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Finally had to vent one yesterday.

I wish we could have an adult discussion about what I feel is an important subject for the future of our fishery. The other post went south bad..... let's keep this one clean and insult free or I'll just ask Dave to delete it.

So yesterday I took some friends for a couple hours between the storms. The fishing was a bit slow, and we only landed 5 in about two hours of fishing.

Before this trip, I was up to 25 successfully released fish using the traditional, hold the fish by the boat method. All times I was watching behind the boat and never saw any fish pop up. This last trip, I began using the torpedo method. First 4 fish were fine, but the 5th fish popped up next to the boat! The current was almost slack so my angler jumped in the water and retrieved it. After about 5 minutes next to the boat, this fish was not going down, and it wasn't showing signs of recovery, so I vented it. I pressed on the fish's belly to get all the air out, and the fish quickly recovered and kicked down vigorously.

It's worth noting that this was the largest fish of the day, and the angler fought it for several minutes. This again reinforces my findings, and the opinions of other captains like Don Dingman, that these fish RARELY need a vent. There were 30 fish caught before this one that didn't need one. And also, that heavy tackle and a quick fight shows better, quicker release times, again agreeing with the more knowledgeable captains.

I will continue to 100 fish. Soon I will post video of the whole thing, start to finish using both techniques, and will continue recording my findings.
Tony Eden-
Certified, licsensed and insured, Marine Electronics and rigging master, and "Dream boat" build winner with 20 years of professional experience.
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Replies

  • kajokajo Posts: 4,620 Moderator
    I said this to several people..this subject is like discussing religion..everyone thinks they are right and the other is wrong..and they have been fishing longer that the other

    More hate and murder comes from different opinions sadly..

    If we can simply discuss what and why works for you then maybe the guys that don't fish much or don't know how to vent gill learn SEVERAL methods..what's wrong with having several ways to release a fish healthy?

    So instead of all the this guy sucks and does this or your stupid and stab your fish lets actually try to have a old school informative thread that can become a sticky for future use and input

    Thanks
    Dave


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  • Sea SnakeSea Snake Posts: 5,527 Admiral
    Tony...ALL your fish died !!....:willynilly



    I keed, I keed ......:wink
  • knotenoughknotenough Posts: 936 Officer
    I will pose a question that I actually asked tony about at the tournament this past weekend.

    What is the bad about "venting" a fish? I think we all know how tough these fish already are. We see pieces of them missing from fights with other fish or whatever, but does the venting do something bad to the fish?

    I am asking this question for personal knowledge and yes folks, I can use google and all the other search tools, but personal experience to me is WAY better than reading a document of someone I do not know.
  • BoattronicsBoattronics Posts: 5,222 Admiral
    Most of the studies done show that venting fish actually lowered thier survival rates. With that being said, it makes no sense to me to vent a fish unless it is absolutely nessesary, in my opinion. So far, out of 30 releases, I've only had one fish that would not go down. All 30 fish were caught in 40' of water. The one that needed to be vented was the largest and also the longest fight of them all so far, which is important to note.
    Tony Eden-
    Certified, licsensed and insured, Marine Electronics and rigging master, and "Dream boat" build winner with 20 years of professional experience.
    Boattronics.net
    Over 80 seperate, recent reviews from captains on this forum-
    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?5295-Recent-Boattronics-reviews!
    Please call with any questions or a free estimate for the lowest price/best work available!
    904-545-1270
  • ThefourseasThefourseas Posts: 320 Deckhand
    :Horse:Horse:Horse
  • jimmy06jimmy06 Posts: 1,241 Officer
    Tony in your study's are you keeping track of time for catch and release of fish how strong current is and time out of water.
  • AnnaAnna Posts: 185 Deckhand
    Most of the studies done show that venting fish actually lowered thier survival rates.

    Tony, can you post the studies showing where venting lowers survival rates? I have looked and can't find anything.
    St. Johns Management Services | Property Management | Association Management | www.stjohnsmgt.com
  • jimmy06jimmy06 Posts: 1,241 Officer
    Anna wrote: »
    Tony, can you post the studies showing where venting lowers survival rates? I have looked and can't find anything.
    Anna I think someone posted it in the thread that got closed. I believe that study did a a survival rate on different fish from deep water. You would think the same would apply to red drum being they are being caught from deep water
  • BoattronicsBoattronics Posts: 5,222 Admiral
    jimmy06 wrote: »
    Tony in your study's are you keeping track of time for catch and release of fish how strong current is and time out of water.

    I havnt recorded time of day because I thought that was irrelevant. As for water speed, havnt figured out how to record that yet, without changing my transducer. Yes we will record fight and handling times.
    Anna wrote: »
    Tony, can you post the studies showing where venting lowers survival rates? I have looked and can't find anything.

    When I have more time later I will. In particular, there was one recent study that compiled 17 different studies on venting, where the biologist concluded that venting wasn't helping the fish in most cases. I will provide a link tonight, I actually have the study on pdf.

    I know you are going to support Steve, and that's great. And I think he is doing what he believes is right, by venting every single fish. But I think if you did a few searches you will quickly see this.....

    That almost every study or fish site like myfwc, etc, says that you shouldn't ever vent a fish unless it shows OBVIOUS SIGNS OF BAROTRAUMA. They all suggest that you should only vent when you have to.... as in when the fish will ONLY go down if vented.
    Tony Eden-
    Certified, licsensed and insured, Marine Electronics and rigging master, and "Dream boat" build winner with 20 years of professional experience.
    Boattronics.net
    Over 80 seperate, recent reviews from captains on this forum-
    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?5295-Recent-Boattronics-reviews!
    Please call with any questions or a free estimate for the lowest price/best work available!
    904-545-1270
  • Sea SnakeSea Snake Posts: 5,527 Admiral
    I think more importantly....you are opening the insides of a fish that normally is not open. And if EVERYONE was encouraged to VENT a redfish.....then most certainly half of the ones doing the venting would be doing it wrong and poking other organs, in an attempt to doing the right thing .....and subject that fish to infection and eventually it will die.

    That's basically it in a nutshell.

    Just think what happens if you skin up your knee on jagged oysters in the river....you can get some bacteria that can make life miserable for you.....same thing goes for fish.

    How many fish have you seen from the st johns that have lesions on them.....sure they are still alive....but from the industrial areas of the river.....chances are higher for something being there that could infect a "poked" fish.


    .......just sayin'..........
  • jimmy06jimmy06 Posts: 1,241 Officer
    I was refer to the time it takes from time of hook up to time of release
  • MenziesMenzies Posts: 19,289 AG
    Whew!

    I am real glad that this was about fish.

    I thought Tony was discussing his bowel movements.

    Though I guess that begs the question, then why did I click on it! :)
    Maybe if we tell people that the brain is an App, they will start using it.
  • AnnaAnna Posts: 185 Deckhand

    I know you are going to support Steve, and that's great.

    That's a bit of a presumption. But, we digress.

    Thanks Jimmy, I will check that thread.

    I have Googled it & I did not find any conclusive research. I'd appreciate the links you found in your research & I will check the other thread too.

    I ask because until just a couple of years ago it was an FWC requirement to have a venting tool aboard your vessel when fishing for Gulf reef fish. I understand they removed the requirement, not because venting was killing fish, but because there is more than one way to skin a cat. They wanted to give the angler the freedom to determine the method of revival.
    St. Johns Management Services | Property Management | Association Management | www.stjohnsmgt.com
  • AnnaAnna Posts: 185 Deckhand
    I did find the following from the FWC website interesting. The most interesting part of this little exert is the discussion of the odds of a grouper surviving the venting being possibly greater than that of a snapper simply because grouper are easier to vent.

    Venting distended gas bladders
    Release of sublegal-sized groupers and snappers is imperative because of increased minimum sizes and implementation of bag limits. When these fishes are hauled from depths greater than about 30 feet, their air bladders become distended and many times cause their stomachs to evert, or turn inside out, through their mouths. Research is inconclusive regarding the benefits of venting snappers. The uncertainty may be due to injury of internal organs resulting from improper insertion of the venting tool into these narrow-bodied fishes. In snappers, to avoid puncture of the heart, liver, intestine, or gonad, it is crucial to insert the needle or cannula just posterior to the tip of the pectoral fin. Groupers, being wider bodied, better survive deflation, and venting has been shown to positively increase their survival. The technique is the same for both kinds of fishes.

    **
    I believe without having an expert study on the survival rate of vented red drum specifically, it's difficult to assess if venting is harmful.

    That all being said, determining to when to vent is a difficult one at best for red drum. When we first started fishing for them we chased a lot of fish. We tried reviving boat side, the torpedo, all of that. Venting & swishing (that's what I call the good ol' boat side revival) seems to be the most successful. Was it all documented? No, we didn't need to document. I can remember a day of fishing where I have to lean over for the anchor ball 10 times vs a day I don't have to do it at all.
    St. Johns Management Services | Property Management | Association Management | www.stjohnsmgt.com
  • Valley patrollValley patroll Posts: 334 Officer
    I love when people who have fished for less than 5 years become experts at every aspect of it, because they read it on the interwebs. This message was directed at Tony and Anna so it was fair and balanced
  • AnnaAnna Posts: 185 Deckhand
    Thanks Jimmy - your comment was super helpful in Tony, new anglers, and myself learning more about the sustainability of the red fish population.
    St. Johns Management Services | Property Management | Association Management | www.stjohnsmgt.com
  • kajokajo Posts: 4,620 Moderator
    they are lending their experience and what they do..the more information and opinions there are the better we become as fishermen

    why not lend your advise or experience into the mix and make the thread better and more informative
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    www.jccarpetcare.com
  • Valley patrollValley patroll Posts: 334 Officer
    Not going to happen Dave. You know as well as I do why, but I'll leave it be. This used to be a glorious place filled with reports, jokes, and general banter about all kinds of stuff. Now it's one sided like we have said. Tony has done a good job sticking up for you but after the last release thread I see how you are. Was that public enough? Hurry along I think Anna and Steve have some chores for you
  • kajokajo Posts: 4,620 Moderator
    cool bye

    now lets keep a informative thread going
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  • Valley patrollValley patroll Posts: 334 Officer
  • MenziesMenzies Posts: 19,289 AG
    Valley Patroll, I may have the wrong kid here, but didn't you start off on here as a youngster trying to get a yard business going and received tons of support and business to get you started?
    Maybe if we tell people that the brain is an App, they will start using it.
  • Mark O.Mark O. Posts: 3,450 Captain
    I'm so glad I don't have to moderate this **** anymore. Kajo, sorry you got stuck with this ****. You are a better man than me.
  • Valley patrollValley patroll Posts: 334 Officer
    Menzies wrote: »
    Valley Patroll, I may have the wrong kid here, but didn't you start off on here as a youngster trying to get a yard business going and received tons of support and business to get you started?

    Definitely not me lol mexicans mow yards
  • kajokajo Posts: 4,620 Moderator
    you know first hand the unnecessary drama..i just cant figure out why they dont just hit the log off button and go away
    i love how im protecting someone when the only time anything is removed is when it derails a thread or personal attacks or trolling

    and when one person it targeted the thread gets reported by 20 people that are tired of the attacks and drama and another mod jumps in to deal with it yet im the one protecting lol

    they just dont seem to understand that there are like 50 plus mods on here..and that there are like thousands of people that read these threads that dont like the drama and they report threads...thats ok..im the bad guy

    im not touching this thread..i will let the members opinion decide..if they are not happy with me i will step down
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  • 4wheelers4wheelers Posts: 46 Deckhand
    You are doing a SUPER job.Keep up the good work!
  • Kapn SkinnyKapn Skinny Posts: 1,008 Officer
    Quote Originally Posted by Menzies View Post
    Valley Patroll, I may have the wrong kid here, but didn't you start off on here as a youngster trying to get a yard business going and received tons of support and business to get you started?
    Definitely not me lol mexicans mow yards

    Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?201449-Finally-had-to-vent-one-yesterday/page3#ixzz3kQYXu6y7
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fsu11fsu11 Posts: 2,106 Captain
    Jimmy i believe this was the article you were telling anna to look at http://www.biol.ttu.edu/faculty/gwil...heries2009.pdf

    Texas tech university did research proving that venting fish is more harmful than beneficial and even said that it is more harmful the deeper the fish were caught.

    Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?200908-The-great-release-debate-continues/page5#ixzz3kQYiBWSW
  • AnnaAnna Posts: 185 Deckhand
    Thanks for the link Jason. I am reading it now.

    Is this the only article? I understand the guy says he compiled 17 studies, but 17 studies from the same guy is equivalent to nearly the same study repeated 17 times (kind of like the red snapper "studies").

    Tony stated "Most of the studies done" and I am just not seeing those results in what I am reading. I would like to see what he's reading.
    St. Johns Management Services | Property Management | Association Management | www.stjohnsmgt.com
  • kajokajo Posts: 4,620 Moderator
    jason you have a lot of good stuff to offer this forum..i hope to see more of you as we cut some negativity around here
    thanks
    julington creek carpet care

    www.jccarpetcare.com
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