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The Parkland thread

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  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited March 2018 #212
    It appears that the focus is on purchase rather than own or possess.  This should allay some of your concerns, like beer does.  :)
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    It appears that the focus is on purchase rather than own or possess.  This should allay some of your concerns, like beer does.  :)
    Today maybe. And the next time when some waste of human hide shoots some place up and uses an American Sporting Rifle that was previously owned,,,,,the progressives will do what they do best,,, they will use hyperbole in an effort to continue down the path of incrementalism.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    Making our country an incrementally safer place is a worthy goal.  As is protecting our citizen's rights.  It's when those two things are at odds that we struggle to find compromise. 

    There's nothing hyperbolic about the dead bodies that result....except perhaps the graph of their number.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    edited March 2018 #215
    Making our country an incrementally safer place is a worthy goal.  As is protecting our citizen's rights.  It's when those two things are at odds that we struggle to find compromise. 

    There's nothing hyperbolic about the dead bodies that result....except perhaps the graph of their number.
    It is absolutely hyperbole. When compared to almost every other class of firearm the American Sporting Rifle is among the most innocuous when the absolute numbers are viewed in a sane manner. 

    Before some shallow thinker rolls out the would you want to be shot with one????? idiotic argument,,,,,, I would hope to never be shot by any firearm. The best way to prevent that is to improve the stock of the human herd and stop spending time trying to take liberty away from the populous. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • WalleyeSashimiWalleyeSashimi CanadaPosts: 24 Greenhorn
    Man... threads like this make me glad to be Canadian. 
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    fins4me said:
    Making our country an incrementally safer place is a worthy goal.  As is protecting our citizen's rights.  It's when those two things are at odds that we struggle to find compromise. 

    There's nothing hyperbolic about the dead bodies that result....except perhaps the graph of their number.
    It is absolutely is hyperbole. When compared to almost every other class of firearm the American Sporting Rifle is among the most innocuous when the absolute numbers are viewed in a sane manner. 

    Before some shallow thinker rolls out the would you want to be shot with one????? idiotic argument,,,,,, I would hope to never be shot by any firearm. The best way to prevent that is to improve the stock of the human herd and stop spending time trying to take liberty away from the populous. 
    It's not hyperbole when you look at recent mass shootings.  To the contrary, your "American Sporting Rifle" is at the top of the list.

    And for what it's worth, I don't disagree with you the best way to prevent these types of things is to improve the "stock of the human herd", but the reality is that humans are a murderous bunch.  We always have been, and I suspect we always will be.

    Which is part of the reason that you can't go out and buy a bazooka or machine gun without additional regulation.  And as much as you seem to think that regulating ARs like those weapons is a loss of liberty, I will simply point out your liberty has survived without those more dangerous weapons.

    Take care....Mike
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Actually I would love to own a SAW or a collectable Thompson and should be able to do so without having to jump through the hoops hung by the federal government.  So yes my liberty has been diminished. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited March 2018 #219
    Unless you are much older than I think you are, you never had that liberty in the first place, so it was never "diminished"....which is the point.

    I'd prefer a silenced MP5, personally.
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    edited March 2018 #220
    fins4me said:
    Actually I would love to own a SAW or a collectable Thompson and should be able to do so without having to jump through the hoops hung by the federal government.  So yes my liberty has been diminished. 
    When I was a young man, I could never understand how throughout history dictators had been able come to power in a country of millions.

    When I see threads like this, and how giddy some are at the thought of having gov't bureaucrats control them, the answer becomes clear.......and it's scary.

    Benjamin Franklin was spot on with his famous quote.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Unless you are much older than I think you are, you never had that liberty in the first place, so it was never "diminished"....which is the point.

    I'd prefer a silenced MP5, personally.
    My liberties and every other citizen of this nation living then or born later were reduced by the 1934 National Firearms Act. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    fins4me said:
    Unless you are much older than I think you are, you never had that liberty in the first place, so it was never "diminished"....which is the point.

    I'd prefer a silenced MP5, personally.
    My liberties and every other citizen of this nation living then or born later were reduced by the 1934 National Firearms Act. 
    That's a bit better.

    However, somehow we've survived with such reduced liberty....

    It's not the 1780s any more.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited March 2018 #223
    fins4me said:
    Actually I would love to own a SAW or a collectable Thompson and should be able to do so without having to jump through the hoops hung by the federal government.  So yes my liberty has been diminished. 
    When I was a young man, I could never understand how throughout history dictators had been able come to power in a country of millions.

    When I see threads like this, and how giddy some are at the thought of having gov't bureaucrats control them, the answer becomes clear.......and it's scary.
    Who is giddy?

    Do you think that dictators come to power through regulating semi-automatic weapons?  If so, kindly share examples.

    Of course there are none, and that's just you engaging in hyperbole.
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    Who is giddy?

    Do you think that dictators come to power through regulating semi-automatic weapons?  If so, kindly share examples.

    Of course there are none, and that's just you engaging in hyperbole.
    Stop being so defensive.....it's one of your tells.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited March 2018 #225
    Fair enough.

    I'd have ignored those questions if I were you as well.
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    Throughout History....the results are always the same...remove the weapons from those you seek to oppress.

    Venezuela bans private gun ownership

    • 1 June 2012

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-18288430


  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    edited March 2018 #227

    How Venezuela went from a rich democracy to a dictatorship

    Sep 19, 2017,

    https://www.vox.com/world/2017/9/19/16189742/venezuela-maduro-dictator-chavez-collapse

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited March 2018 #228
    Curious.  I don't see how banning private ownership of weapons -- something nobody in this argument is advocating -- has anything to do with putting additional regulations on semi-automatic assault rifles.  Unless, of course, you were only speaking in hyperbole.

    You should have probably just ignored it.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited March 2018 #229
    p.s. the Venezuela example is an ironic one.  At the risk of getting too political, that's what happens when you allow a populist demagogue to con the people and take over a government.  Thankfully we have checks and balances in this country (including the 2nd amendment), and a much more diversified economy, but the parallels are a bit too obvious to gloss over.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Curious.  I don't see how banning private ownership of weapons -- something nobody in this argument is advocating -- has anything to do with putting additional regulations on semi-automatic assault rifles.  Unless, of course, you were only speaking in hyperbole.

    You should have probably just ignored it.
    There is hardly a day that goes by without someone appearing on one of the major networks exclaiming the need for a ban on American Sporting Rifles and the common magazines used with them.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,462 Officer
    fins4me said:
    RStyle said:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018m/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

    This is enough for me to think that these firearms should not be easier to obtain than Sudafed or renting a car.
    They are not necessary for home protection and should not be available to the general population. You could do like they do a Japan...shooting ranges have lockers where you keep them secured and when you get in the mood you can go use it at the range as much as you want....................although I am sure the fanatics will say that this is a liberal freak leftist doctor that was payed to write this and no doubt prompted by CNN .
    The thought that it is ok for a kid or your son (or actually anyone except the enemy during war) going through this type of trauma is sickening
    My shooting range is on my own property. I don't think I will allow you to lock any of my firearms away from me in order to provide a false sense of calm for you or anyone else. 

    And the second amendment is not referring to hunting, target shooting or even personal defense against an intruder. It is meant for defense of the nation against outside or inside forces bent on taking away liberty. Something you seem amiable toward.

    I shoot heroin in my own backyard, I will not let you take my heroin, which has not killed anyone, away from me to provide a false sense of calm for you or anyone else.
    I am am a superb driver and have done amateur races and attended racing school. I will not let anyone tell me I can't drive at 100mph on the Turnpike and take my license away to provide a false sense of calm to you or anyone else.

    Clearly one of the many issues with gun control. It is ME above everyone else including family or friends. If others are killing themselves and kids are getting shot, it is not my problem. The fact that society is a group of individuals with common goals is true as long as it does not affect ME.

    The truth is that if the government ever wanted your guns (which is not part of the discussion) they could have them.
    Unless you are ready to battle with Marines, Seals, tanks, jets or maybe just your local SWAT Team.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    fins4me said:
    Curious.  I don't see how banning private ownership of weapons -- something nobody in this argument is advocating -- has anything to do with putting additional regulations on semi-automatic assault rifles.  Unless, of course, you were only speaking in hyperbole.

    You should have probably just ignored it.
    There is hardly a day that goes by without someone appearing on one of the major networks exclaiming the need for a ban on American Sporting Rifles and the common magazines used with them.
    Banning private ownership of weapons != banning assault rifles or 30 round magazines
  • WalleyeSashimiWalleyeSashimi CanadaPosts: 24 Greenhorn
    Man... all I can say is, on behalf of Canadians, I'm really sorry to the people who have to try to make rational arguments as to why people shouldn't be allowed to have assault rifles...
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,334 AG
    Man... all I can say is, on behalf of Canadians, I'm really sorry to the people who have to try to make rational arguments as to why people shouldn't be allowed to have assault rifles...
    And we are all super happy that your country didn’t give you the right to self defense. 
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    edited March 2018 #235
    It appears that the focus is on purchase rather than own or possess.  This should allay some of your concerns, like beer does.  :)
    If it is against the law to purchase something why wouldn't it be illegal to posses it? Or is that to complicated for you to process?
     What happens to a 19 year old in possession of a six pack of beer?
    Put down your bong.


  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited March 2018 #236
    It appears that the focus is on purchase rather than own or possess.  This should allay some of your concerns, like beer does.  :)
    If it is against the law to purchase something why wouldn't it be illegal to posses it? Or is that to complicated for you to process?
    Is current gun law too complicated to process for you?  You know, the same law that limits purchase but allows for possession.

    But that's OK, because the Florida State Senate was able to figure it out.  They passed sweeping legislation today:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/florida-shooting-gunman-indicted.html

    "The legislation, which passed the State Senate on Monday and now heads to the governor, would raise the minimum age to purchase any firearm to 21 from 18; impose a three-day waiting period on gun purchases; fund school police officers and mental health counselors; and allow local school districts and sheriffs to arm certain school personnel. It would also ban so-called bump stocks, which make guns fire faster, and give law enforcement more power to commit people deemed a threat."

    Curiously enough, this multi-pronged approach sounds an awful lot like the position some around here have been advocating for -- and, as we have been discussing, you can still keep your guns.

  • WalleyeSashimiWalleyeSashimi CanadaPosts: 24 Greenhorn
    dave44 said:
    Man... all I can say is, on behalf of Canadians, I'm really sorry to the people who have to try to make rational arguments as to why people shouldn't be allowed to have assault rifles...
    And we are all super happy that your country didn’t give you the right to self defense. 
    Oddly enough, we seem to need it a lot less...
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    edited March 2018 #238
    Rstyle your long suspected heroin addiction is not a constitutionally protected right. Hope you land a big dose soon however.

    Your reckless driving isn't either. You however seem awfully snowflakeish so I doubt you ever break 55.

    The fact that you have warped visions of Marines and SWAT teams kicking in the doors of US citizens homes in an effort to scrape up all those scary rifles speaks volumes about what kind of person you are and what little you stand for beyond your heroin induced meltdowns.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,334 AG
    dave44 said:
    Man... all I can say is, on behalf of Canadians, I'm really sorry to the people who have to try to make rational arguments as to why people shouldn't be allowed to have assault rifles...
    And we are all super happy that your country didn’t give you the right to self defense. 
    Oddly enough, we seem to need it a lot less...
    I guess it has nothing to do with your proximity to the US border? It’s good to have protection.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    fins4me said:
    Curious.  I don't see how banning private ownership of weapons -- something nobody in this argument is advocating -- has anything to do with putting additional regulations on semi-automatic assault rifles.  Unless, of course, you were only speaking in hyperbole.

    You should have probably just ignored it.
    There is hardly a day that goes by without someone appearing on one of the major networks exclaiming the need for a ban on American Sporting Rifles and the common magazines used with them.
    Banning private ownership of weapons != banning assault rifles or 30 round magazines
    Well at least you got one thing right during this discussion.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited March 2018 #241
    fins4me said:
    Rstyle your long suspected heroin addiction is not a constitutionally protected right. Hope you land a big dose soon however.

    Your reckless driving isn't either. You however seem awfully snowflakeish so I doubt you ever break 55.

    The fact that you have warped visions of Marines and SWAT teams kicking in the doors of US citizens homes in an effort to scrape up all those scary rifles speaks volumes about what kind of person you are and what little you stand for beyond your heroin induced meltdowns.
    I would argue one's right to pursue happiness (even in substance abuse) is more constitutionally protected than your right to own an assault weapon.

    And if you don't realize he's speaking metaphorically, Fins, I'm not quite sure what to say.

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