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Everglades Management Plan is here.

Earlier this week ENP came out w/ their final management plan.
At least seven years in the making--countless meetings around the state and working groups.
It is quite voluminous and I have blown up the chart for the "Preferred Alternative" to start to become familiar with it...........Vol. I page 77.

Probably start with the summary and go from there.

Yes, boater safety course and annual boat decal to operate in the Park.
It'll take some $$$ to mark these pole/troll/idle zones as well as the seasonal rules.


http://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=374&projectID=11170&documentID=67837
Renagade69 wrote: »
Either you are mechanically inclined ore your not. The fact you had to ask told me that you can not do it. Its ok, not every one has this ability. Some people just have to pay.

Replies

  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,086 Officer
    Earlier this week ENP came out w/ their final management plan.
    At least seven years in the making--countless meetings around the state and working groups.
    It is quite voluminous and I have blown up the chart for the "Preferred Alternative" to start to become familiar with it...........Vol. I page 77.

    Probably start with the summary and go from there.

    Yes, boater safety course and annual boat decal to operate in the Park.
    It'll take some $$$ to mark these pole/troll/idle zones as well as the seasonal rules.


    http://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=374&projectID=11170&documentID=67837

    I think that I don't need to read 77 pages to find out I'm screwed.
  • MegalopsAtlanticusMegalopsAtlanticus Port of the Islands, FLPosts: 91 Greenhorn
    Anyone have any details regarding WHEN this new plan takes effect?

    As a former NPS employee at ENP, I am sort of dismayed by this. Especially for vacationers, etc who make up the lion's-share of park visitors. Logistically, this sort of seems like a nightmare. I understand the difficult mission of "protecting the resource unimpaired" but also being mandated to "provide for the enjoyment of the same". Boy, I hope these courses are online when it all cranks up.

    Living within a few miles of the park boundary, at least this should be a one-time-thing for me. But for someone visiting the park for one week in the wintertime (from far away) it seems really prohibitive if they just want to paddle around for awhile.
    "Once in awhile you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
  • blewitupsirblewitupsir Posts: 774 Officer
    I will be reading on the plan this week and see if I can get the fine details. I agree mega, the logistics are gonna be a PITA for folks visiting our area. I had suggested many times at the meetings about the need to work with other groups to get the word out on a permit being required. So far nothing. Stay tuned


    Fishing the Everglades hopefishing.com
    http://hopefishing.comFishing the Florida Everglades National Park with Hope Fishing Adventures.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 9,039 Admiral
    What's the Fine for no Special Sticker ?
    Are they gonna require the Everglades City Crab Fleet to get them ?
    If I'm making adelivery or bringing one back from the Bahamas and trasisitng the gulf just inside the Markers am I going to get Boarded by some NPS Rangers from Ohio on Seasonal TDY
    Can we just pay the Fine along with the Boat Ramp fee and just go fishing ?
    You know how many folks come from all over to fish ...I hate to call it ENP...The 10k is the correct name....just for a Family Week ..
    So much for the Last Frontier...:puke
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • snookaffinitysnookaffinity Naples, FLPosts: 1,229 Officer
    ?????
    "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain
  • blewitupsirblewitupsir Posts: 774 Officer
    Terror as I understand it thus far, a permit will be required for all boats entering ENP waters boundaries. Now as EC is the main channel for the commercial fleet, I do not see how it can enforced for traffic using the channel to and from the gulf to the hill. But that's a good question, and I will find out. As for the fine, I have no idea, but I would bet after a courtesy stop or 2, it will be more then the permit.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    http://hopefishing.comFishing the Florida Everglades National Park with Hope Fishing Adventures.
  • MegalopsAtlanticusMegalopsAtlanticus Port of the Islands, FLPosts: 91 Greenhorn
    I sat down (with a cold drink) and read the whole GMP last night. Quite a read.

    It is obvious that a great deal of time (7 years) and effort went into this plan. Ironically, the plan is intended to guide park decisions for the "next 20 to 30 years". Kind of nuts it took seven years to decide what to do within the next twenty, haha.

    The part that is a bit weird to me is how much of this plan is rooted in the designation and management of "Federal Wilderness". Federally designated Wilderness areas (within the agency often referred to as "Wilderness with a capital W") have been in existance since the Wilderness Act of 1964 and management of these areas is typically guided by the words "“an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.”

    In nearly ALL of the other Federal Wilderness Areas, 'mechanized travel' is prohibited. Meaning, access is allowed only on foot or on horseback. Everglades National Park is entirely different. I bet a lot of boaters have NO IDEA that they are running motorboats through the largest Federal wilderness in the East (entirely different than State wilderness areas). So how are we allowed to run powerboats in this Marjorie Stoneman Douglas Wilderness Area (encompassing 1.3 million acres, 84 percent of the park, excluding only areas with paved surfaces, permanent structures, and the like)?

    Well, that's where the smoke-and-mirrors comes into play, and the recent focus on seagrass bed damage/prop scars/etc. The water you are boating on is NOT part of the Wilderness, haha.

    When the Marjory Stoneman Douglass Wilderness was enacted and designated by Congress in 1978 (and added to in 1989) the waters within the park were EXCLUDED. So how does that happen? Well, Congress designated the SUBMERGED SUBSTRATE as Wilderness, not the water itself. Kind of funny, right? Entirely different than nearly every single other Federal Wilderness in the United States.

    Resource protection is paramount to all of us as anglers. As is reasonable access to enjoy the lands we own and pay for.

    But this weird designation of sumerged ground as Wilderness is sort of a reach in terms of what the Wilderness Act was trying to accomplish in 1964. Sort of seems like a farce in a lot of ways. Like, the mud below the water will remain "untrammeled" while the three or feet of water above it is not 'designated' and therefor can allow powerboats and still claim "Wilderness status".

    It's very weird. I think the big concern is a potential future exclusion of powerboats to better meet the Congressional criteria of what a "Wilderness" entails. I don't ever want to take on a Chicken Little "the sky is falling" outlook, but Everglades National Park is really walking a tightrope in terms of balancing "preservation and protection" while still allowing "access for the enjoyment of the same" as per the Organic Act of 1916, which established the National Park Service as we know it.

    I like paddling as much as the next guy. But I also like my skiff. A lot, haha.

    Time will tell if the seven years (and countless tax dollars) spent compiling this GMP will be worthwhile to park users and taxpayers in the long run.

    I think the real focus should be on restoring Flamingo's visitor services if they hope to increase park visitation and support. Far above trying to establish external 'visitor education and permitting'. Then again, the lack of people in Flamingo is kind of nice for us fishermen when compared to how busy it used to be in the late 90s and the decades prior. But still, I think American citizens deserve to have appropriate visitor services and infrastructure in place for the parks they support and fund on a daily basis.

    "Pay More and Recieve Less" rarely results in additional support, understanding, and appreciation of the resource in question.
    "Once in awhile you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 606 Officer
    I agree mega, the logistics are gonna be a PITA for folks visiting our area. I had suggested many times at the meetings about the need to work with other groups to get the word out on a permit being required. So far nothing. Stay tuned

    Fishing the Everglades hopefishing.com

    Agree w/ the PITA for the first time visitor.

    The increased revenue for entry into the Park and annual permits is to be used to hire 3 more law enforcement rangers.
    Thus more enforcement and fines.

    I don't think this fits anyone's vision of a park.
    You don't harass the visitors, to make revenue.

    I'm sure the regulars will put the time in to be in compliance and pay additional fees.

    The family visitors is what I'm afraid of.

    They need to take away w/ them positive, meaningful memories--not an altercation w/ a ranger.
    Renagade69 wrote: »
    Either you are mechanically inclined ore your not. The fact you had to ask told me that you can not do it. Its ok, not every one has this ability. Some people just have to pay.
  • BobberBobber Posts: 943 Officer
    Agree w/ the PITA for the first time visitor.

    The increased revenue for entry into the Park and annual permits is to be used to hire 3 more law enforcement rangers.
    Thus more enforcement and fines.

    I don't think this fits anyone's vision of a park.
    You don't harass the visitors, to make revenue.

    I'm sure the regulars will put the time in to be in compliance and pay additional fees.

    The family visitors is what I'm afraid of.

    They need to take away w/ them positive, meaningful memories--not an altercation w/ a ranger.

    Say whaaaa? I say make it a royal PIA for the uninitiated,your Marco deck boats and 12" Garmin screen Pathfinders. We will be there regardless of what they do to keep us out.
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,330 Captain
    .... over on the Flamingo side of things.... the Park can't even maintain the single set of markers going through the interior.

    Folks that know the area don't need the markers -everyone else really needs them. Whenever I've taken a bit of time to read through one set of "plans" or other for the Park I'm reminded that the actual implementation will likely be pretty much un-knowable until they actually do it. On one hand I appreciate that I'm left pretty much alone by the Park - on the other hand it seems that benign neglect is the order of the day. This is coming from a guy who can't even get someone at the Park's offices to return my phone calls when I have a license or permit question.... (that actually occurred twice this year, when I left messages requesting a specific individual return my call).
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • MegalopsAtlanticusMegalopsAtlanticus Port of the Islands, FLPosts: 91 Greenhorn
    Good points from everyone. It's nice to see no one is flipping out, but its also nice to realize that (so far) all of us "several times a week" park users are in agreement that ENP seems to have trouble managing the Park resources in its current format, so it is understandable to be skeptical that additional regulations will be managed any better than what we have now.

    I understand the difficulties of NPS management (spent nine years with the NPS everywhere between South Florida and Alaska under two very different presidental administrations) but it is truly inexcusable to expect more regulations, while providing so little to Everglades National Park visitors. ENP seems to be managed entirely different than our other National Parks.

    Such a sad, and sorry, state of affairs.

    The NPS education budget virtually vanished a decade ago, so now the lions share of park visitor education is performed by volunteers. Meanwhile, law enforcement continues to get new boats and will now have three (3) more LE's to help enforce these new regulations.

    For the record, it has been 'illegal' for one's lower unit or boat hull to contact the substrate in the Wilderness Areas for the past 40 years. And to my knowlege, it is pretty **** hard to enforce something you don't witness.

    I am ALL FOR additional park visitor education.... As with education and knowlege comes understanding.

    And with understanding comes appreciation for the resource in question.

    Writing tickets doesn't solve the issue, just adds anymosity. We ALL want to help protect the Park, that is obivous.

    Hell... We OWN the Park. It exists "For the benefit and ENJOYMENT of the People".

    It bothers me that park managers seem to overlook that aspect so often over in Homestead.

    I should add though, that I will happily take whatever course is required and pay whatever fee is required to go boating within the Park. It's not much different to me than paying for an annual boat launch pass from Collier County, etc. If it's the rule, I'll do it. I live here BECAUSE I want to boat and fish in Everglades National Park.
    "Once in awhile you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 9,039 Admiral
    lemaymiami wrote: »
    .... over on the Flamingo side of things.... the Park can't even maintain the single set of markers going through the interior.

    We don't need no stinkin Markers..:cool
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,330 Captain
    You're quite right -for those of us who run the area all the time.... Without markers the Park is going to be spending some time finding newbies. My concern, of course, is that if the Park can't manage to do the basics -what does that say about the new plan and how it will be used/implemented....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 9,039 Admiral
    You''l get more Tickets...and more Seasonal Rangers from Grand Canyon on TDY stopping you and looking at pictures of fish while they check your cooler for sizes and bag limits.
    Here's a Big Secret...The NPS just wants you to do the Boardwalk thing...not really get into the Bush and Consume the resources....
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • charlemagnecharlemagne Posts: 191 Officer
    You''l get more Tickets...and more Seasonal Rangers from Grand Canyon on TDY stopping you and looking at pictures of fish while they check your cooler for sizes and bag limits.
    Here's a Big Secret...The NPS just wants you to do the Boardwalk thing...not really get into the Bush and Consume the resources....


    No truer words have been spoken, I feel like they want to slowly strangle us off our rights to enjoy what is rightfully ours as citizens.. you really nailed it TRT!!!!

    Charles
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,330 Captain
    Of course while all of us are looking at the "plan" - Florida bay is dying with no action by the Park (or even any official notice that there's a problem...). Kind of tough to take. Here's the thread for anyone interested....http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?202889-Florida-Bay-Collapse
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • snookaffinitysnookaffinity Naples, FLPosts: 1,229 Officer
    My son was fishing along the beach out of Naples last week and thought there was an algae bloom there. We saw no reports of it.:shrug
    "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain
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