Sport fishermen win greater share of red snapper catch

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  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 10,756 AG
    ....."Roy Crabtree, regional administrator for the National Marine Fisheries Service, said management of red snapper has helped the stock recover and rebuild.

    For instance, red snapper had disappeared off the coast of Florida near St. Petersburg 15 years ago, he said. "They're back all the way down to the (Florida) Keys now," he added. "We've made huge progress."

    :huh
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    ....."Roy Crabtree, regional administrator for the National Marine Fisheries Service, said management of red snapper has helped the stock recover and rebuild.

    For instance, red snapper had disappeared off the coast of Florida near St. Petersburg 15 years ago, he said. "They're back all the way down to the (Florida) Keys now," he added. "We've made huge progress."

    :huh

    What he forgot to mention that Gulf recreational anglers were fishing 194 days/year with 4 snapper per person 15 years ago and this year we were "allowed" to fish 95% LESS fishing days and 50% LESS fish per day when we were "allowed" to fish.

    THAT'S huge progress? Not in any stretch of imagination (except in the mind of an enviro-leaning federal bureaucrat).
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,190 Admiral
    Roy makes Obama look like Einstein!
    23895.gif
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,292 Admiral
    Katrina did that Roy did nothing.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    What he forgot to mention that Gulf recreational anglers were fishing 194 days/year with 4 snapper per person 15 years ago and this year we were "allowed" to fish 95% LESS fishing days and 50% LESS fish per day when we were "allowed" to fish.

    THAT'S huge progress? Not in any stretch of imagination (except in the mind of an enviro-leaning federal bureaucrat).

    And all those years you fished 194 days with a 4 fish bag limit, you blew the rec quota big time. Judge said you can't do that anymore. What part of a federal judge intervening in the Council's ineptitude don't you get?
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Randy Pausina is quoted as saying, in an LDWF press release:

    “The benefits our private anglers enjoyed in 2015 did not extend to our entire recreational fishing industry because the charter sector was shut down before they could harvest their share of the total Gulf of Mexico recreational red snapper harvest,” said Randy Pausina, Assistant Secretary for Fisheries, LDWF. “Louisiana’s federally-permitted charter captains were allocated 338 thousand pounds and given a 45-day season. During that season they were only able to land 215 thousand pounds, leaving 123,000 pounds on the table.

    I didn't realize that Louisiana or any other state had specific private/for-hire quotas. That would only occur if the Council could ever agree on regional management, which they obviously can not. There is no allocation for "Louisiana's federally permitted charter captains".

    So, that says to me that LA is asking for a greater percentage of the quota than they normally land, if they couldn't catch it. Either that, or their for-hire fleet fishes for and sells trips targeting red drum, flounder, white trout, etc.;not red snapper.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    And all those years you fished 194 days with a 4 fish bag limit, you blew the rec quota big time. Judge said you can't do that anymore. What part of a federal judge intervening in the Council's ineptitude don't you get?

    What part of the ineptitude of the data over the last couple of decades (and especially since the hijack of 2006) do you not get?

    If you are pointing to these numbers as accurate and true, then what does that say about your aptitude?
  • bay20bay20 Posts: 1,490 Officer
    m9000 wrote: »
    That's a joke the only ones that made out were the charter boat capt's, but they will get screwed soon enough by them jerk offs at NOAA and the SAMFC just wait till they tally up the numbers and find out they overfished their quota, there will be some crying then.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    What part of the ineptitude of the data over the last couple of decades (and especially since the hijack of 2006) do you not get?

    If you are pointing to these numbers as accurate and true, then what does that say about your aptitude?

    I'm lost by your reply. The whole point of Amendment 28 was to correct the inaccuracy of the past...... a whole whopping 2.5 percent. Where is the 'inaccurate"? 2.5 percent error is 97.5% accurate. That is a very high statistical accuracy. Most statistics run on 5 or 10 percent errors.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    2.5% was one alternative.

    8.5% was another (42.5% comm/57.5% rec).
  • johnboy114johnboy114 Posts: 32 Greenhorn
    bubba is funny. he post up statistics that say "actual landings"... I got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale as well...
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,711 Admiral
    johnboy114 wrote: »
    bubba is funny. he post up statistics that say "actual landings"... I got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale as well...
    Yep, if they knew what you and your ilk smuggled in you'd be lucky to get a 2 hour season...
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Yep, if they knew what you and your ilk smuggled in you'd be lucky to get a 2 hour season...

    You got it backwards - if we had the season we should be getting (6 months), all of this finger pointing would be moot. This is no different than Prohibition, and we all know how well that worked.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    johnboy114 wrote: »
    bubba is funny. he post up statistics that say "actual landings"... I got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale as well...

    I don't think you can find anywhere in this thread I said "actual landings". I simply posted a table of what the landings are reported to be, and landings that are accepted by all the states and the feds as best landings data available. Those landings are what are driving regional management allocations among states. States all agree to those historical landings as a basis for their regional allocations.

    BTW, Tom, I've got it on good account that many private anglers make 2 trips per day during federal red snapper season, thus exceeding their daily possession limit. Or they catch and fillet. A bunch got busted the last two years for that, for both red snapper and triggers. I think that is what A#1 is referring to.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    I don't think you can find anywhere in this thread I said "actual landings". I simply posted a table of what the landings are reported to be, and landings that are accepted by all the states and the feds as best landings data available. Those landings are what are driving regional management allocations among states. States all agree to those historical landings as a basis for their regional allocations.

    BTW, Tom, I've got it on good account that many private anglers make 2 trips per day during federal red snapper season, thus exceeding their daily possession limit. Or they catch and fillet. A bunch got busted the last two years for that, for both red snapper and triggers. I think that is what A#1 is referring to.

    "On good account" means absolutely nothing - it's just feel-good propaganda. I know of not one single private rec that made 2 trips in ANY single day during federal red snapper season, and I know a LOT of private recs. Provide proof of your absurd claims, or simply admit you are making unfounded statements.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,292 Admiral
    If it was fair then commercial and recreational would both get an allocation that would allow them to take their share in the same amount of time. That would be fair. The error is significantly greater than that. More like 97.5% “Inaccurate”.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,711 Admiral
    surfman wrote: »
    If it was fair then commercial and recreational would both get an allocation that would allow them to take their share in the same amount of time. That would be fair. The error is significantly greater than that. More like 97.5% “Inaccurate”.
    Sounds good, let's extend that to spotted sea trout too!
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    "On good account" means absolutely nothing - it's just feel-good propaganda. I know of not one single private rec that made 2 trips in ANY single day during federal red snapper season, and I know a LOT of private recs. Provide proof of your absurd claims, or simply admit you are making unfounded statements.

    what part of a bunch got busted don't you get? I also know that some folks have asked their local enforcement to check the "private angling" reporting requirements. Yeah, they reported a trip; just no red snapper.

    Capt. Tom, you're in TX; trips take longer. Off MS/AL/FL you don't have to run so far to catch your red snapper (although I will admit, its getting harder and harder to find them close to shore). Run to the dock, dump them, go back out with your buddy and 6 kids on the boat and get a second helping.

    I'm not putting words in A#1's mouth, but I read his statement that way (plus the Publix bags with fillets in the bottom of the cooler).
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,292 Admiral
    Okay, and to keep it equally fair, all should get the same limits too, 5 or 4 fish only one over 20”. I’d support that.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,711 Admiral
    surfman wrote: »
    Okay, and to keep it equally fair, all should get the same limits too, 5 or 4 fish only one over 20”. I’d support that.
    as long as we get 50% with no closed months until our half is filled... which means y'all gonna get some closures on your side.
    Glad you see the light.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,292 Admiral
    Nah, a better use would be to close it to commercial take all together but, then again that would be a better use for a lot of the fish in the sea.


    I don’t want to continue this guy’s derail so I will just edit and add to the post I responded to earlier.

    Sometimes it is good to back up, I actually look forward to replies from A; he constantly reminds me that if we give these guys and INCH they WILL take a MILE!
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,711 Admiral
    Don't hurt yourself backing up.. lol
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    what part of a bunch got busted don't you get? I also know that some folks have asked their local enforcement to check the "private angling" reporting requirements. Yeah, they reported a trip; just no red snapper.

    Capt. Tom, you're in TX; trips take longer. Off MS/AL/FL you don't have to run so far to catch your red snapper (although I will admit, its getting harder and harder to find them close to shore). Run to the dock, dump them, go back out with your buddy and 6 kids on the boat and get a second helping.

    I'm not putting words in A#1's mouth, but I read his statement that way (plus the Publix bags with fillets in the bottom of the cooler).

    You claim that "many" private anglers make 2 trips/day, and cite a single bust as proof - cool beans - doesn't prove squat. Want me to cite multiple commercial red snapper boats that got busted breaking the law?

    What about the charter boats out of Alabama/FL panhandle routinely making multiple trips/day? Funny thing about Sector Separation, is that the AL/FL charter boats will get the same allocation as the Texas boys - doesn't make sense, as they will soon find out when it hits them in their pocketbooks.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    You claim that "many" private anglers make 2 trips/day, and cite a single bust as proof - cool beans - doesn't prove squat. Want me to cite multiple commercial red snapper boats that got busted breaking the law?

    What about the charter boats out of Alabama/FL panhandle routinely making multiple trips/day? Funny thing about Sector Separation, is that the AL/FL charter boats will get the same allocation as the Texas boys - doesn't make sense, as they will soon find out when it hits them in their pocketbooks.

    A 6 pack charter out of AL making two trips a day is giving 12 anglers the opportunity to get their two fish each. Not the same as one private angler making two trips a day, getting four fish. But that was obvious, wasn't it?
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    surfman wrote: »
    Okay, and to keep it equally fair, all should get the same limits too, 5 or 4 fish only one over 20”. I’d support that.

    I don't think thats a bad idea, except commercials tend to fish deeper so they have more discard mortality, plus that 13 inch fish they get fits on a plate that restaurants love to use to serve a whole fish, head on etc. But under the IFQ, the commercials would still get 4-5 fish daily (how you'd measure that, I don't know - 10 day trip, you have 40 to 50 fish?), and would still fish year round.

    Recs catch their quota in a couple of weeks with 2 fish...... how does 4-5 extend your season? Seems you didn't think that all the way thru..... or am I missing something?
  • Reef BanditReef Bandit Posts: 997 Officer
    And we in Key West get NOTHING because we're governed by the South Atlantic. We have more red snappers than we know what to do with and we have to just let them go, many times to drift down the current to a happy shark... We get penalized because they catch them up north around Jax and we get penalized because they catch them up in the Panhandle and the other Gulf states. I wish we could be judged on our own fish stocks but we all know that's not going to happen.

    I have nothing against the charter industry, nor do I have anything against the commercial industry but letting us catch 2 red snappers per person 9 days a year when they are more abundant than mutton snapper and we're allowed 10 per person year round on those just doesn't make any sense to me. How would the gulf fishermen like to only be able to catch grey snappers 9 days a year because us guys in the keys catch so many? BTW, in state waters, we're only allowed to catch 5 grey's.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    Makes sense Capt to manage fisheries based on what the ecosystem can sustain off of each area/state. It makes no sense whatsoever to manage what is happening in the Keys based on what's happening in the Atlantic off of Jacksonville, just as it makes no sense to manage what is happening off of Texas based on what is happening off of Alabama, and vice versa.

    It's time to start managing the fisheries based on the fish biomass and landings/effort off of each region instead of the Gulf as a whole - this includes recreational and commercial fisheries.
  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    See Last Line...
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Ya'll are the true rapists of the seas..

    Somebody forgot their Thorazine...
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    Reel stamas - no need for that kind of stuff here.
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