Sebastion Inlet Silent Majority
Fishing has been good at SI lately as it almost always is this time of year. BUt good fishing also draws lots of people, which is fine, but not all of them good people, which is bad. My friend and I launched our kayaks early in the dark yesterday and paddled around the point to try our luck. As we rounded the point we saw three persons, headlights, baits buckets, staked rods. aerators, you name it on the point of the rocks clearly and entirely way beyond the fence and marker prohibiting entry. We had seen it before. But this time I called out and said, "Hey I don't know if you know it or not but you are not supposed to be there." I heard one of them call out in the dark "what? and I repeated just what I had said, nothing inflammatory or colorful, and went on my way. Turned out to be a mistake. Later in the morning I buried a small treble in my hand trying to gently release a trout so we came in. I needed urgent care. What did I find?? Two, not one of my tires totally flat with a knife slash in both sidewalls. The rest of the day was a bit of a challenge. THese guys intended to teach me a lesson. Keep your mouth shut. So now I know why no one out there ever says anything to people who haul up oversized snook at the north jetty using a pier net, flip them on the concrete and then heave them back almost contemptuously because they are too big. That is the fish's crime. Punishment?? possible death. That is the environment you get when no one enforces rules and everyone is afraid to speak up. One of the truly beautiful and productive areas in Florida becomes dark and even dangerous. I do not have the answer to this, but it is something we all need to think about and talk about. My fishing companion is a woman and is still very upset about this and all the other similar stuff that happens out there. THe bad guys want to take it from the rest of us and they could and do succeed. There is a lot of insecurity and even fear out there. Comments Please.
Replies
Simply my 2 cents here on yet I would NOT confront people to affect change. There are methods through the park and the Sebastian Inlet District Authority to bring fixable issues to their attention and propose a reasonable solution for discussion within their management bodies. For example the Inlet Authority has an elected Commission and meets once a month.
Again, my 2 cents, there are ALWAYS going to be bad apples - particularly folks who don't handle fish correctly (largely out of lack of knowledge IMO). Yes, there are some that do bad things out of disgust that they didn't get the fish they wanted (a keeper), yet trying to fix their wagon is....well, not likely to be the most productive use of your time to do what it sounds like you want - conserve breeder fish for a more productive fishery.
Again, so sorry to hear your troubles, particularly that you had a woman with you and the incident affected her feelings of safety at the inlet. There is a rogue element out there, in society in general, yet I have found the inlet a safe place to bring my wife and I hope your friend finds comfort in that; SI is a family friendly place IMO.
:fishing FISHON!!!!!!
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
I'm the same way Mark...I live in Sebastian...and don't go to the inlet. People abandon all ethics, courtesy, or humanity to get...a fish.
I caught 5 snook and 2 trout and never had a boat within a mile today.
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
I fish both and would say the percentage of "Boat trash" could be a bit higher. Plenty of discourtesy to go around.
My question is what was the concern of the OP that he felt he had to reprimand grown men who may have been committing an act equivalent to going 57 in a 55 zone? Not to excuse their actions but it doesn't quite sound like the "punishment fit the crime."
Glad to hear you reported the incident. Next commission meeting I'll ask if they have a camera on the back side near the boat ramp like they do at the jetty for us surfers. With the cars and trailers parked in that lot - the fee we pay - there should be a security camera to at least record each license plate coming in to that area. Sure would help when something goes wrong and we need to know who was there. Even a camera at the South entrance would help with that.
Unfortunately, times are fiscally lean and solutions need to be found that don't require more law enforcement. Sadly, FWC officers get paid jack***** and they lose them as fast as they train them. Some folks think cameras are big brother, well...its a public space that must be shared and if the only fiscally feasible solution is a camera...so be it.
Finally, so I've got the story straight when talking with Commissioners or SI District staff when you say ".. launched our kayaks early in the dark yesterday and paddled around the point to try our luck. As we rounded the point we saw three persons, headlights, baits buckets, staked rods. aerators, you name it on the point of the rocks clearly and entirely way beyond the fence and marker prohibiting entry" and "dragging a pile of crap over the rocks in a nesting area at 6:30 AM in the morning" are you talking about the South jetty out front or Coconut Point in the back? The latter is not a nesting area and the former really isn't either, it abuts the beach that is a nesting area but the lines cast from the rails of the south jetty would inhibit nesting as much as lines out from the rocks beyond the railing.
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
Afterwards, we fished the beach right next the north jetty... after being there an hour or so and releasing a few under slot reds, a group of 4 "gentlemen" showed up proceeded to glare at us as if we were fishing "their" spot. What did they do? Climbed out on the rocks/jetty footer, so that they were beneath others fishing from the rail. In the first 20 minutes they were there I saw 2 clearly under slot reds get shoved in a plastic supermarket bag.
I had to pack up and leave before the desire to confront them ruined an otherwise gorgeous day out there.
It's truly a shame and the reason I rarely go down there anymore - a truly unique and beautiful area infested by a small number of individuals that ruin the experience for everyone else.
As far as enforcement is concerned I think more resources must be expended. This is arguably the most successful park in the state. If there are not enough FWC personnel then Park rangers need to be empowered with the ability to issue written warnings and perhaps even citations. Make renewal of the park pass contingent on not having violations. Clearly post methods for handling fish such as "net up, net down" on the north jetty. FInd some ways to empower the mostly good sportsman who want to frequent the area and not be repulsed by all the bad behavior that goes on out there. And find ways to do it so that guys like me do not go back to see tires slashed or worse.
Yes, duckman, seems like Coconut Point but evad's post makes me think this may be south jetty and that this happened in the lot under the bridge near the south entrance.
Being on point and factual with folks that can do something about things like this is important. mmikita and evad, if you prefer, pm or email me your firsthand facts of what/where/when on the incident, would greatly appreciate. IF you have a police report#, officer, etc... that can get pulled as well.
IMO, nobody should be getting their tires slashed at the inlet; for any reason. That I would like to be addressed. I've seen the camera capture of license plates upon entry and exit of public spaces be a highly effective tool on keeping the rogue element in check - they begin to wonder where other cameras might be - gives the police the ability to narrow the field on who might be involved when incidents take place.
There are a lot of different things that go into what you're asking here. To be effective different routes must begin to be acted upon. For example, the area of Coconut Point is largely off limits because it's eroding so badly; their has been a tremendous loss of land their over the past couple years and any activity there is a concern to cause further erosion. This issue is squarely in the hands of the Sebastian Inlet District. I cannot say for sure without discussing with them, yet my first thought would be that the fence there is by their request.
SI District does not have law enforcement power they rely on the FWC for that. The park has stewardship responsibilities to the guests of the park, the facilities for the guests and to the taxpayers because parks are a common trust that the State has created and funded. It's essentially a three way partnership that makes the park work.
I cannot stress enough that IMO it is unrealistic to want more law enforcement, particularly wildlife enforcement. Wildlife officers are extremely underpaid and reality is that once they're trained and start, the next day they can get a job at U.S. Customs and double their salary - a person with a family and kids just can't look away on that. So, the officers at FWC who stay are often very committed people to wildlife enforcement with extremely large coverage area. Often, setting up sting operations on poachers is best use of their time and NOT sitting in a parking lot watching if folks are going over a rail. Yet, a report to check-in on a recurring problem to show that enforcement MIGHT catch you is a possible deterrent that could be tried for awhile. More importantly, IMO alternative solutions to these types of problems should be attempted.
As to not allowing a person in the park for a history. That is one that requires a little research. Not sure if the park has that authority and if they were granted it, does that put the non-law enforcement entry gate person in a potential confrontational position they're likely untrained to handle?
It's good to pose these questions when something unacceptable like this goes down and I for one will look into it through the management structures that exist in the three way partnership at the inlet. The next SI Commission mtg is Nov 11 (always the 2nd Wednesday of the month) and I happen to be heading to the next FWC Mtg (also in Nov - Panama City) and will seek who leads law enforcement in this region and attempt to plant seeds on some of the concerns you've raised.
Please get me the facts as you know them. Being factual and not overstating one's case is critical to the long term trust it takes to see things like this through.
Only FWC Law enforcement can do the things that are being asked for. The lack of enough FWC LEO is directly related to the poor pay structure as was mentioned...We as a people have decided that giving free phones and a credit card that can be used to purchase fast food is where we want our hard earned money going.... Till Americans ( Floridians) tell the Governor and the representatives that we no longer support the constant social welfare programs...and we DEMAND less of that and more needed services and improved infrastucture...we get what we deserve.
Those guys who slashed those tires...stopped at Burger King and used their EBT card to buy lunch....then called their buddies on their free phone to brag on what they did.
We empower them.
Rant over... :wink
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
I often fish the North Jetty and the group of regulars, myself included, always make sure to drop fish in head first with no "belly flop" at all and instruct others to do the same. When someone does it wrong you can count on someone telling them what they did, why it was wrong, and how to do it the right way. I almost always fish with heavy tackle to bring fish in quick which means no need for a revive on a fish that is still "green". Just drop the fish head first and it kicks away still strong.
With that said, I do agree with you that lowering the fish down would be the best way to release a fish, but there are just too many people and too much happening at once for that to be the usual. I've seen so many fish lost while waiting for a buddy to grab a drop net. Now imagine that Johnny just pulled up a big red in the net and as he's unhooking it Mark is just about ready to have his fish landed. I would rather see Johnny drop his fish in head first instead of waiting on Mark to land his fish then use the net to lower Johnny's back down. There's just no way that someone trying to release a fish is going to get priority over someone trying to land one. Again, not saying it's right, just the way I think it would be.
upload pics
High quality vinyl stickers representing your fishing lifestyle.
H2O Vinyl Designs
Check Out My Fishing/Diving Videos
Joey, Not that I agree or disagree...but as "food for thought"
Since the fish are generally over slot anyway.... what real difference does it make...If a fish is hoisted 15 feet in the air...as opposed to *if* it did escape while waiting on one *big breeder* fish to be gently released to produce more fish.
Does it need to hit the grating to be any more...or less of a catch? Is the photo that valuable? Did the fish not fight enough?
All questions we each as individual anglers must ask ourselves and weigh the personal decision we make and its future implications.
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
Good point. I'm definitely not going to care if I loose a fish while waiting for a net. As for other... who knows...
High quality vinyl stickers representing your fishing lifestyle.
H2O Vinyl Designs
Check Out My Fishing/Diving Videos
An aluminum slide with a hose running from the water to the top that is pumping a small stream of salt water down it just to insure a smooth slide down for the fish without messing up their slime. The slide could stop just above the normal high-tide line, then they hit the water head first every time and slower than they would if you just drop them straight in. Also no skill would be required to release a fish belly flop free.
Just an idea... I know it will never happen, but still an idea to toss out there. One at the tip, one at the middle, and one at the beginning.
I'm sure the Jew Fish would love to live under that slide.
High quality vinyl stickers representing your fishing lifestyle.
H2O Vinyl Designs
Check Out My Fishing/Diving Videos
Edgewater 220IS (Dan)
Mercury 250 Verado
Minn Kota I-pilot
2 Simrad NSS 9 evo 2
1 Simrad NSS 7 evo2
So with all of the tidal flow around that point, prohibiting fishermen from walking there is going to help. :cookoo
I'm a fairly law and order kinda guy but there's and old saying that you know a stupid law when good people don't obey it. These are obviously not good people we are talking about, but apparently there is no good reason to prevent people from fishing there, so this is the reason for which you take it upon yourself to chastise an adult(s) strangers?
There has to be a point where every little infraction committed by others is not challenged by strangers with no authority to do anything about it. And I'm still convinced, based upon the retribution doled out, that the initial exchange did not go down exactly as shared in the O P.
Well, it seems that mmikita was right on the nesting, I just inferred it to turtles and it turns out its a bird nesting site. So, yes, its important folks don't go trampling around there, particularly in the dark. As well, continued foot traffic in an erosion site is counter productive and should be avoided. Below is an image that gives an idea of how bad the erosion problem has been recently after decades of stabilization. While I don't take all this report says as fact, there is some good information in here on why that area is off-limits.
http://fsbpa.com/2013TechPresentations/Yarbrough.pdf
You shouldn't be so quick to get offended when a stranger on an open forum questions your version of events, especially given the unusual outcome. There's always two sides to every story. But that you come across more than a little pedantic reinforces in my mind that you probably were a little more mouthy with these guys than you *ahem* my have thought you were. And the "gently releasing the trout" bit doesn't help your case either.
As far as protecting that little point as a nesting area? For what? A Pacific Snail Darter? Something doesn't sound right there. That seems like fencing a 100' stretch of beach "to protect" the sea turtles.
"Strive for self-sacrificial levels of empathy and sympathy. We are only set free by becoming the scapegoat, or sin eater', rather than picking a target and 'throwing stones.'
Why you given mmikita so much grief?