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CCA video on water quality

Renagade69 wrote: »
Either you are mechanically inclined ore your not. The fact you had to ask told me that you can not do it. Its ok, not every one has this ability. Some people just have to pay.

Replies

  • HeartNShoalHeartNShoal Posts: 937 Officer
    Is it just me or is that Gelber fellow in the video easy on the eyes?


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  • gladesrunnergladesrunner Posts: 122 Deckhand
    great and informative..........where does the permitting process stand for the $3.3M project to bring existing clean water through the L-31 into Taylor Slough?

    In this important voting season, it would be great if CCA put out a "cheat sheet" on where candidates stand on issues that CCA is supporting and/or driving. Organizations like UTD (United Teachers of Dade, my wife is a teacher:USA) do this to great effect. If info like that is out there, post a link here. If not......
  • JoeBCJoeBC Posts: 608 Officer
    Umm why does the video say a maximum of $200MM can be spent annually on the Glades when the law says a minimum of $200MM must be spent (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2016/0989/BillText/er/PDF)? This is not very accurate and is a shot at Captains for Clean Water and Now or Neverglades folks, most likely coming from the politicians in Tally which they are hurting. I understand that property values changed significantly since Amendment 1 passed and buying the land as was planned is no longer feasible, but why lie about what the Amendment says?
  • kbkeyskbkeys Posts: 691 Officer
    I found that vid pretty confusing at best. I am a CCA member and read through all their emails, but this one had me scratching my head both times I viewed.
  • Pucker FactorPucker Factor Posts: 875 Officer
    Joe, you see, that right there is the problem. The very essence of the problem. You view it as an us versus them issue. Then the labels, like you have applied, begin to fly in an attempt some how to vilify CCA or others that do not hold your/CFCW/BS views of how to restore the Everglades.

    kb . . . what was confusing? There are other issues that affect restoring the everglades that the simple approach of Buying the Land does not even come close to addressing. Buying the Land is NOT a plan. There is strong evidence that would support buying land to the north to treat the water coming into the Lake that is highly elevated in nutrients is the way to go. There are also many other system constraints such as Endangered Species through out the system as well as flood protection that need to be taken into consideration.

    Hold the line on the current plan and look to future opportunities to evaluate storage N/S/E/W of the lake. Many have been lead to believe buying the land SOUTH of the lake will actually have a benefit of reducing the phosphorus that is coming into the lake from the NORTH.
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 605 Officer
    kbkeys wrote: »
    I found that vid pretty confusing at best.

    The video is a "Big Bite" and requires allot of chewing.
    I see criticisms of the video, where there is a very narrow, specific focus on one element.
    I view it as a water quality issue which is very complicated.
    If there was a simple fix, it would have happened.
    I'm happy the issue is being discussed, instead of the same old, same old.....
    The fish kills and algae blooms are causing greater scrutiny .

    All told, Florida has a very pressing water issue, both north and south.
    Renagade69 wrote: »
    Either you are mechanically inclined ore your not. The fact you had to ask told me that you can not do it. Its ok, not every one has this ability. Some people just have to pay.
  • JoeBCJoeBC Posts: 608 Officer
    Joe, you see, that right there is the problem. The very essence of the problem. You view it as an us versus them issue. Then the labels, like you have applied, begin to fly in an attempt some how to vilify CCA or others that do not hold your/CFCW/BS views of how to restore the Everglades.

    I agree with you, I think the video is creating an us vs. them by misquoting the amendment to discredit the efforts of those groups. Lots of people probably support both CCA and those organizations, and this video seems to be coming out and saying don't trust them, trust us.
  • Too many new organizations popping up. I'll stick with CCA and their history rather than jump on the Palm Beach Commissioner/wanna be's new organization.

    Its politics baby!
  • HeartNShoalHeartNShoal Posts: 937 Officer
    Why did no one acknowledge the sexiness of the Biologist?


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  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    So much misinformation in this video. JoeBC hit on one of the items - it's actually $200m MINIMUM/yr that is required to be spent on the Everglades. Gladesrunner, if CCA put out a list of candidates they support, it would read as a "who's who" of candidates who take large contributions from our biggest corporate polluters. Guys like Rubio, Scott, and Putnam for starters. If your biggest concern is red snapper limits and no-fishing zones, CCA are your guys. If you have concerns regarding water quality, look far elsewhere for support. And Adam, you know VERY well that a land purchase north of the lake would do nothing to send more water south into the Glades, or make little more than a tiny dent (15%) in the volume of the discharges east and west. Yet you continue to repeat it over and over. This stuff is so damaging.
  • DPreston wrote: »
    So much misinformation in this video. JoeBC hit on one of the items - it's actually $200m MINIMUM/yr that is required to be spent on the Everglades. Gladesrunner, if CCA put out a list of candidates they support, it would read as a "who's who" of candidates who take large contributions from our biggest corporate polluters. Guys like Rubio, Scott, and Putnam for starters. .

    A minimum of the lesser of 25 percent or $200 million 37 shall be appropriated annually for Everglades projects that 38 implement the Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan as set 39 forth in s. 373.470, including the Central Everglades Planning 40 Project subject to Congressional authorization; the Long-Term 41 Plan as defined in s. 373.4592(2); and the Northern Everglades 42 and Estuaries Protection Program as set forth in s. 373.4595. 43 From these funds, $32 million shall be distributed each fiscal 44 year through the 2023-2024 fiscal year to the South Florida 45 Water Management District for the Long-Term Plan as defined in 46 s. 373.4592(2).

    That minimum is also the maximum the legislature is required to budget. And that's what they did.

    That was the limitation on funding for the current CERP projects and CEPP planning. That's all the money there is. So Adam was correct.

    There is no money for land acquisition.

    What other misinformation was provided in the video?

    Can you point me to a list of candidates the CCA endorsed ? I am curious to see it since 501c3 corporations are prohibited from doing so.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Gary, you (and Adam) are conveniently only referring to the Legacy Florida portion of Amendment One money. Amendment One collects +/- $800m/yr and there is absolutely no limit on how much of the total amount can be spent on the Everglades. But I am pretty sure you know this. Our state legislature misappropriated (possibly illegally - there are lawsuits pending) the vast majority of Amendment One money the first two years it was collected by spending it on items that were supposed to be funded by the state's general fund. Rick Scott rolled out Legacy Florida this April in the middle of the algae blooms so he could claim that he was doing something - anything - to try to help with our water issues - which couldn't be further from the truth. He refused to even show his face in Martin County, even after being asked to come visit many, many times during the crisis.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/carl-hiaasen/article36702060.html

    Also, I don't believe I need to answer your question about CCA endorsements as I clearly stated "IF the CCA put out a list of candidates...".

    As far as other items in the video, how about Rufus's statement "unrelated to CERP, there is a plan to buy the land": storage south has ALWAYS been a part of CERP - it is a critical component. And the UF study clearly points out the need for additional southern storage. By the way, if you pause the video at 2:04 you can see EAA Reservoir #17 on the list (conveniently blurred out).

    Then, the statements that if the state exercised the US Sugar 2020 option, they would have to purchase the ENTIRE EAA??????? This is absolutely ridiculous. The EAA is +/-700,000 acres, and the amount estimated to be needed is less than 15% of that total. By the way, our state had the opportunity to buy 46,000 acres south of the lake at a fixed price of $7,500/acre last year, and our Gov. office controlled South FL Water Management District board decided to unilaterally decline that option. Not only that, but the option expired in October, and the SFLWMD declined it 5 MONTHS EARLY!!! Absolutely ridiculous. All this happening as we watch US Sugar contributions roll into Rick Scott's "Let's Get to Work" campaign in $100k increments.

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2016/06/us-sugar-tops-200k-in-donations-to-rick-scott-since-october.html

    We could debate this all day but the facts are staring us all in the face and we can either ignore them and let corporate polluters continue to pay our politicians and candidates to look out for their bottom line at the expense of what's left of our wild lands and waters, or we can stand up and say enough is enough. I personally choose the latter. CCA seems to have chosen the former. I have a had time coming to terms with that, but hopefully this fight can be won without their support. If you truly understand these issues, this video makes it crystal clear where they stand on our water issues - in bed with Tallahassee.
  • DPreston wrote: »
    Gary, you (and Adam) are conveniently only referring to the Legacy Florida portion of Amendment One money. Amendment One collects +/- $800m/yr and there is absolutely no limit on how much of the total amount can be spent on the Everglades. But I am pretty sure you know this. Our state legislature misappropriated (possibly illegally - there are lawsuits pending) the vast majority of Amendment One money the first two years it was collected by spending it on items that were supposed to be funded by the state's general fund. Rick Scott rolled out Legacy Florida this April in the middle of the algae blooms so he could claim that he was doing something - anything - to try to help with our water issues - which couldn't be further from the truth. He refused to even show his face in Martin County, even after being asked to come visit many, many times during the crisis. .

    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/carl-hiaasen/article36702060.html

    That's an opinion.

    There was no illegal activity. That would be misinformation. The state only allocated what it was required to.

    The money has to be allocated throughout the state. And its a big state. Frankly those in the norther part have their own water issues and they are just as concerned about theirs than we are with ours.
    Also, I don't believe I need to answer your question about CCA endorsements as I clearly stated "IF the CCA put out a list of candidates...".

    If you have no evidence of monetary support , then that would qualify as misinformation as well. As I said they are prohibited by the tax code for doing so.
    As far as other items in the video, how about Rufus's statement "unrelated to CERP, there is a plan to buy the land": storage south has ALWAYS been a part of CERP - it is a critical component. And the UF study clearly points out the need for additional southern storage. By the way, if you pause the video at 2:04 you can see EAA Reservoir #17 on the list (conveniently blurred out).

    That would also be misinformation. There is no additional storage involved in any of the 29 unfinished CERP projects. Also the UF study recommends only that it should be considered.
    Then, the statements that if the state exercised the US Sugar 2020 option, they would have to purchase the ENTIRE EAA??????? This is absolutely ridiculous. The EAA is +/-700,000 acres, and the amount estimated to be needed is less than 15% of that total. By the way, our state had the opportunity to buy 46,000 acres south of the lake at a fixed price of $7,500/acre last year, and our Gov. office controlled South FL Water Management District board decided to unilaterally decline that option. Not only that, but the option expired in October, and the SFLWMD declined it 5 MONTHS EARLY!!! Absolutely ridiculous. All this happening as we watch US Sugar contributions roll into Rick Scott's "Let's Get to Work" campaign in $100k increments. .

    I read the entire purchase and sales agreement, all 24 pages of terms and conditions and the appendices twice. It was onerous and favored the seller. It included rail and rolling stock, buildings and infrastructure in areas not contiguous to the wistful "flow way" at market value. Which were outside the purchase area and owned by another grower. It also had a 10 year lease back to use the land for agriculture and a reverter if it remained unimproved for storm water management.

    You seem to migrate your arguments away for the infrastructure fiscal irresponsibility itself, where Adam did not and substitute conjecture, corruption conspiracy and emotion in place of responsible science, economics , engineering and governance in its place.
    We could debate this all day but the facts are staring us all in the face ...

    Yes they are and you would be happier if you familiarized yourself with them. Adams video is a good place to start.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Gary, aside from being either misinformed or agenda driven, you clearly have your mind made up on this issue so I will refrain from further debate with you here. BTW isn't the job of a moderator typically to facilitate fair and productive discussion between a group's members? Just saying...
  • Big BoneBig Bone Posts: 65 Deckhand
    DPreston, looks like you have run into a wall.
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    It's ok, happens a lot around these issues. Like any other time there are substantial amounts of money and power at stake. Lots of agendas. Www.bullsugar.org/declaration is my best advice if you want to help. Without southern storage, CERP is pretty much a $15b+ boondoggle. Do the research - follow the money, listen to the top scientists, and draw your own conclusions.
  • DPreston wrote: »
    Gary, aside from being either misinformed or agenda driven, you clearly have your mind made up on this issue so I will refrain from further debate with you here. BTW isn't the job of a moderator typically to facilitate fair and productive discussion between a group's members? Just saying...

    I don't moderate this forum. And I am allowed a voice as you are.

    I know this stuff pretty well, having put the Everglades Consolidated Report on JEB's desk in 2000 which was peer reviewed by scientists and engineers from all over the planet.

    The only agenda I carry is one of facts and reason.

    Please do not spread rumors and conspiracy in the face of those things. The truth is far more interesting and fun.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Happy to discuss further in person or on a call any time Gary. Just as I was happy to discuss with Adam.
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 3,725 Captain
    It's worth noting this exchange for folks trying to figure out just how screwed up our Everglades situation is.... Every time there's an issue concerning the 'Glades you have at least six or more different parties involved - and at least one of them will go running to their lawyers if they don't like what is being proposed.... On many occasions the final result depends on a judge somewhere and the Park continues to suffer....

    I tell my anglers that the biggest change in the areas I fish is that the freshwater flow into the Park has diminished over the last 100 years - directly because of decisions made by government. The best figure I've heard is that the Park is getting maybe 10% of the freshwater that it was getting a hundred years ago (remember as well that the big flow should only come during the wet season - not when water managers have too much and just send it south...). That missing freshwater is why you won't find any oyster beds on the eastern half of the Park while the oyster beds in the Ten Thousand Islands (everything west of Lostman's River) are in fine shape... Wish it weren't so.
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    :hairraiser :hairraiser :hairraiser :hairraiser :hairraiser

    [video=youtube_share;NmS-9bQopM4]

    92c427b3fdd53389f928a8bde519984f.jpg
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    hmmm that guy looks familiar...thanks Rufus!!!!! :fishing
  • Pucker FactorPucker Factor Posts: 875 Officer
    Anyone takes a beating on social media like Rufus took from you all, I am not surprised.

    Go for it, buy the land, spend all the money, farming continues for another 17 years, discharges to the estuaries continue during peak flows, the Florida Bay continues to wither, nothing else gets done, but you all will have a bunch of land and guacamole in the estuaries.
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    Anyone takes a beating on social media like Rufus took from you all, I am not surprised.
    Wow. And yes. Tx Rufus.
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Adam, Rufus has always supported an EAA reservoir. But you already know that.
  • Pucker FactorPucker Factor Posts: 875 Officer
    DPreston wrote: »
    Adam, Rufus has always supported an EAA reservoir. But you already know that.

    I see this all too often, the over top tactics by the far left extreme to seek an end that is unrealistic. You will say what ever you want without ANY repercussions.

    Dave Preston Wrote:
    "Rufus Wakeman thanks again for hosting the Crystal Lucas event at the cottages. Its a beautiful spot - really a one-of-a-kind place. Breaks my heart to know that it will most likely be underwater in the next generation or two. But please keep voting (shoting) yourself in the foot and helping CCA because they truly care about fixing our water issues. When I met you at iCast you came across as a smart guy that was on the right side of the fence - someone who was going to be a huge help to our cause. So disappointing to see you in that video. You have lost all credibility with me. Sorry."

    What part of that is not considered an attack? The part where CCA truly cares about the water issue or that you have publically told rufus and all the band that he has lost all credibility with you? Just one of the many, many social media attacks that you and yours dole out.
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Adam, pretty sure Rufus is fully capable of defending himself, as I am also fairly certain that anyone that knows him would probably agree. As far as I know, we are good. As a matter of fact, I sent him the link to this thread several days ago in case he wanted to weigh in. Aside from you taking that screen shot without context - particularly, the comments that led up to that one - it's pretty disingenuous of you to be posting any part of a conversation you were not involved in from my private Facebook wall on a public forum. But I guess now that you are no longer a moderator, this type of behavior is fair game?

    By the way, your video still contains misinformation and the CCA is still in the wrong side of this issue. If the CCA decides to come around and sign the NowOrNeverglades declaration and support Negron's plan, they too would certainly be welcomed to the table, as Rufus was - by me and MANY others.
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    Ok so let's break this down.

    1. Rufus holds an Event for crystal Lucas, at his cottages,to support her run for office. Crystal Lucas is Probably one of the most vocal proponents of the southern floway and a huge supporter of bullsugar.
    2. Rufus is portrayed in a CCA video as now being apposed to the NowOrNeverglades declaration, which is pretty much about the southern flowway and how necessary it is to Everglades restoration and the elimination of the large harmful discharges to the east and west as well as rehydrating Florida's bay.
    3. Rufus now signs the NowOrNeverglades declaration, and creates a video stating the need for the southern floway and that we must push to get it started "NOW"

    Well, Rufus is either the biggest flip flopper in the world, or someone maybe exploited Rufus in one of the above mentioned videos.



    Let's ping Rufus so we can get the story right from the horses mouth. Shall we
    You know him pretty well Adam. Ask him to come to the thread.
    I know your friends on Facebook. And he was one of the stars of your video.
    ???
    Shouldn't be hard.
    Yeesh.
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    Jay Honan just let us know that the Martin County chapter of CCA Florida has disbanded out of frustration with CCA's refusal to back the #NowOrNeverglades declaration. Stopping discharges from destroying our fisheries is exactly the kind of issue that CCA built a legacy on. We should be on the same side here.




    https://www.facebook.com/bullsugar.org/posts/1847136032168554
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
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