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$1000+ Stella, Why?

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  • I'll PM you my address and you can send me all the pocket change you want.. wouldn't want you to be weighed down with piddly pocket change.. LOL

    PM me a picture and I hope your not Plus Sized..Lot's of Curves .Double D's to your knees....
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • Skinny RunningSkinny Running Posts: 73 Greenhorn
    I used to have some Stellas. They were awesome for a year or so but then I found they just did not hold up and started to have issues. I was surprised. Got a little sticky, not quite as smooth etc. and even stopped being silent as it was designed So I stopped and got the much less expensive Quantum reels and they have been perfect and consistent for a couple of years and running now. Less than 1/2 the price too. But I did try one of those super expensive Daiwa spinners with the mag seal and floating bearings and I have to say it has held up and is awesome. Much better than the Stella and is a pleasure to use. 3x the cost of a Quantum but it feels 3x better to me and that is saying something because the Quantum is really good.
  • greyreefsharkgreyreefshark Posts: 554 Officer
    — “My stupid in laws who don’t work think $100 is the best Christmas ever.”

    —————————————————
    I wouldn’t mind a $100 for Christmas. 😊
  • waldnerrwaldnerr Posts: 1,040 Officer

    Hemmingway has pictures of him trashed drunk with a wooden rod and some absurd metal chunk reel and huge marlin and tuna haha I lost interest in price of equipment after that

    Hemingway's "metal chunk" reels were from Fin-Nor's "Legacy" Big Game Series. There's nothing absurd about them - they were some of the strongest reels ever built, and many are still in use. The two- and three-speed models had a rather clumsy mechanism for changing gears, but the reels were bazooka-proof if their drags were properly maintained. Watch Murray Bros. film on fishing for giant bluefin tuna and you'll see how "ridiculous" these reels are. Here's a little background https://www.finnorfishing.com/legacy - and, perhaps, check this out:https://www.ebay.com/itm/UNUSUAL-Vintage-FIN-NOR-15-0-Big-Game-fishing-reel-Legacy-period/132475482082?hash=item1ed8276fe2:g:3P8AAOSwcuZaYUFs (forget the price - read the description). If you know anything about the history of big game angling, you'll recognize the names of those who used Fin-Nor reels.
  • SaltySardineSaltySardine Posts: 159 Deckhand
    ^ a Ford Model T was top tech of its day too - but compared to a base model Honda Civic - the model T is still in the stone age. Mustang P51 was unstoppable for a hot while...

    just because they were top of the line back then does not mean they are good to today's standards and are now "hunks of metal" in relation to today's market. So if a guy could cross an ocean in a wooden schooner with no compass 300 years ago, I have no interest in buying a top of the line expedition yacht.


    That said - if I wake up and see myself in Forbes - you bet I'm going to contract Boeing to make me some custom reels using space age technology.

    also to the Bayliner post - it is because you can't get a victoria secret model to fish with you on a Bayliner.
  • waldnerrwaldnerr Posts: 1,040 Officer
    Neither P-51 Mustangs nor Ford Model T's are in use today, outside of specialized venues. Fin-Nor Legacy reels are still in daily use and account for several all-tackle world records, including Alfred Glassell's 1560 lb. black marlin. You're comparing apples and oranges. It might be wise to learn something about fishing tackle prior to making comments about "absurd metal chunks" that are some of the finest big game reels ever made, and that represent an important part of angling history.
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 10,931 AG
    ^ a Ford Model T was top tech of its day too - but compared to a base model Honda Civic - the model T is still in the stone age. Mustang P51 was unstoppable for a hot while...

    just because they were top of the line back then does not mean they are good to today's standards and are now "hunks of metal" in relation to today's market. So if a guy could cross an ocean in a wooden schooner with no compass 300 years ago, I have no interest in buying a top of the line expedition yacht.


    That said - if I wake up and see myself in Forbes - you bet I'm going to contract Boeing to make me some custom reels using space age technology.

    also to the Bayliner post - it is because you can't get a victoria secret model to fish with you on a Bayliner.

    If you want to compare Hemingway's reel to an air frame think DC 3
  • SaltySardineSaltySardine Posts: 159 Deckhand
    waldnerr wrote: »
    Neither P-51 Mustangs nor Ford Model T's are in use today, outside of specialized venues. Fin-Nor Legacy reels are still in daily use and account for several all-tackle world records, including Alfred Glassell's 1560 lb. black marlin. You're comparing apples and oranges. It might be wise to learn something about fishing tackle prior to making comments about "absurd metal chunks" that are some of the finest big game reels ever made, and that represent an important part of angling history.


    That was 1952. I do not consider this "today" in regards to "still in use". Name the most recent record that someone was using the same reel Ernest was? Go walk any dock at a large Billfish tournament and ask what reels those guys are using. I guarantee NO ONE is using a reel that Hemingway used. That reel is OLD TECH. Great for the 1950's sure, but not today.

    P51s were some of the finest planes ever made - but walk aboard any naval carrier and no one is doing recon missions with those. Apples to Apples my friend, and Oranges to Oranges.

    P51's are absurd hunks of metal now and so are reels that Hemingway used.
    Now again - if I wake up and see myself in Forbes - I will buy a reel he used from a museum and gladly enter into a million dollar billfish tournament and would love to be proven wrong. Until then, I think Ill use my barbie rod :wink

    Edit: DC3 is probably a better comparison yes haha
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 19,408 AG
    I wonder if someone knows the original price of Hemmigway's Fin-Nor's "Legacy" Big Game Series reels.

    Perhaps we might price adjust it to today's dollars.

    I suspect it wasn't cheap.
  • waldnerrwaldnerr Posts: 1,040 Officer
    The main reason 40- to 60-year-old Fin-Nors are not more commonly used today is that parts are difficult to come by, unless one knows the right person. They are still stronger than most "modern" reels; very few Tiagras, Internationals, Everols, Alutecnos's, Accurates, etc., will likely be in service after this amount of time. I've seen the drags on three Accurates "lock up" right out of the box. The fact is that what you flippantly describe as a "metal chunk" is still capable of holding up to the most severe battles at least as well as any of the shinier, "modern" reels you seem to put so much stock in. Just FYI, Glassell's record has never been broken. It may not be recent, but it's definitely got staying power. I don't have a list of current records and the reels the fishes were caught on, but I'm certain several were on Fin-Nors. Although I own many large Internationals, Shimanos, and an Everol, I still have several Fin-Nors as well, and would choose a Fin-Nor over the others., in terms of reliability. According to Fin-Nor, over 900 IGFA records have been caught on their reels. I don't know how many of these were caught on the Legacy models.
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,086 Officer
    Tarponator wrote: »
    I wonder if someone knows the original price of Hemmigway's Fin-Nor's "Legacy" Big Game Series reels.

    Perhaps we might price adjust it to today's dollars.

    I suspect it wasn't cheap.

    A little over 20 years ago. a very good friend sold a collection of antique big game reels and bamboo rods. There were several two handle (double crankers - you could reel with both hands at the same time) and many Finn Nor big game reels. In total I want to say that there were maybe 25 outfits. Just to give you an idea. You could have bought a house in cash,for what the collection sold for.

    Here's a link to prices I'm not sure if these prices are current: http://www.antiquereels.com/Reels_2014/Reel_collection_2014_page_1.htm
  • waldnerrwaldnerr Posts: 1,040 Officer
    Tarponator wrote: »
    I wonder if someone knows the original price of Hemmigway's Fin-Nor's "Legacy" Big Game Series reels.

    Perhaps we might price adjust it to today's dollars.

    I suspect it wasn't cheap.

    Absolutely! Just before they stopped manufacturing them, I saw a 12/0 standard two-speed listing for $1995.00. My brother-in-law lucked into a 12/0 tri-gear for $1000. a few years back. I believe I paid $600. for my 12/0 standard a few years ago; I bought it from Capt. Laurie Wright in Cairnes. It was one of his black marlin reels, along with two other Fin-Nor 12/0's.
  • benwah22benwah22 Posts: 268 Deckhand
    A little over 20 years ago. a very good friend sold a collection of antique big game reels and bamboo rods. There were several two handle (double crankers - you could reel with both hands at the same time) and many Finn Nor big game reels. In total I want to say that there were maybe 25 outfits. Just to give you an idea. You could have bought a house in cash,for what the collection sold for.

    Here's a link to prices I'm not sure if these prices are current: http://www.antiquereels.com/Reels_2014/Reel_collection_2014_page_1.htm

    I've seen some of Tom's collection in person. It's amazing stuff.
    Instagram:  @mrbennyortiz
    Shimano
    AFTCO
    Slow Pitch Jigger
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  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,265 AG
    Nobody will be fishing with some Japanese junk Stella...60 or 70 years from now...that is as safe a bet...as a bet can get.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • SaltySardineSaltySardine Posts: 159 Deckhand
    Ok - I think we are missing the point i was trying to make.

    I agree to all of this. YES those were the "stella's" of their time. YES they were expensive for their time. YES they were cream of the crop for their time. YES they had better innovation, pieces, machinery, specs, etc for their time. I agree. Those were the high performers of their time.

    However - today - in the year of our lord 2018 compared to the reels on the market - they are hunks of metal. The margins and variances were, I'm sure, to today's machining specs wide. They did the job for their time quite well yes, but compared to today's market, absolutely stone age.

    So my reference to "once I saw the hunk of metal heminway used, price is nothing to me now". He caught massive fish with what we would, technologically today, call junk. This would be akin to the first Indy car race - the guys car went an average of 56 mph. Top dog in 1909. This was fast as shi*. However, to todays specs in the indy world, his car is the aforementioned "junk".


    This was the point I was trying to say haha I think that got lost in forum confusion and we have been arguing over differing interpretations of what I meant.

    Waldnerr - I am not a fan of any pricey reel because I can't justify it. That is me though. I use Penn reels and not the baller ones
  • SaltySardineSaltySardine Posts: 159 Deckhand
    A fishing reel was offered at the Angling Auctions in London for $58,000 in 2011. The baitcaster, referred to as “The Holy Grail” of reels, was built by Graham Turner, a lifelong collector of fishing accouterments.

    anyone find any info on this sucker?
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,086 Officer
    Ok - I think we are missing the point i was trying to make.

    I agree to all of this. YES those were the "stella's" of their time. YES they were expensive for their time. YES they were cream of the crop for their time. YES they had better innovation, pieces, machinery, specs, etc for their time. I agree. Those were the high performers of their time.

    However - today - in the year of our lord 2018 compared to the reels on the market - they are hunks of metal. The margins and variances were, I'm sure, to today's machining specs wide. They did the job for their time quite well yes, but compared to today's market, absolutely stone age.

    So my reference to "once I saw the hunk of metal heminway used, price is nothing to me now". He caught massive fish with what we would, technologically today, call junk. This would be akin to the first Indy car race - the guys car went an average of 56 mph. Top dog in 1909. This was fast as shi*. However, to todays specs in the indy world, his car is the aforementioned "junk".


    This was the point I was trying to say haha I think that got lost in forum confusion and we have been arguing over differing interpretations of what I meant.

    Waldnerr - I am not a fan of any pricey reel because I can't justify it. That is me though. I use Penn reels and not the baller ones

    I try to make this pretty simple. I'm of the opinion that using a Stella, won't land you one of those granders that were landed using the so called hunk of metal. no matter how advanced todays technology is.

    I'm not a fan of the show but I doubt that the guys on the Tuna show could land one of those Prince Williams Island tunas using a stella.
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,086 Officer
    benwah22 wrote: »
    I've seen some of Tom's collection in person. It's amazing stuff.


    I glad somebody knew what I was talking about. He always said that his retirement was hanging on the ceiling. Your right amazing stuff! What a cool little store. Tight lines... Pete
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 12,192 AG
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Nobody will be fishing with some Japanese junk Stella...60 or 70 years from now...that is as safe a bet...as a bet can get.

    I can't fathom any modern reel on the planet that one will be using 60 and 70 years from now. Heck, I'll be dead in 60 to 70 years, so I won't be using any of my reels. My nicer Shimano reels are 10 years old and still working great. I can't speak about the Stella, but the Sustain and Stradic models are worth the money.
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
  • waldnerrwaldnerr Posts: 1,040 Officer
    Ok - I think we are missing the point i was trying to make.

    I agree to all of this. YES those were the "stella's" of their time. YES they were expensive for their time. YES they were cream of the crop for their time. YES they had better innovation, pieces, machinery, specs, etc for their time. I agree. Those were the high performers of their time.

    However - today - in the year of our lord 2018 compared to the reels on the market - they are hunks of metal. The margins and variances were, I'm sure, to today's machining specs wide. They did the job for their time quite well yes, but compared to today's market, absolutely stone age.

    So my reference to "once I saw the hunk of metal heminway used, price is nothing to me now". He caught massive fish with what we would, technologically today, call junk. This would be akin to the first Indy car race - the guys car went an average of 56 mph. Top dog in 1909. This was fast as shi*. However, to todays specs in the indy world, his car is the aforementioned "junk".


    This was the point I was trying to say haha I think that got lost in forum confusion and we have been arguing over differing interpretations of what I meant.

    Waldnerr - I am not a fan of any pricey reel because I can't justify it. That is me though. I use Penn reels and not the baller ones

    I'm afraid that what you don't understand is that many of the "hunks of metal" you referred to are still going strong today and, in some ways, are better built than "modern" reels. Look at the forward and rear braces that many "modern" reels sport, to prevent their reel seats from bending. Now look at an older Fin-Nor of any size. No braces - they weren't needed. Put some "modern" big game reels in gear with a heavy drag, and the spool bearings begin to bind, due to sideways pressure on the bearing races. Not on a Fin-Nor Legacy, though. Modern reels usually need to be taken out of gear to set their drag ranges. Not Fin-Nor Legacy models - the knob at the top of the drag lever can be set at any drag setting, not that this is normally necessary. The Fin-Nors fall short on a few points - having a multi-piece frame (but I've never heard of one binding), weight, and a clumsy gear ratio changing mechanism - but otherwise they're every bit as good as, if not better than, any "modern" reel, and better than many. Maybe show a bit of respect for the tools that brought big game angling to where it is today.
  • SaltySardineSaltySardine Posts: 159 Deckhand

    ^ if you have a wife, she is going to get jealous of the love you have for those hunks of metal. I am willing to bet you don't speak of her with such love and affection. As for the reels, yep - I don't see any guys winning tournaments with them so therefore they do not deserve the respect you require. Show me a guy who wins a current/future billfish tournament with one, and Ill show you me on one knee apologizing to you. Until then. Nope.
    :D

  • waldnerrwaldnerr Posts: 1,040 Officer

    Love - no. Appreciation - yep! I've won or placed in over half of the 30+ tournaments I've entered, and I use Fin-Nors, along with Shimanos, Penns, and Avets when fishing offshore tournaments, so let the kneeling begin. I'm guessing that you don't look far beyond your own backyard when it comes to tournaments. Fin-Nors are still used in Cairns, Australia for black marlin, but less and less because parts are very difficult to obtain. That's the only reason Capt. Laurie Wright gave up the 12/0 I bought from him (I have a source for old Fin-Nor parts). How many tournaments have you seen that have been won by anglers using Avet, Alutecnos, or Everol reels - all of which are "modern," by your standards, and are solid reels despite not winning many tournaments? Old Internationals and Everols are still in use - and these were manufactured concurrently with Fin-Nor Legacy reels. The main reason more Legacy Fin-Nors aren't still in use is the lack of availability of parts, as I mentioned previously. I'm sure folks pining for newer, shinier reels - such as yourself - is another reason - "the grass is always greener" syndrome. If you judge the quality of a reel only by seeing what wins local tournaments, you're being very short-sighted. I'm sure you've never held a Fin-Nor Legacy reel or you'd know better than to make some of the comments you have - you couldn't even recognize one in a photograph. Turn the handle of one that's in good shape and it'll make most of your "modern" reels feel like coffee grinders. "Hunk of metal" indeed! When you mature, I really hope you gain an appreciation for angling history and fine reels - whatever their age.

  • SaltySardineSaltySardine Posts: 159 Deckhand
    edited January 2018 #54

    ^ My friend - Hem fished a lot in the 1930's.
    NO ONE IS FISHING MILLION DOLLAR TOURNAMENTS WITH 90 YEAR OLD REELS.

    Im sure they use Fin Nors that are designed that same. Im sure they get half chubs doing it. Those reels just aren't 90 years old. Im sorry to kill your buzz.

    If they vote to allow people to marry objects - I will vote Yes so you can walk a 90 year old reel to the alter and tattoo Fin Nor on your arm

  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG

    I’m sure those $1000 reels are made in China??
    The profit margin must be at least 80 percent?

  • Jack HexterJack Hexter New Port RicheyPosts: 5,526 Moderator
    edited January 2018 #56

    Dr Ray. Arguing with this guy is like banging your head against the wall. I'm sorry, but all my Fin-Nor Big Game reels were stolen from my shed after Andrew. I still have and use 2 FinNor #3 Fly reels. Yes, they are old and heavy, but how often does one cast to a tarpon during the day, and they have the smoothest drag I've ever used. Old and heavy does not necessarily make something bad.

    I have a friend who used to fish the tunas off of Chub, as well as marlin out of Bimini. Penn 120 for marlin and FinNor 12/0's for the tuna. Eventually he stopped using the FinNors. And like you said, the reason he stopped using the FinNors was parts availability. And this was when FinNor was at the SW corner of MIA. If a FinNor broke, it had to go back to the factory for them to machine the part, because there were no computer run lathes, each part was measured and hand made. If a Penn part broke, chances are that if you did not have the part on your boat, a neighbor boat had it.

  • waldnerrwaldnerr Posts: 1,040 Officer

    That's the conclusion I've reached, too, Jack. It's hard to cure ignorance! I still have a few Fin-Nor Legacy reels hanging around - a 4/0, 7.5/0, three 9/0's, and one of Laurie Wright's three 12/0's. I also have several 12/20 Golden Regals and a #3 wedding cake. If I had to choose between an International and a Fin-Nor Legacy in similar condition, I'd still choose the Fin-Nor. The feel of the reels is incomparable. I befriended the former head of customer service at Fin-Nor, and he had parts for the later Legacies. When I bought the 12/0, he overhauled the reel - new gears, bearings, etc. - for under $200. The reel feels terrific now - smooth, and with that amazing Fin-Nor drag. It's terrible that yours were stolen. BTW, I still have the "Black Mac" Seamaster Tarpon that you sent me information on!

  • johnDjohnD WC FLPosts: 6,427 Admiral

    @mustang190 said:
    I’m sure those $1000 reels are made in China??
    The profit margin must be at least 80 percent?

    japan...so yeah , 75% margin , lol.

  • Jack HexterJack Hexter New Port RicheyPosts: 5,526 Moderator
    edited January 2018 #59

    Dr Ray, Sadly, the source of the history on the black Seamaster, Tom Rech, died last year.

    But, Tom had a vast collection of old FinNor and other big game rods and reels, double crankers, etc., very similar to Tom Greene. At one point he sold his entire collection to a motel , II believe somewhere in the Carolina's, or New York. Pete Silot (Saltwater Junkie) may recall where it was sold. We were both close to Tom. He also collected Seamaster's and FinNor Wedding Cake's. I don't think the fly reels were sold. Then he started anew and had a very good collection at the time of his death.

  • waldnerrwaldnerr Posts: 1,040 Officer

    That's very sad to hear, Jack. I know Tommy Greene's collection, but I never met Tom Rech, or saw his reels. However, the assemblage of Seamasters he displayed on the business card you sent to me was impressive and said a lot about his passion for fine tackle. The Black Mac is still going strong!

  • bottom feederbottom feeder Posts: 1,707 Captain

    Thank you for your contribution Dr Waldnerr it's always a pleasure to read your words of wisdom.

    Leaving Florida... take a developer with you!

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