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Ciguatera

FS JeffFS Jeff Posts: 375 Moderator
Hey Guys ,

It's Jeff Weakley from FS Magazine. I'd like to talk to someone who's had ciguatera poisoning, and more specifically, someone treated with Mannitol, basically the only "cure", assuming given within the first day or so.

If you or someone you know has had this experience, please contact me at [email protected]; 772-219-7400 ext 116.

Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff Weakley

Replies

  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 5,844 Admiral
    FS Jeff wrote: »
    Hey Guys ,

    It's Jeff Weakley from FS Magazine. I'd like to talk to someone who's had ciguatera poisoning, and more specifically, someone treated with Mannitol, basically the only "cure", assuming given within the first day or so.

    If you or someone you know has had this experience, please contact me at [email protected]; 772-219-7400 ext 116.

    Thanks,
    Jeff

    Contacting someone I know who caught it 8 months ago. Do you have it or someone you know? What was the fish and location of catch?
  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 5,844 Admiral
    No luck with the Mannitol
  • dpdashdpdash Posts: 5,359 Admiral
    Please post link to article if you do one, never knew there was a "cure"
  • century7century7 Posts: 2,410 Captain
    dpdash wrote: »
    Please post link to article if you do one, never knew there was a "cure"


    i recall reading something where if it is given within the first few hours it might help with the poison.


    I just wish someone would invent a test kit that would detect Ciguatera. I know some are out there but they do not seem to be 100%
    It works 60% of the time all the time......
  • abacofeverabacofever Posts: 377 Officer
    University of Hawaii did the grunt work I believe....? Chunk of fish, etc about the size of a grain of rice. Drop in solution. Wait for color change. Heard about it. Have not seen it.
  • SlipkidSlipkid Posts: 241 Officer
    Mannitol huh? I'll have to look it up and talk to a pharmacist (Nobody get smart and try breaking into my boat - I'm not dumb enough to keep anything in there that could get you high; you might end up dead though. If you get seriously injured on the other side and I'm around I'd call me on the radio though, lol). Wouldn't hurt to carry some. I talked to someone who got poisoned at a restaurant in the islands and he said he was squirting out the bad end before getting back to the boat and he said the 24 hours it took to get a flight evacuation was the worst day in his life by far. I think I remember who it was; I'll try to find out and let him know you re looking for a contact Jeff. I'm assuming you are researching an article?

    I agree about needing a test kit though. I'd use it on each fish if I could.
    2003 Viking 45C
  • Permit RatPermit Rat Posts: 2,283 Captain
    I always thought Mannitol was a laxative, mostly given to babies. Am I wrong here? Have to confess, I didn't look it up.
    .......Rick
  • SlipkidSlipkid Posts: 241 Officer
    IV mannitol is used to induce urination.
    2003 Viking 45C
  • FS JeffFS Jeff Posts: 375 Moderator
    Rephrasing my original post... mannitol not "cure" but "treatment," and not self-administered or remotely useful for a first aid kit.
    Clinical/hospital IV use only. But DO ASK your healthcare treatment person to call FL Poison Information Center Miami if you get the hot/cold reversal and other symptoms after eating fish.

    I've dug up all kinds of interesting stuff about ciguatera... off to press soon for an upcoming print issue of FS.

    Had some great replies from folks out there. Thanks!
    Jeff Weakley
  • nuevowavonuevowavo Posts: 6,821 Admin
    My wife had a very mild case last year after eating grouper caught in the Dry Tortugas. Her stomach was upset a few hours after eating, then she got a tinging and numbing feeling on the roof of her mouth, lips and tongue. The stomach pain went away a day later, but the numbness and tingling feeling persisted for a number of weeks, but she never had the hot/cold reversal symptoms.

    A buddy of mine, on the other hand, had it much worse. He's created a website which has drawn stories from victims around the world:
    http://www.ciguateratoxin.com/
    Federales, bring my baby back to me!
  • abacofeverabacofever Posts: 377 Officer
    Much of the information from people claiming to have had it is nonsense. The first indication of nonsense is that "I was sick but got over it in day or two". Usually the first red flag. The second red flag comes from people that don't eat a lot of reef fish and claim they got it from a single meal. Third flag is claiming you got it from fish in an area where local people eat those same fish every day. 4th.. Unaware of any pelagic species ever being associated with it. Zero !
    When you do not understand something it is easy to grasp at anything !
    Facts: the toxin builds up in your soft tissues OVER TIME like Mercury poisoning. You carry it around for months or years. Every time you eat contaminated fish the toxic level increases. The more you eat or the frequency of eating fish increases the toxin in your tissues.
    Your body does not recognize the toxin at all. As you continue to eat contaminated fish it continues to build with no symptoms. When the level of toxin within those tissues finally reaches a trigger point based on YOUR metabolism. Your body reacts to it. You could literally be one meal away from fish poisoning for months and never know it.
    If you do not eat reef fish on a regular basis and have one hog fish and claim poisoning I am skeptical. The level of toxin in a single meal to cause that would be unprecedented ! If you Regularly eat reef fish then it is certainly possable you just had the one fish that pushed your toxin level over the thresh hold.
    If you are not hearing about locals avoiding reef fish then the chances of it being there are slim. when there is a wide spread event of fish poisoning the locals know about it. They eat 10x more than you.
    Open Ocean (Pelagic) species do not carry it. The Algae that causes ciguatera does not thrive in the open Ocean. It is a Reef dweller and is ingested by Reef Fish. I would concede that a Wahoo may be only one that might carry a very low level. The toxin builds the same in fish tissues as in Humans. Fish with higher metabolism ingest the toxin at a higher rate. The larger the reef fish the more time is has had to aquire more toxin in tissues. So... Large predatory or high metabolism Reef Fish have the best chance for increased toxin level...IF Ciguatera is present.
    Once your body revolts to the toxic level of tissue saturation of a poison that is not easily flushed out of your system. You do not just get over it in a few days. Most people that have full blown reactions take weeks of recovery and are then left with tissue saturated with toxins just waiting for that one meal to trigger another episode.
    Now having said all this. Could someone have a mild case of Ciguatera poisoning ? Sure. Everyones metabolism is a little different but the bulk of evidence says not really because if you had a 'mild case' that would mean your tissues are right on the edge of being full blown toxic. Your very next meal of even slightly contaminated fish would send you over the top and your body would go in a tail spin.
    If you are worried about in the Keys or Bahamas the stop catching reef fish and eating them. More for me !
  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 5,844 Admiral
    Won't go into specifics here but you can get it from a single meal. You do not have to have a build up in your system. Research it. Many cases reported where a whole group will get it from a single restaurant. Are you telling me every single person has the same amount of toxic build up are all eating at the same place
  • alacrityalacrity Posts: 2,666 Captain
    i dont know much about it, but i have read the case study of the guy who went to the gingerbreads and caught a nice sized king fish and took it to work and everyone ended up at jackson with ciguatera poisoning.


  • century7century7 Posts: 2,410 Captain
    2amigo wrote: »
    Won't go into specifics here but you can get it from a single meal. You do not have to have a build up in your system. Research it. Many cases reported where a whole group will get it from a single restaurant. Are you telling me every single person has the same amount of toxic build up are all eating at the same place
    I too have done some research and have read a few stories where a restaurant gets one bad fish and group will all get it at once.

    I recall another story where a family all got it from a hog fish said the symptoms kicked in within a few hours
    abacofever wrote: »
    Much of the information from people claiming to have had it is nonsense. The first indication of nonsense is that "I was sick but got over it in day or two". Usually the first red flag. The second red flag comes from people that don't eat a lot of reef fish and claim they got it from a single meal. Third flag is claiming you got it from fish in an area where local people eat those same fish every day. 4th.. Unaware of any pelagic species ever being associated with it. Zero !
    When you do not understand something it is easy to grasp at anything !
    Facts: the toxin builds up in your soft tissues OVER TIME like Mercury poisoning. You carry it around for months or years. Every time you eat contaminated fish the toxic level increases. The more you eat or the frequency of eating fish increases the toxin in your tissues.
    Your body does not recognize the toxin at all. As you continue to eat contaminated fish it continues to build with no symptoms. When the level of toxin within those tissues finally reaches a trigger point based on YOUR metabolism. Your body reacts to it. You could literally be one meal away from fish poisoning for months and never know it.
    If you do not eat reef fish on a regular basis and have one hog fish and claim poisoning I am skeptical. The level of toxin in a single meal to cause that would be unprecedented ! If you Regularly eat reef fish then it is certainly possable you just had the one fish that pushed your toxin level over the thresh hold.
    If you are not hearing about locals avoiding reef fish then the chances of it being there are slim. when there is a wide spread event of fish poisoning the locals know about it. They eat 10x more than you.
    Open Ocean (Pelagic) species do not carry it. The Algae that causes ciguatera does not thrive in the open Ocean. It is a Reef dweller and is ingested by Reef Fish. I would concede that a Wahoo may be only one that might carry a very low level. The toxin builds the same in fish tissues as in Humans. Fish with higher metabolism ingest the toxin at a higher rate. The larger the reef fish the more time is has had to aquire more toxin in tissues. So... Large predatory or high metabolism Reef Fish have the best chance for increased toxin level...IF Ciguatera is present.
    Once your body revolts to the toxic level of tissue saturation of a poison that is not easily flushed out of your system. You do not just get over it in a few days. Most people that have full blown reactions take weeks of recovery and are then left with tissue saturated with toxins just waiting for that one meal to trigger another episode.
    Now having said all this. Could someone have a mild case of Ciguatera poisoning ? Sure. Everyones metabolism is a little different but the bulk of evidence says not really because if you had a 'mild case' that would mean your tissues are right on the edge of being full blown toxic. Your very next meal of even slightly contaminated fish would send you over the top and your body would go in a tail spin.
    If you are worried about in the Keys or Bahamas the stop catching reef fish and eating them. More for me !


    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    It works 60% of the time all the time......
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