Inshore gag grouper rigs

What is your rig for live lining baitfish for grouper inshore (skyway). I’ve never fished for grouper before, but I hear you need to really fight them to get them out of the rocks so 60 pound test and above are not uncommon. One of the rigs I was thinking of using a 3′ section of 60 pound mono attached to a 4x 7/0 or 8/0 gamagatsu circle hook. Is this an okay rig? The second is the same but with 40 pound line instead of 60 pound. I want to use 40 pound because ill be bringing down my 10′ surf fishing rod that i use for stripers up here in NY, and that should let me go down in weight.

Ill take any other tips if you are willing to give them.

Replies

  • Kokosing LoverKokosing Lover Posts: 549 Officer
    That 10' rod will do you no favors fishing from the skyway; that length of rod will give enough ground just from bending to let the grouper get to the rocks. A stiff 7' rod will serve you better. Casting distance is not as big of an issue since you will be letting the bait go to the rocks using the outgoing tide.
  • ATbuckhunterATbuckhunter Posts: 23 Greenhorn
    That 10' rod will do you no favors fishing from the skyway; that length of rod will give enough ground just from bending to let the grouper get to the rocks. A stiff 7' rod will serve you better. Casting distance is not as big of an issue since you will be letting the bait go to the rocks using the outgoing tide.

    Hmm I would have never thought that a 10' rod would be a disadvantage. I appreciate the advice.
  • Marty McFlyMarty McFly Posts: 61 Greenhorn
    Hmm I would have never thought that a 10' rod would be a disadvantage. I appreciate the advice.

    I'm going to disagree with the former poster. A nicely built 10' will work just fine. Can I ask what reel you have it paired on and the rod rating (rec. lure weight and line class)? I did pretty well on gags from land this fall/winter using a 9' custom rod for snook jigging.
  • ATbuckhunterATbuckhunter Posts: 23 Greenhorn
    I'm going to disagree with the former poster. A nicely built 10' will work just fine. Can I ask what reel you have it paired on and the rod rating (rec. lure weight and line class)? I did pretty well on gags from land this fall/winter using a 9' custom rod for snook jigging.

    The rod is a Penn prevail that's rated for 1-5oz and 15-30lb line. The reel is a penn battle in either 6000 or 8000 (can't remember right now) with 300 yards of 65 pound braid.
  • Marty McFlyMarty McFly Posts: 61 Greenhorn
    The rod is a Penn prevail that's rated for 1-5oz and 15-30lb line. The reel is a penn battle in either 6000 or 8000 (can't remember right now) with 300 yards of 65 pound braid.

    Yeah, give it hell. Lock that drag down, make sure your knots are solid, and when you get that take...give that fish zero chance to get his head down. Good luck!
  • ATbuckhunterATbuckhunter Posts: 23 Greenhorn
    Yeah, give it hell. Lock that drag down, make sure your knots are solid, and when you get that take...give that fish zero chance to get his head down. Good luck!

    Appreciate it. If you look at the physics of it, a 10 foot rod gives better leverage than a 7 foot.
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 3,269 Captain
    Appreciate it. If you look at the physics of it, a 10 foot rod gives better leverage than a 7 foot.

    That's not true, KL is right. Long rods that flex near the tip are good for fighting fish on the surface like tarpon and cobia. Nice for sight casting to fish with accuracy. For fighting buttom fish you want a short rod with the flex more in the middle where the thicker part of the blank is. Try for yourself. Get a 5 lb weight and see which is easier to pull up off the floor. Look at a med heavy up to xx heavy jigging rod to pair with your reel. Good luck
    You should have been here yesterday
  • Marty McFlyMarty McFly Posts: 61 Greenhorn
    That's not true, KL is right. Long rods that flex near the tip are good for fighting fish on the surface like tarpon and cobia. Nice for sight casting to fish with accuracy. For fighting buttom fish you want a short rod with the flex more in the middle where the thicker part of the blank is. Try for yourself. Get a 5 lb weight and see which is easier to pull up off the floor. Look at a med heavy up to xx heavy jigging rod to pair with your reel. Good luck

    That depends though on the blank. Those shorter rods are great on boats, but we are talking a pier/bridge here. If its a 9-10' rod with plenty of backbone, you're in good shape. Additionally if the fish wants to run under the pier/bridge downcurrent, that extra length will save you from a break off.

    Here is a great video of a guy using a long rod for nice grouper on the skyway...
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 3,269 Captain
    weather you are on a boat or pier/bridge your fighting fish underneath you. Seriously, try for yourself. Try to pick up a weight with a long and short rod and see which is infinitely easier. Or don't, matters not to me. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there is a reason no one uses 9' rods to bottom fish
    You should have been here yesterday
  • Kokosing LoverKokosing Lover Posts: 549 Officer
    weather you are on a boat or pier/bridge your fighting fish underneath you. Seriously, try for yourself. Try to pick up a weight with a long and short rod and see which is infinitely easier. Or don't, matters not to me. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there is a reason no one uses 9' rods to bottom fish

    I think we're missing the most important point, which Marty alluded to; regardless of rod length, it must have sufficient "backbone" to provide enough leverage. It all comes down to physics here. The length of a lever is measured in a straight line that is perpendicular (90 degrees) to the direction it is exerting force. So the argument over whether a 10', 9', or 7' rod exerts the most leverage is moot, unless all of these rods have no bend or almost identical bend profiles. Not only are we all talking about different rod lengths, but we are talking about different rod types, which gets to my original point. A 10' surf rod is designed for making LONG casts, and these rods have a lot of bend throughout their length to provide enough loading for an effective cast. These rods have a "slow" action, meaning that they curve throughout most of their length rather than having most of the bend happen farther towards the tip, as with "fast" action rods.
    Remember, the strength of the lever is a product of the absolute distance at a 90 degree angle to the force being applied. The force being applied is the horizontal (mostly) pull between fish and fisherman. That makes the length of the lever the vertical distance between the rod butt (or where the hands hold the rod at the fulcrum point) and the rod tip. Refer to the professionally derived figures below: Green lines are rod lengths unbent. Black curves are bent rod length for a long, slow (Fig. 1) and shorter, fast (Fig. 2) rods. The black curved lines are pretty much the same length as the green lines. Now the red lines are the effective length of the lever when placed under load.


    In this case, the shorter rod with faster action has a longer effective length of leverage than the longer slower action rod. Also take note of the difference in horizontal distance between the rod but and rod tip of the fully bent rods. On a 10' rod with this sort of bend, there is about 3-4' of rod bend between angler and fish before the rod can carry the load. That's 3-4' of extra advantage that the gag gets before the drag is even engaged.
  • Kokosing LoverKokosing Lover Posts: 549 Officer
    And yes, I have too much time on my hands right now.
  • clarosaclarosa Posts: 567 Officer
    Perfect diagram KL...it's hard to explain this to people without and actual picture, so thanks for doing that. I don't go any longer than 7'6 o any of my grouper and or bottom fishing rods for this exact reason.
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 3,269 Captain
    KL nailed it. Well done
    You should have been here yesterday
  • KeepnitreelKeepnitreel Posts: 58 Greenhorn
    Have to agree with the guys above....you need a rod with alot of backbone for grouper fishing.......and Id say 60lb braid is a good idea. Im a spinning rod guy.....my grouper rig is essentially a 7ft Ugly Tiger jigging rod with a Penn Spinfisher 7500 loaded with 65lb braid. I use an 10ft piece 80lb florocarbon for leader, 3oz sliding sinker and a 8/0 vmc inline circle hook. Hook on a pinfish and hold on tight!
    Best of luck to you.
  • Marty McFlyMarty McFly Posts: 61 Greenhorn
    weather you are on a boat or pier/bridge your fighting fish underneath you. Seriously, try for yourself. Try to pick up a weight with a long and short rod and see which is infinitely easier. Or don't, matters not to me. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there is a reason no one uses 9' rods to bottom fish

    My point is I have caught grouper on my 9' heavy spin setup. The point regarding boat vs pier/bridge is that the extra length does make a difference if that fish decideds to go back under the bridge.

    Bottom fishing on a boat is not the same as tossing a bait/lure upcurrent/downcurrent and ripping them in. I've caught grouper both ways and I'd never use my 9' on a boat in the same sense I'd never use a 7' on a bridge.

    If the long rod doesn't have good backbone though, it's null and void.
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