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BHO preparing for a gun control exec order for next week

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  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    Presidents are free to take action through executive authority, the other two branches of government are free to challenge that action if they see fit.

    It's the American way.
  • WaterEngineerWaterEngineer Posts: 24,415 AG
    Presidents are free to take action through executive authority, the other two branches of government are free to challenge that action if they see fit.

    It's the American way.

    Not really. There is this pesky document.........
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    Not really. There is this pesky document.........

    That's for Supreme Court to decide, and Congress to amend, should a President decide to act.

    That's the American way.
  • WaterEngineerWaterEngineer Posts: 24,415 AG
    That's for Supreme Court to decide, and Congress to amend, should a President decide to act.

    That's the American way.

    So I was right. Thank you.
  • guido4198guido4198 Posts: 2,247 Captain
    Not really. There is this pesky document.........

    And there's a tyrant in the White House who couldn't care less about any pesky documents.
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    cadman wrote: »
    You bought a stolen gun from a FFL dealer?

    How do you ensure you don't buy "suspect" guns any more. Do you call the cops and have them run the numbers of every weapon you buy?

    What state was this? How was a gun stuck between the seats and not get you charged for concealed weapon.

    this was south ga 40 years ago. I had a concealed weapons permit and still do. The gun wasn't concealed.

    I assume the gun shop took the gun in trade and didn't run the serial numbers. They apologized profusely and replaced the gun. There is no requirement for them to check guns that they purchase. Just like the paperwork we fill out when we purchase a gun goes nowhere but in the gun stores file cabinet. They are audited by ATF periodically. There is no huge database with all our gun purchases in it.

    I have often thought about going to the sheriff's department and running serial numbers but never done it. Now I buy new guns from reputable gun stores. They have the paperwork. That is what kept me out of trouble last time.
  • The MelManThe MelMan Posts: 4,038 Captain
    Halbraun wrote: »
    ................., but I also support anything that helps keep me and my family safer.
    r..

    Want to keep your family safe? Buy them a gun and train them how to use it. Any thing that gets in the way of you buying them a gun threatens your familie's safety. Gun laws are just incremental government attempts to subjugate the legitimate owners of the country, the citizens...........the career politicians are killing our liberty so we won't threaten them and their abuse of power which they hope leads to a lot of money and a short cut through their existence..................fools that they are. Don't give them anything...........
    2012-2013 FloridaSportsman BCS Bowl Poll Champion

    Northwest Nascar Champion 2012, 2017

    "2011-2012 BCS Bowl Poll Champion".
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,773 AG
    rickc wrote: »
    this was south ga 40 years ago. I had a concealed weapons permit and still do. The gun wasn't concealed.

    I assume the gun shop took the gun in trade and didn't run the serial numbers. They apologized profusely and replaced the gun. There is no requirement for them to check guns that they purchase. Just like the paperwork we fill out when we purchase a gun goes nowhere but in the gun stores file cabinet. They are audited by ATF periodically. There is no huge database with all our gun purchases in it.

    I have often thought about going to the sheriff's department and running serial numbers but never done it. Now I buy new guns from reputable gun stores. They have the paperwork. That is what kept me out of trouble last time.


    In the filing cabinet huh? Rick, it's , hum, never mind.
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    dave44 wrote: »
    In the filing cabinet huh? Rick, it's , hum, never mind.

    Sales Records: Licensed firearms dealers are required to maintain records of the acquisition and sale of firearms indefinitely.13 The dealer must record, “in bound form,” the purchase or other acquisition of a firearm not later than the close of the next business day following the purchase or acquisition.14 The dealer must similarly record the sale or other disposition of a firearm not later than seven days following the date of such transaction and retain Form 4473, the Firearms Transaction Record.15 When a firearms business is discontinued, these records are delivered to the successor or, if none exists, to the Attorney General.16

    A federally licensed firearms dealer must provide information from its records no later than 24 hours after receipt of a request by ATF for use in a criminal investigation.17 However, federal law explicitly prohibits federal law enforcement agencies from: (1) using dealers’ records of sales to establish a centralized system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions; or (2) requiring dealers’ records of sales to be recorded in, or transferred to a centralized facility.18 As a result, with very limited exceptions, records of firearm sales are not maintained at the federal level.19
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,773 AG
    rickc wrote: »
    Sales Records: Licensed firearms dealers are required to maintain records of the acquisition and sale of firearms indefinitely.13 The dealer must record, “in bound form,” the purchase or other acquisition of a firearm not later than the close of the next business day following the purchase or acquisition.14 The dealer must similarly record the sale or other disposition of a firearm not later than seven days following the date of such transaction and retain Form 4473, the Firearms Transaction Record.15 When a firearms business is discontinued, these records are delivered to the successor or, if none exists, to the Attorney General.16

    A federally licensed firearms dealer must provide information from its records no later than 24 hours after receipt of a request by ATF for use in a criminal investigation.17 However, federal law explicitly prohibits federal law enforcement agencies from: (1) using dealers’ records of sales to establish a centralized system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions; or (2) requiring dealers’ records of sales to be recorded in, or transferred to a centralized facility.18 As a result, with very limited exceptions, records of firearm sales are not maintained at the federal level.19

    My scorn should have been clearer, my apologies. Into the cabinet , never to be seen again. No requirement to do anything but hold the paperwork.

    And that is why they are able to figure out how many applications were filled out so quickly.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    dave44 wrote: »
    My scorn should have been clearer, my apologies. Into the cabinet , never to be seen again. No requirement to do anything but hold the paperwork.

    And that is why they are able to figure out how many applications were filled out so quickly.

    The fed tracks how many NICS background checks are done. Any person selling a weapon to a FFL will have to present I.D. and the FFL will run a NICS background check ran. The FFL will report the seller to the police as soon as he knew the weapon was stolen.

    That assumes Rick's story is real.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • nofishtodaynofishtoday Posts: 1,321 Officer
    Quote Originally Posted by rickc View Post
    I was stopped at a road check many years ago. My drivers license was expired. My stupidity. He made me go with him to the courthouse to post bond and get someone to come and get me since I could not legally drive. I had a ruger super Blackhawk in the truck stuck between the seats. He said we better take that with us and on the way in he called in the numbers and they came back stolen. Quite a shock to me because I had bought the gun at a gun shop. I sent my secretary by the gun shop to pick up a copy of the paperwork and pick me up. Since then I don't want any gun in my possession that might be suspect


    That is very illegal IMHO
    Considered CONCELED and not covered under CONCELED Weapon Permit
  • The MelManThe MelMan Posts: 4,038 Captain
    That is very illegal IMHO
    Considered CONCELED and not covered under CONCELED Weapon Permit

    What exactly is the big deal about this............really..............think about what you are complaining about ..............semantics.........if you can be arrested on semantics then the law is F***ed.
    2012-2013 FloridaSportsman BCS Bowl Poll Champion

    Northwest Nascar Champion 2012, 2017

    "2011-2012 BCS Bowl Poll Champion".
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    That is very illegal IMHO
    Considered CONCELED and not covered under CONCELED Weapon Permit


    things were a little less formal 40 years ago in rural Ga. I was driving a GMC Jimmy and that spot between the seat and console was perfect for that gun. As soon as I went by the gun shop and got the replacement it went right back in the same spot.

    Back then I don't think anyone was carrying for personal defense. That gun was for shooting snakes and blasting cans in the creek and whatever else came along.

    hell we had gun racks in our trucks with shotguns and rifles during hunting season in the school parking lot. Back then nobody gave it a second thought. Of course the only time we locked the doors at home were when we were leaving town.

    Gun laws are quite confusing. What is concealed? Do they want it in plain sight or hidden in the glove box? Loaded or Unloaded? and then every state has a different take on the same thing. Fact is I bet you could put a room full of cops together and they wouldn't agree either.

    I think if you have a weapons license you should be good to go.
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,773 AG
    Your right Rick 40 years ago things were very different, much less restrictions and we were pretty safe. Just don't confuse the decades with the reason you wouldn't buy at a gun show.
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    The way I read it is, he's making regular sellers of used guns, without an FFL, do background checks. I think his action doesn't apply to the guys walking around with a cardboard sign selling a single gun or the guy selling a pistol in the parking lot. Is this much to do about nothing? I don't see how this will be enforced. Is he going to have ATF agents at gun shows?
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    dave44 wrote: »
    Your right Rick 40 years ago things were very different, much less restrictions and we were pretty safe. Just don't confuse the decades with the reason you wouldn't buy at a gun show.

    dude I go to gun shows every chance I get. It is fun to walk around and see all the stuff. I buy lots of stuff I don't even need at gun shows. The guns I buy these days are not what they usually have at a gun show. I put most of mine together myself. Send actions off to bartlein or kraiger to rebarrel, buy stocks from McMillian or H-S precision or Shehane, pretty much jewell triggers. Or my ar's I build have a selection of match barrels and triggers and billet upper/lowers. I really haven't seen any guns at a gun show I would be interested in.

    When I buy a gun I keep my copy of the paperwork. I have a file box. Just in case I get in that same situation again. I believe if you had a bill of sale with the serial numbers and everyone's signatures that might keep you out of trouble. You just never know. Mine started from an expired drivers license at a road check. Then we didn't want to leave the gun in the truck on the side of the road.
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    cpr wrote: »
    The way I read it is, he's making regular sellers of used guns, without an FFL, do background checks. I think his action doesn't apply to the guys walking around with a cardboard sign selling a single gun or the guy selling a pistol in the parking lot. Is this much to do about nothing? I don't see how this will be enforced. Is he going to have ATF agents at gun shows?


    Is this much to do about nothing



    More BS background checks. Just more pain in the **** for the legal guys.

    Not a thing to keep nutcases from borrowing a relatives gun

    not a thing to keep the thugs from getting their hands on stolen weapons

    I doubt if very many criminals buy guns at a gun show. It probably would not be a very comfortable environment for them.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    My most valuable firearms are the ones the federal govt has no idea that I own and there is no paper trail leading them to me.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    fins4me wrote: »
    My most valuable firearms are the ones the federal govt has no idea that I own and there is no paper trail leading them to me.

    Well the way we deal with this issue sort of defines the two of us

    Obviously you feel the need to hide the fact that you own these guns from the government

    and I want to comply with all the BS regulations where I don't get crossed up with the government

    different means to the same objective. We all know government is the problem not our guns!
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    rickc wrote: »
    Well the way we deal with this issue sort of defines the two of us

    Obviously you feel the need to hide the fact that you own these guns from the government

    and I want to comply with all the BS regulations where I don't get crossed up with the government

    different means to the same objective. We all know government is the problem not our guns!

    it is even more simple than that. I do not trust the federal govt. in any form or fashion.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    fins4me wrote: »
    it is even more simple than that. I do not trust the federal govt. in any form or fashion.

    I certainly understand how you could feel that way.
  • Team SabatageTeam Sabatage USA, USA, USAPosts: 13,015 AG
    No one will ever be able to buy a gun again.:willynilly
    Strap me in, tie me down and roll me a bone, I'm getting on an airplane and I'm flying home...
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,773 AG
    No one will ever be able to buy a gun again.:willynilly

    A little bit over the top aren't you? We don't expect that till the 2nd erodes a little longer.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    cpr wrote: »
    The way I read it is, he's making regular sellers of used guns, without an FFL, do background checks. I think his action doesn't apply to the guys walking around with a cardboard sign selling a single gun or the guy selling a pistol in the parking lot. Is this much to do about nothing? I don't see how this will be enforced. Is he going to have ATF agents at gun shows?

    They could easily have ATF agents at gun show or contract with the states to have law enforcement officials at the events. But I read it differently. I think the requirement will be to get a license if you sell at gun shows or other venues, if you are selling multiple weapons.

    It would not be possible to make a casual seller do a NICS or every gun they sell. You would either have to open the database to anyone who logged in or require anyone selling a weapon sign up in advance.

    If congress decides to go to universal background check, they would have to require all gun sales go through an FFL. I do not think Obama can do that through executive order or he would try to. He can define what a gun dealer is under the law, since ATF does that already. Changing the definition within ATF at the President's order would be constitutional as long as it met some criteria as defined under the law already passed by congress. Buying and reselling under a certain time limit or selling more than a certain number of guns per year would easily win a court challenge.

    It is much to do about nothing. It fires up some individuals who see it as a step closer to taking their guns. But it really does nothing but make the gun control advocates happy. There might be a few more unlicensed gun dealer convicted with a rewrite of the definition.

    Still waiting on Water to tell me how it violates the constitution.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    cadman wrote: »
    It is much to do about nothing. It fires up some individuals who see it as a step closer to taking their guns. But it really does nothing but make the gun control advocates happy. There might be a few more unlicensed gun dealer convicted with a rewrite of the definition.


    So you've actually seen what the executive order is going to be? Please put up a link so the rest of us can read it.

    TYIA
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Because they have attitudes like this on the left side of the political spectrum we must not allow them one more inch if it can be prevented.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    fins4me wrote: »
    Because they have attitudes like this on the left side of the political spectrum we must not allow them one more inch if it can be prevented.

    I'm sure there a lots of families of teen aged victims that wish someone somewhere had said something so that the shooters could have been arrested BEFORE committing the crimes. Lucky for you you're not in that position.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    I'm sure there a lots of families of teen aged victims that wish someone somewhere had said something so that the shooters could have been arrested BEFORE committing the crimes. Lucky for you you're not in that position.

    Give it a rest.

    Most gun deaths are due to suicide,,,

    Take away the 4 worst hell holes of progressive entitlement cities out of the equation and gun violence in this nation becomes rare.

    If parents are stupid enough to blame the tool instead of the user then they also need to give it a rest.

    I am not willing to surrender my freedoms toward a response that will accomplish NOTHING so they can feel better and **** progressives can feel like they have accomplished something.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    here are some interesting statistics. I just don't see the big issue with gun deaths. They are sort of like terrorist attacks. The odds are pretty slim you will get caught up in one.

    http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-age-and-gender


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