shooter) you will be held liable. Your life will be investigated by the media (liberal and conservative), and you and your family will be smeared forever. They don't care if what they report is true or not, these parasites will report hearsay as facts. Ask Trump. You can never unsay something.
    What should one do?
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 7,045 Admiral
    edited March 2018 #41
    I have been shot at but fortunately not hit, shot at many and believe I may have hit some. Vietnam

    Was shot at by carjacker which failed but shot my car three times, no one hit.
    Deo Vindice
  • SloughSlough S.w. Ga./ St. JamesPosts: 5,555 Admiral
    My opinion, Most teachers should not carry. Some I think would have the sense to carry safely. We don't need no Rambo's running around a crowded school esp. during a panic situation. Now if a teacher was to carry, they need to try and secure their students in a safe place and only use weapon if the shooter comes to them face to face. 

    It is a sad time in this country when our schools and churches are have to even consider needing weapons.

    I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    Parkerboy said:
    I have been shot at but fortunately not hit, shot at many and believe I may have hit some. Vietnam

    Was shot at by carjacker which failed but shot my car three times, no one hit.
    Northern I Corp.....LZ Nancy. '69-70. Like you, I really don't know. Thanks my brother. It was a nasty time in this country.

    Carjackings are crazy up here.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    mplspug said:
    I'm simply saying trained professionals should provide the security not volunteers. And I wanted to know if the proponents of teachers being armed had ever faced what the proponents were advocating.
    Why didn't you just come out and ask that?

    Given the choice between armed security and voluntarily armed and trained teachers, yes I would prefer armed security.

    I heard someone argue we don't want to turn our schools into prisons.  I asked, do you prefer keeping them shooting ranges?
    Because I wanted to know the background on those who wish to have normal citizens put into difficult situations. Doesn't make me or them right or wrong. Just gives some insight into their viewpoints.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • thatredneckguyjamiethatredneckguyjamie Posts: 174 Deckhand

    Because I wanted to know the background on those who wish to have normal citizens put into difficult situations. Doesn't make me or them right or wrong. Just gives some insight into their viewpoints.
    The difficult situations are already there, we have witnessed the media and others having a field day with them. The difference is that one teacher that would be willing to stand up and put his or her body in between the students and someone shooting is that same teacher would have the OPTION to do something about it and just be a human shield.Right now are schools are open targets and maybe...the fear of knowing any one of the teachers or admins at these schools COULD be armed, just might be enough to give pause to one of these nut jobs intent on harming the innocent 
  • Florida Ex-patFlorida Ex-pat Posts: 586 Officer

    Does artillery count?


  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    LOL........sure. I believe it was the 2/94th Artillery on LZ Nancy with us.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • Billy No MatesBilly No Mates Posts: 3,257 Captain
    fins4me said:
    And yes  it does relate. On both occasions if things had gone differently I would have had to use the lethat force the op troll was looking for.


    Why do you always resort to name calling when you do not have a pertinent response?
    It is what a few on this forum do for some reason. I guess they are just always angry or always looking to argue.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 36,557 AG
    Did I say I didn't agree? about soft targets? I don't recollect that.

    I'm simply saying trained professionals should provide the security not volunteers. And I wanted to know if the proponents of teachers being armed had ever faced what the proponents were advocating.
    As I said on the other thread, I am not in favor of teachers being armed. There are some that could do it with training, but the issue is liability. As MGteacher brought up, an accidental shooting of a student would bring up massive negative publicity and a huge liability issue, If I was in that situation, I would not carry unless the school system agreed to insure me against any liability issues and provide legal defense if needed. Once teachers start carrying, there will be a lawsuit sooner or later and every teacher will suffer for it, It is a bad decision, 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • Florida Ex-patFlorida Ex-pat Posts: 586 Officer
    LOL........sure. I believe it was the 2/94th Artillery on LZ Nancy with us.
    I meant does artillery rounds launched into a city count? 
  • fish_stixfish_stix Posts: 1,394 Officer
    cadman said:
    Did I say I didn't agree? about soft targets? I don't recollect that.

    I'm simply saying trained professionals should provide the security not volunteers. And I wanted to know if the proponents of teachers being armed had ever faced what the proponents were advocating.
    As I said on the other thread, I am not in favor of teachers being armed. There are some that could do it with training, but the issue is liability. As MGteacher brought up, an accidental shooting of a student would bring up massive negative publicity and a huge liability issue, If I was in that situation, I would not carry unless the school system agreed to insure me against any liability issues and provide legal defense if needed. Once teachers start carrying, there will be a lawsuit sooner or later and every teacher will suffer for it, It is a bad decision, 

    The unarmed teacher won't have to worry about liability if all they can do is lay there with the kids and let some mental **** shoot them. I'd prefer that my kids teachers that were willing and able would be armed and prepared to protect the kids and themselves. If a teacher doesn't feel confident there's no law that says they have to carry. There are many, many teachers who are military vets and retired police officers; I wouldn't have a problem with any of them carrying nor would I have a problem with a motivated teacher of any background getting the training and carrying.
  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,708 Captain
    I ask because many on here want to take teachers and arm them. Some have mentioned training but there's been no big emphasis on training. I asked because I wanted a point of reference on were they coming from. Had they experienced what they advocated for others to do?

    Instead I get name calling, accusations  of being drunk, cursed at and the most common refrain from certain ones......it's political trolling. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with the safety of our children.

    I'm glad it turned out well for you Cad.

    It's a very personal question Slough. I agree. No one has to answer it. I will look at Cadman's logic and answers a little differently in the future through.

    When It comes to people defending our children it shouldn't be teachers. It should be a dedicated LEO individual who has been trained to respond to armed intruders who are trying to kill our youth. Someone who understands the volatility of a situation with multitudes of screaming kids running around while an deranged individual with a rapid firing weapon is wading through them.

    My daughter and sister are teachers. Speaking with them and others, they want no part of being armed in school. 
    i have several relatives who are teachers. They are on the other side of your daughter and sister, and would choose to carry. They are also very proficient with firearms. More so than most cops who shoot just enough to gualify the very year. If you think cops are good shots, look at the amount of rounds fired you cops involved in gunfights. This week there as one in the news where 5 or so officers fired 99 rounds at a guy in the trunk of a car. They hit him 25 times, which is actually high compared to most gun fights cops are involved in. Swat teams are much better, but we are talking about regular beat cops, not SWAT. By the time they make it to a school, the shooting is usually over. 
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    pottydoc said:
    I ask because many on here want to take teachers and arm them. Some have mentioned training but there's been no big emphasis on training. I asked because I wanted a point of reference on were they coming from. Had they experienced what they advocated for others to do?

    Instead I get name calling, accusations  of being drunk, cursed at and the most common refrain from certain ones......it's political trolling. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with the safety of our children.

    I'm glad it turned out well for you Cad.

    It's a very personal question Slough. I agree. No one has to answer it. I will look at Cadman's logic and answers a little differently in the future through.

    When It comes to people defending our children it shouldn't be teachers. It should be a dedicated LEO individual who has been trained to respond to armed intruders who are trying to kill our youth. Someone who understands the volatility of a situation with multitudes of screaming kids running around while an deranged individual with a rapid firing weapon is wading through them.

    My daughter and sister are teachers. Speaking with them and others, they want no part of being armed in school. 
    i have several relatives who are teachers. They are on the other side of your daughter and sister, and would choose to carry. They are also very proficient with firearms. More so than most cops who shoot just enough to gualify the very year. If you think cops are good shots, look at the amount of rounds fired you cops involved in gunfights. This week there as one in the news where 5 or so officers fired 99 rounds at a guy in the trunk of a car. They hit him 25 times, which is actually high compared to most gun fights cops are involved in. Swat teams are much better, but we are talking about regular beat cops, not SWAT. By the time they make it to a school, the shooting is usually over. 
    I'm not sure what you are speaking of.. I'm not speaking of "beat" cops, swat teams or somebody's civilian relative who may or may not be proficient with a weapon.

    I'm speaking of a full time, well trained individual who is proficient in crisis management and weapon control. Someone who  specifically trained for the job. This job is very different from being in law enforcement.  I have no doubt you may have some relatives who might qualify for the "training". Simply being proficient with a firearm does not qualify you for this position IMO.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 6,246 Admiral
    I've always wondered why a victims family hasn't sued a school district or a state for denying citizens their rights to carry
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • Gary SGary S Posts: 2,697 Captain
    Ok and how many of these "full time, well trained individual who is proficient in crisis management and weapon control." individuals are you going to put at every school in the country? Are they going to be required in charter schools? And I know this is going to sound bad, but how is this going to be paid for. Public schools have been losing money to charter schools for years. Charter schools were first started with the agreement that they would provide buildings and teachers and state would provide monies to teach students. Now charter schools are getting money from public school budgets to maintain the charter schools.
     
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    Gary S said:
    Ok and how many of these "full time, well trained individual who is proficient in crisis management and weapon control." individuals are you going to put at every school in the country? Are they going to be required in charter schools? And I know this is going to sound bad, but how is this going to be paid for. Public schools have been losing money to charter schools for years. Charter schools were first started with the agreement that they would provide buildings and teachers and state would provide monies to teach students. Now charter schools are getting money from public school budgets to maintain the charter schools.
     
    It would have to depend on the individual location's layout. The money will be "found" if enough outcry is raised.  To me this isn't really a money issue. It's about the children of America being safe in schools.

    That said, I can think of a lot of areas where spending could be curtailed and the monies transferred. But that's a whole 'nother topic.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,873 Captain
    It **** well is a "money issue" and always has been and will be.

    Of course a huge segment of the "politicians" want to use "voluntary resources" to cover this.

    God forbid they may have to agree to fund something with a "penny of new tax money", ain't gonna happen.

  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,443 AG
    To me it doesn't make sense to turn our schools into fortified prisons with armed guards in the classroom considering there are lots of other places kids gather.

    Also, why are we just talking about the safety of schools and children, when a Las Vegas or Pulse scenario is just as relevant?


  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 13,742 Moderator
    It **** well is a "money issue" and always has been and will be.

    Of course a huge segment of the "politicians" want to use "voluntary resources" to cover this.

    God forbid they may have to agree to fund something with a "penny of new tax money", ain't gonna happen.

    Everything in the world is a money issue if you want to look at it that way.

    New "taxes" are put into play every day/week/month whether they are fees, tolls, the ever popular SPLOST, etc.

    Take a billion or 2 bucks out of foreign aid. Quit lining the pockets of despots around the world. It's not really doing most of the countries any good. (But that's another story.)

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    MGTeacher said:
    I'm going to give my opinion. First a little background, I'm a honorably discharged veteran, have a CCW permit, and have been teaching for 17 years. I teach in a rural middle school, in my hometown. 
    My wife (also a teacher), and I have discussed whether or not I should "sign-up" to carry at school if given the right. At first, I was all in, and would sign-up for the training if available. But, after watching the news, looking at news websites, social media, and hearing (I don't watch) about all the daytime shows that break down every move, and word someone who is involved in a shooting is put through, I'm not sure.
    What I mean for example, if you are armed and engage with an active shooter, if your actions even results in an injury to a student (not the shooter) you will be held liable. Your life will be investigated by the media (liberal and conservative), and you and your family will be smeared forever. They don't care if what they report is true or not, these parasites will report hearsay as facts. Ask Trump. You can never unsay something.
    What should one do?
    I agree with you. And so does someone I know who was an Army Ranger and is a school teacher now. 
     The Hell that would be unleashed on someone who engaged a shooter would be unmerciful. 
     We both agreed that it would be best to just save yourself and let the chips fall. 
     And that is a sad commentary on this society. 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 36,557 AG
    fish_stix said:
    cadman said:
    Did I say I didn't agree? about soft targets? I don't recollect that.

    I'm simply saying trained professionals should provide the security not volunteers. And I wanted to know if the proponents of teachers being armed had ever faced what the proponents were advocating.
    As I said on the other thread, I am not in favor of teachers being armed. There are some that could do it with training, but the issue is liability. As MGteacher brought up, an accidental shooting of a student would bring up massive negative publicity and a huge liability issue, If I was in that situation, I would not carry unless the school system agreed to insure me against any liability issues and provide legal defense if needed. Once teachers start carrying, there will be a lawsuit sooner or later and every teacher will suffer for it, It is a bad decision, 

    The unarmed teacher won't have to worry about liability if all they can do is lay there with the kids and let some mental **** shoot them. I'd prefer that my kids teachers that were willing and able would be armed and prepared to protect the kids and themselves. If a teacher doesn't feel confident there's no law that says they have to carry. There are many, many teachers who are military vets and retired police officers; I wouldn't have a problem with any of them carrying nor would I have a problem with a motivated teacher of any background getting the training and carrying.
    How would you feel if the armed teacher accidentally shot your kid? 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

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