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Where do you need more data?

mikenavmikenav Posts: 861 Officer
edited June 3 in Boating #1
I'm posting this here because it potentially affects everyone in the state, as opposed to just a small area. Where do your charts need more data? Are there places where your plotter shows one thing and something else is actually the case?

Let me know! I can't promise they will get fixed over night, but a list to work off of wouldn't be a bad thing to have. And it may be a simple fix i can guide you to correcting for yourself.

Just let me know some spots that need looking at and we'll go from there.

Thanks!


mike

Replies

  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,394 Officer
    Well here is a start:
    1 - The entire Everglades National Park area east and west coast.
    2 - Florida Bay and the Keys to start would be nice.
    Those areas are so outdated it's pathetic and unusable in most cases on satellite imagery & mapping along with sonar logs because it has changed so much since any updates to the chips have been made.
  • mikenavmikenav Posts: 861 Officer
    That's a BIG but good start. Just out of curiosity, what are you running your Navionics on? Plotter or phone? And give me an idea of just one area (out of all the ones you know about) that is "pathetic and unuseable". Serious question.

    Thanks for the reply. Hope to hear back.
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 955 Officer
    mikenav wrote: »
    That's a BIG but good start. Just out of curiosity, what are you running your Navionics on? Plotter or phone? And give me an idea of just one area (out of all the ones you know about) that is "pathetic and unuseable". Serious question.

    Thanks for the reply. Hope to hear back.

    This base was covered in a previous thread. I am really surprised you really want people here to weigh in on the shortcomings of the Navionics 906 chip in FL and especially the Keys. This was already done and nothing was improved although you thanked us for the "push" at that time. Ok we can do another short example again but only since you asked.

    This is just a quick example in a couple of areas of ENP where the respondent above was focused and wants more data. By comparison, the Navionics photos are very dated and offer incredibly poor resolution and therefore poor situational awareness to any user anywhere in the State when compared to what the images could be and what most of your customers think they should be. Some of the images for the same area shown below are missing on Navionics, they are Black and White, some look like paintings rather than pictures, and they all are nearly a decade old. All of 9 mile bank and some of the important surrounding area is missing on the 906p chip and the photos used for this entire area are mosaiked in an incredibly unprofessional manner. This unfortunately is the case for most of the State but but it is really bad in S. Florida. Compare the images below which are currently available on FMT (in a further improved version to what is posted below) to what Navionics provides and you can answer your own question as to what needs improvement. This is just some recent ENP imagery as a quick example. I can provide a replete comparison in every county of FL for any area you wish showing similar glaring differences in Raster if you like. I can also show you the glaring inaccuracies in the Navionics Vector of the actual markers for the entire State. Clear and recent imagery for ENP is very important to users particularly in light of the newly adopted boating and fishing rules in ENP. Navionics provides virtually no navigational markers at all which exist in ENP and thus trying to use it to actually run (unless you are a local expert) is a risk at best.

    Thus, the current 906 chip provides a general guide but has a long way to go to be the valuable navigational tool that it purports to be for Florida. It seems to me and others I have spoken with that Navionics has become mostly a dropbucket for user sonar uploads and that is pretty much the focus to provide that 3rd party data on mobile devices. But forget the raster which is a complicated and time consuming endeavor to fix. Why not just fix the markers for the State since they are focused on the Vector and the sonar and easy to fix? Instead of just importing the NOAA locations which for the most part are all incorrect, why not put the markers where they really are today? Yes it will take a lot of work but it can be done. As a mapping company, that would seem make great sense and should be a primary task and not accomplished by collecting it from the general public and hoping its correct. I find users have little confidence in what joe shmo said about the location of Marker 2 when they are running in poor conditions.

    enpCapture_zps39rnfg5i.jpg
    enpCapture2_zpsfmdcggsd.jpg
    enpCapture3_zpsdff9uysq.jpg
  • mikenavmikenav Posts: 861 Officer
    Thanks for the input Egrets Landing. What machine are you running your Navionics chip on? Or is it the phone app?
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 955 Officer
    mikenav wrote: »
    Thanks for the input Egrets Landing. What machine are you running your Navionics chip on? Or is it the phone app?


    If I run Navionics I run it on an HDS and also on a Simrad 12 but I rarely use it anymore as I have an inshore focus and the imagery and marker accuracy are very important to me. Thus, the 906 chip is now relegated on my rig exclusively to fishing along the reef lines in 30 to 100' where I like the sonar data and I'll run that along with Navico shaded relief Insight maps for the reefs and I use FMT to ID the artificial reefs since it clearly spells out exactly what and how much of it is down there on each one with a touch of the icon and is very accurate.

    As for running any map app on your cell phone to use while running around I really don't know how people do it unless they are sticking the phone down in a hatch somewhere or running in the night. I can barely see my Iphone in bright conditions no matter how bright the screen setting is. I hear people like it and use it running around but I have no idea how they can see the map during the day in an open rig. Maybe they all have shaded cuddy rigs or something. Trying to use it on a flats boat during the day while running seems like it would be impossible.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,394 Officer
    mikenav wrote: »
    That's a BIG but good start. Just out of curiosity, what are you running your Navionics on? Plotter or phone? And give me an idea of just one area (out of all the ones you know about) that is "pathetic and unuseable". Serious question.

    Thanks for the reply. Hope to hear back.

    Chokoloskee to start very simple. Then will go from there. As far as using the mobile app. I have it and is only used if my Lowrance Gen 2 12 touch fails. I have know idea how people can use it and see it on a phone or tablet is a open area with sun holding driving and looking at a small screen. It's not accurate enough for shallow navigational areas. By the time you see it your hi and dry.. Hope this helps!
  • mikenavmikenav Posts: 861 Officer
    Since the two of you have basically the exact same answer, I'll address them both here. First of all, I know my ipad is real dark when it is held vertically, but if I turn it sideways, it brightens right up and you can see everything, regardless of the sun. Does the iphone not do that? I also have an Android and have had NO problems with seeing charts, maps or anything else on the boat.

    As we have discussed extensively in other threads, the aerial photography is something that is out of my control. I have a Jeep and a boat, not a plane. When you have chips that cover the entire world, it's almost impossible to keep the aerials in every single region updated. I will still say they are some of the most updated aerials out there (worldwide) you can find. That said, I have voiced your concerns (and mine, to be honest) and have been told measures are in the works to address the Keys and ENP.

    This thread (besides being another opportunity for an FMT sales pitch) was intended for the VAST majority of Navionics users who don't use the aerial layovers. The people who use their plotters and apps for sonar charts, depths, etc. Those are the types of things I can and am more than willing to address.

    As for Chokoloskee, there are two parts to that answer. I would ask when the last time you updated your charts was because I was over there not long ago doing sonar scans and updating maps. Can I promise you the charts changed and the depths and sonar charts are more reliable. Yes. Can I promise you it's exactly where you want them updated? No. I don't know where you fish. Which brings me to the second point. You both have units with which you can do sonar scans and update the charts for the areas where you fish. As much as you seem to be out there, your charts should be some of the most updated in the world. I can easily show you how, if you need help making that happen.

    Thank you both, again, for the input.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,394 Officer
    mikenav wrote: »
    This thread (besides being another opportunity for an FMT sales pitch) was intended for the VAST majority of Navionics users who don't use the aerial layovers. The people who use their plotters and apps for sonar charts, depths, etc. Those are the types of things I can and am more than willing to address.

    As for Chokoloskee, there are two parts to that answer. I would ask when the last time you updated your charts was because I was over there not long ago doing sonar scans and updating maps. Can I promise you the charts changed and the depths and sonar charts are more reliable. Yes. Can I promise you it's exactly where you want them updated? No. I don't know where you fish. Which brings me to the second point. You both have units with which you can do sonar scans and update the charts for the areas where you fish. As much as you seem to be out there, your charts should be some of the most updated in the world. I can easily show you how, if you need help making that happen.

    Thank you both, again, for the input.

    Well since I'm a Navionics owner and have been sine 2005 and have bought a Platinum chip with in the last year and a half.
    I can say this is not a FMT promotion. My chip was updated about 6 months ago just before it ran out of free updates. I've never saw one overlay update to the area which is useful to me.

    I see with the sonar updates and updates on depths is the simplest and easier way out of this conversation for Navionics to make claims to having the most up to date information. But really have someone in there boat which you have no control of tides that day scanning and updating areas and then upload for the masses to rely on for navigation is not reliable but insane.
    I will say this your offshore sonar charts are good but anything else is a farce!

    Thanks
    Navionics Owner who spent there hard eared money on crap. Please issue me a refund if you want to make me happy. I have a superior product currently and will never look back!

    PS Please send this to upper management and see what they think about my reply.....
  • mikenavmikenav Posts: 861 Officer
    "I can say this is not a FMT promotion"
    Yet this is from earlier in the same thread: Compare the images below which are currently available on FMT (in a further improved version to what is posted below) to what Navionics provides and you can answer your own question as to what needs improvement.

    "I see with the sonar updates and updates on depths is the simplest and easier way out of this conversation for Navionics to make claims to having the most up to date information."
    Because that is what Navionics does. No simple way out.

    "But really have someone in there boat which you have no control of tides that day scanning and updating areas and then upload for the masses to rely on for navigation is not reliable but insane."
    I am sure you know this already but the sonar scans that are done are run through a formula that takes into account time of day, tides and about 100 other variables. You can't go out on a flood tide, scan a piece of land that is above water 360 days a year and have that show up on a chart as being 2-feet deep.


    I'd like to say I'd agree to disagree, but I don't really disagree. The aerial charts, though more up to date than most aerial charts you will find on the worldwide market, could be updated. Got it. Been reported to upper management. The same upper management that will see this post, so consider your concerns heard. Once again.

    Like I said before, the intent of this thread was to help other Navionics users with areas that they feel could use more sonar charts data. Hopefully we can get back to that.

    Thanks, again, for the input.
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 955 Officer
    mikenav wrote: »

    Like I said before, the intent of this thread was to help other Navionics users with areas that they feel could use more sonar charts data. Hopefully we can get back to that.

    Thanks, again, for the input.


    Your initial inquiry was not relegated to Sonar Data for Florida; you wanted to know where people wanted more "data" and if there are places where the plotter shows one thing and something else is actually there. That may not have been your intent but you received exactly what you asked for. I can appreciate the challenge of keeping your "data" updated but data are by definition not relegated only to a single vector item such as depth contours. If you just wanted to know where your customers want more "sonar data" that would have been the best opening question to pose and you could have avoided opening yourself up to getting inquiries for other types of data which comprise most of the total information on the FL chip. Otherwise, as you can see, what others consider "data" is correctly not congruent with your own definition.
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