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Partyboat ARS discards

I was out at site 12 today and a party boat was out there beating up on a spot. They caught a few small/mid size reds and threw them back overboard. I was southeast of them and had three floating half dead ARS float by me. I wanted to throw up seeing those fillets go to waste. Anybody been on a boat like that? Do they vent them or make any attempt to save them? You would think they'd have a seaqualizer or some tool to bring them back down. Its such a joke you can't keep them and have to just throw them back so they can die.

Replies

  • gatorhookgatorhook Posts: 657 Officer
    It's a byproduct of conservation at it's best. If you don't like it tell your politicians to do something about it. Bottom fishing mortality rates are high in deep water. Add in the shark factor and it all makes no sense venting them or not. I agree that meat is a sad waste. Sushi anyone?
  • farside88farside88 Posts: 495 Deckhand
    They unhook the fish as fast as they can then toss it overboard. Their job is to keep clients fishing.
  • SaltstrikerSaltstriker Posts: 88 Greenhorn
    gatorhook wrote: »
    It's a byproduct of conservation at it's best. If you don't like it tell your politicians to do something about it. Bottom fishing mortality rates are high in deep water. Add in the shark factor and it all makes no sense venting them or not. I agree that meat is a sad waste. Sushi anyone?

    I plan on doing some letter writing but I don't think anyone cares what I think. I'll find out I guess. I vented an ARS yesterday and he made it 30 feet down and was doing well then it started darting around like crazy then something really big ate it in one bite. Probably a shark.
  • SaltstrikerSaltstriker Posts: 88 Greenhorn
    farside88 wrote: »
    They unhook the fish as fast as they can then toss it overboard. Their job is to keep clients fishing.

    I understand the happy client part but they fish those spots all the time. Future clients will have more fish to catch if they take the time to sink them down. Most clients could appreciate that I would think.
  • AlRapAlRap Posts: 7 Greenhorn
    Yes, I've seen it many times. I've been on the Ocean Obsession a few times out of PC and we got into red snapper. Many were caught including some I would have considered trophy size. I'd say at least 1/2 were killed. Sometimes the deck hands don't properly vent them, and even when properly vented, some don't survive due to other kinds of shock or damage. It needs to be dealt with, but I'm not sure how. Now when I go on a party boat, which is seldom, I bring my own venting tool as I know how to do it properly!
  • Lobstercatcher229Lobstercatcher229 Posts: 4,845 Captain
    I think most on this forum would prefer maybe a one snapper limit per person to what we have now. Too bad all those snapper died. I suspect no matter what they did that a lot of snapper would die.
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,960 Captain
    It needs to be opened up. I've sent snapper down to be eaten by Cuda and sharks. It's stupid, if I kept it I would move on but I have to fish through the red snapper for fish I can keep

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  • guitarmanguitarman Posts: 270 Officer
    Where's good ole Bill Nelson in this fight?? The mates know what their doing but some float no matter what. God how long will this go on??
  • SaltstrikerSaltstriker Posts: 88 Greenhorn
    guitarman wrote: »
    Where's good ole Bill Nelson in this fight?? The mates know what their doing but some float no matter what. God how long will this go on??

    I know some will float no matter what you do. I was just curious if they do anything on those boats when releasing them.
  • Nb1Nb1 Posts: 21 Greenhorn
    They do what they can to vent them, a lot of times customers keep the fish hanging out of water while they wait for a deckhand to come help. But they bigger problem is these fish taking over the reefs and wrecks. You'll catch 5-10 red snapper for every one mangrove or trigger fish let's say. So if you're trying to get some meat you'll be throwing a lot back some days to do it. Partyboat just has more hooks in the water at once that's all. Open the season and less wasted fish will be seen
  • Day TripperDay Tripper Posts: 508 Officer
    guitarman wrote: »
    Where's good ole Bill Nelson in this fight?? The mates know what their doing but some float no matter what. God how long will this go on??

    Feds have set a 35 year target for the ARS will be back to acceptable numbers. :rolleyes
  • ncdeadncdead Posts: 545 Officer
    What the hell do you do? You don't want to to target them while trying to catch other fish but they bite, it happens. Then you have to throw them back knowing they are going to die. It's a waste of a resource because you can't control what bites your bait. No easy answers, ugly to see a nice fish die or be eaten after being released knowing that it could have fed several people.
  • hoejefhoejef Posts: 32 Deckhand
    ncdead wrote: »
    What the hell do you do? You don't want to to target them while trying to catch other fish but they bite, it happens. Then you have to throw them back knowing they are going to die. It's a waste of a resource because you can't control what bites your bait. No easy answers, ugly to see a nice fish die or be eaten after being released knowing that it could have fed several people.
    Was out yesterday and it seems the smaller fish are the ones with less chances of making it back to the deep, whereas the bigger ones when vented properly seemed to do fine. I had 3-4 floating all small that didn't make it in a matter of 2 drifts
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,960 Captain
    In my experience the big ones never make it down and the smaller ones take off like a race horse....seems it's a game of chance

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  • fish_stixfish_stix Posts: 1,382 Officer
    guitarman wrote: »
    Where's good ole Bill Nelson in this fight?? The mates know what their doing but some float no matter what. God how long will this go on??

    He's hiding behind Obamas skirt where he usually hides.
  • Paragon1Paragon1 Posts: 510 Officer
    Do the party boats out of canaveral use circle hooks now or are they exempt from that reg? I figure that'd help a little. The deckhands need to do better on educating customers about the Reds and to at least keep them in the water until the deckhands can get to them for a safe(ish) release.
  • gatorhookgatorhook Posts: 657 Officer
    Paragon1 wrote: »
    Do the party boats out of canaveral use circle hooks now or are they exempt from that reg? I figure that'd help a little. The deckhands need to do better on educating customers about the Reds and to at least keep them in the water until the deckhands can get to them for a safe(ish) release.

    Now that is funny! Party boat deckhands don't care about anything other than a great tip from the parties paying to fish. And a circle hook ain't gonna save them from decompression or sharks.
  • Paragon1Paragon1 Posts: 510 Officer
    gatorhook wrote: »
    Now that is funny! Party boat deckhands don't care about anything other than a great tip from the parties paying to fish. And a circle hook ain't gonna save them from decompression or sharks.

    Alright gator, it was a simple question pertaining to whether the party boats need to use that type of hook. Which is a yes or no question.
    Your redneck blowhard approach does nothing to address the problem at hand and steps to be taken to help remedy it. If the intent is to help preserve the species then why shouldn't the deckhands be required to inform the customers of the alleged "plight" of red snapper and how they can help?

    Doing this not only informs those on board of the issue before casting off, but also brings to the forefront the fact that this fishery is grossly mismanaged after the boat brings in and most likely kills 50+ by day's end.

    If charter vessels were required to log each snapper caught it could go so far as requesting STATE FUNDING to get more deckhands on board to help prevent dead loss (which when you read the 2014 report you'll see its grossly miscalculated).

    Your response is that of a victim, which to be honest when it comes to the current process we're all victims. But it does nothing to resolve the issue. The question we should be asking is what we can do as recreational fisherman to highlight how unstressed the red snapper fishery really is.
  • Paragon1Paragon1 Posts: 510 Officer
    gatorhook wrote: »
    Now that is funny! Party boat deckhands don't care about anything other than a great tip from the parties paying to fish. And a circle hook ain't gonna save them from decompression or sharks.

    Alright gator, it was a simple question pertaining to whether the party boats need to use that type of hook. Which is a yes or no question.
    Your redneck blowhard approach does nothing to address the problem at hand and steps to be taken to help remedy it. If the intent is to help preserve the species then why shouldn't the deckhands be required to inform the customers of the alleged "plight" of red snapper and how they can help? Doing this not only informs those on board of the issue before casting off, but also brings to the forefront the fact that this fishery is grossly mismanaged. If charter vessels were required to log each snapper caught it could go so far as requesting STATE FUNDING to get more deckhands on board to help prevent dead loss (which when you read the 2014 report you'll see its grossly miscalculated).

    Your response is that of a victim, which to be honest when it comes to the current process we all are. But it does nothing to resolve the issue. The question we should be asking is what we can do as recreational fisherman to highlight how unstressed the red snapper fishery really is.
  • gatorhookgatorhook Posts: 657 Officer
    Don't get your panties in a wad because I didn't answer your question. All anglers must use circle hooks when targeting reef bottom species. You need to think harder about your viewpoint. Did you examine these fish closely? Have you ever been on a party boat? These guys don't have time for the extra work. As long as the said undersized or illegal fish if off the boat they don't care. You are unrealistic, hooks aren't going to save them. Ever see a fish vented with a knife?
  • LivinTheDreamPCLivinTheDreamPC Posts: 223 Deckhand
    Paragon1 wrote: »
    Alright gator, it was a simple question pertaining to whether the party boats need to use that type of hook. Which is a yes or no question.
    Your redneck blowhard approach does nothing to address the problem at hand and steps to be taken to help remedy it. If the intent is to help preserve the species then why shouldn't the deckhands be required to inform the customers of the alleged "plight" of red snapper and how they can help?

    Doing this not only informs those on board of the issue before casting off, but also brings to the forefront the fact that this fishery is grossly mismanaged after the boat brings in and most likely kills 50+ by day's end.

    If charter vessels were required to log each snapper caught it could go so far as requesting STATE FUNDING to get more deckhands on board to help prevent dead loss (which when you read the 2014 report you'll see its grossly miscalculated).

    Your response is that of a victim, which to be honest when it comes to the current process we're all victims. But it does nothing to resolve the issue. The question we should be asking is what we can do as recreational fisherman to highlight how unstressed the red snapper fishery really is.

    I hear words like "get charter captains to ... take account of ... get deckhands to... get 'govt' funding ... " Isnt the government the reason we have this fraudulent snapper situation in the first place? Your suggestion is to ask the government (the ones responsible for the fraud) to help us take better care of a fish which doesnt need protecting in the first place?

    And as if charter guys dont have enough to think about? Like insurance? Captains license? Offshore permits? Saftey equipment? Gas / wages? etc. etc. Hey I gotta idea. Lets give the charter captains another job to do. Lets make them count red snapper? Really?

    Take a look at your stance before you call the guy a redneck. Your actually saying lets go to the guys that created a false problem and get funding from them to help the problem that they generated. Its kind of a reliance on government. Just food for thought. My $.02
  • Nb1Nb1 Posts: 21 Greenhorn
    I'm pretty sure the circle hook rule only applies from the 29 degree lat line and north. The ponce boats use circle Hooks the canaveral boats do not. The guys working the boats tell people to leave the fish in the water til they can help them out. But if you've ever looked around on a partyboat, the customers are usually the people holding the rods backwards trying to cast putting a hook in the center of a sardine wearing a Disneyland shirt and doesn't have a clue, and when they are 1 of the 15 people to bring up a small snapper all they want is a picture for Facebook and they hold that leader with the fish on it instead of waiting for help.
    Regardless of any of that when a boat catches 50 reds a day or more there will be floaters or swallowed hooks everytime. The problem is just about every piece of bottom these boats can fish is littered with reds. if less reds were caught less would float away
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,960 Captain
    If the state ever decides to give more money to a charter fishing operation to have more deckhand to help with red snapper.....we had better have a frigging civil war against our government. That has got to be the dumbest use of public funds I have heard yet. Putting extra mates on head boats is the least important issue in florida right now. Call him a redneck if you must, but it sounds like you're a face job fisherman without a whole lot of experience.

    When have you needed to have circle hooks for all reef fish?


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  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,770 Captain
    Reel Teal wrote: »

    When have you needed to have circle hooks for all reef fish?


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    In federal waters of the Atlantic.........for a while now............when is the last time you bothered to read up on the regs?:grin

    I wish they would make it mandatory to read all the regs and the latest changes before being issued any kind of a fishing license or renewal. At least then everybody would be aware of all the ridiculous regs that keep getting changed. Maybe then more people would take an interest in trying to force our elected officials to do something more about it than lip service in an election year. I think currently lots of people don't even realize how much has changed in the last decade.:shrug
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,960 Captain
    I just have never seen it in the regs I print out from the samfc website. I must be missing it somewhere

    Either way I don't fish for reef fish unless I'm in the keys anymore. Mostly cobia and trolling. Though on the wrecks we catch a lot of red snapper when fishing for cobia. We use J hooks for cobias mostly.

    By the way...making people read the regulations before the buying a license, is another regulation :) seems like we may need more of them to make sure we follow them.
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  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,770 Captain
    Yes unfortunately in this case, that is how our system works.......once a reg is passed (even a bad one), it never just goes away by itself..........it takes a new reg to cancel or replace it. So glad you see my point.:grin

    But don't worry.......they will never pass a law making you read what you are agreeing to abide by when you purchase a license to fish. It probably wouldn't help generate additional "revenue".:rotflmao
  • optimistic Angleroptimistic Angler Posts: 626 Officer
    But don't worry.......they will never pass a law making you read what you are agreeing to abide by when you purchase a license to fish. It probably wouldn't help generate additional "revenue".:rotflmao

    That's exactly what they make you do for Merritt Island refuge fishing permit
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,770 Captain
    That's exactly what they make you do for Merritt Island refuge fishing permit

    The refuge is regulated by U.S Fish & Wildlife Service which is under the U.S. Department of the Interior.

    The "recreational fishing" in the federal waters of the Atlantic is regulated by NMFS, which is under NOAA, which is under the "U.S. Dept. of Commerce".

    I wish they would take the "recreational fishing" and let the adjoining states control it or put it under the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,960 Captain
    The refuge makes you sign a brochure. You don't have to read it. Which comes back to bumpkins point in how I don't know all the regs and have a license. By buying a fishing license you are agreeing to follow the laws as well.

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