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Fishing Rights Alliance (FRA) requests removal of Fisheries Management Officials

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  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    Oh and how much access does any of us have this year on Triggerfish? That's right none! Why? Floridas year around trigger season last year on a fish that's in bad shape, don't test me on that been fishing for Triggers in the gulf 30 years, I know that they need help. They do this to an overfished species with a federal payback provision and you all tell me that the states know best how to manage a fishery? Thanks State of Florida, thank goodness they went complaint this year and shut the trigger season off so maybe we will have a season next year. Was it worth it?

    State compliance apparently doesn't mean much in terms of access. Don't have it in front of me but the briefing I read stated that state compliance would get recreational anglers around 10 more days of snapper fishing in federal waters in 2015. Sweet Jesus throw me in that briar patch on please for 10 more days in federal waters ...
  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    State water guys and you are going to get 70 days of access except for triggerfish where the state Mis-managed and left the season open too long costing everyone a triggerfish season this spring and fall. Last year you and the state guide boats had 52 days or red snapper and my customers over 250 charters worth got 9 days access. So sorry you feel kicked to the curb, I know the feeling.

    Come on now don't bullsheet a bullsheeter, state non compliance did not cause this fiasco. As I recall the shortened season due to federal mismanagement and the 20 percent buffer due to a cfa supported lawsuit are the primary factors that forced the state's hand.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Federal Mis-management correct. We have been in a need of a new fish management plan for ten years. The writing has been on the wall that we would get to this point of limited access for quiet sometime. No one listened until it was too late. We all are in need of a better more accountable system, over the past 7 years the CFH sector has created theirs. The recreational sector has not, instead they have spent all their money fighting us, LOL. No matter now we are well on our way to fixing the federal for hire access problems. The new FMP is absolutely awesome! No ownership in the resource, no one left out, no winners and losers, no leaseing, equal access for all federal permits. A three teir system for allocation that is variable from year to year depending on the users and TAC, that's given out by the NMFS. All of this with the ability of all year access. Oh and that %20 buffer, we will not have to have it and still stay under quota.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    I heard at the last council meeting that if all states were complaint with the federal season you guys would get 30 days this year.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    I heard at the last council meeting that if all states were complaint with the federal season you guys would get 30 days this year.

    That's not what Roy's projections show.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    Federal Mis-management correct. We have been in a need of a new fish management plan for ten years. The writing has been on the wall that we would get to this point of limited access for quiet sometime. No one listened until it was too late. We all are in need of a better more accountable system, over the past 7 years the CFH sector has created theirs. The recreational sector has not, instead they have spent all their money fighting us, LOL. No matter now we are well on our way to fixing the federal for hire access problems. The new FMP is absolutely awesome! No ownership in the resource, no one left out, no winners and losers, no leaseing, equal access for all federal permits. A three teir system for allocation that is variable from year to year depending on the users and TAC, that's given out by the NMFS. All of this with the ability of all year access. Oh and that %20 buffer, we will not have to have it and still stay under quota.

    Yes, we all understand how the game works. Create a crisis where none existed, then deliver a brilliant management plan to make things better and get back on track.

    Only problem is that enriches a few at the expense of the many.

    You can serve up this new FMP as if it were a a delicious looking, golden brown crusted chicken pot pie. But since they have filled it with chicken poop, nobody is going to swallow it once they get a good taste.:rotflmao
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Don't hate the player hate the game fellas. Night yall got to fish doubles tomorrow!
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    Oh and how much access does any of us have this year on Triggerfish? That's right none! Why? Floridas year around trigger season last year on a fish that's in bad shape, don't test me on that been fishing for Triggers in the gulf 30 years, I know that they need help. They do this to an overfished species with a federal payback provision and you all tell me that the states know best how to manage a fishery? Thanks State of Florida, thank goodness they went complaint this year and shut the trigger season off so maybe we will have a season next year. Was it worth it?

    Why don't you ask this guy about triggerfish conservation measures?

    You are on speaking terms with him aren't you?:grin

    Funny though he don't look like a Florida boy to me.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    markw4321 wrote: »
    Tom

    Florida has a lot of state permitted cfh that are providing access to the gulf fishery out to 9 miles for non boat owning u.s. citizens.
    only in the panhandle though, rest of the state is screwed.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Then I guess its your word against mine until the Council minutes are available in June to copy/paste direct statements made on the record.

    It's not my word - it's what a state rep on the Gulf Council told me. I think he would know and has no reason to lie about it.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    It's not my word - it's what a state rep on the Gulf Council told me. I think he would know and has no reason to lie about it.

    And when did this conversation happen? Because as I got it, from standing around and listening to folks talk, the "agreement" fell apart somewhere between Wed. night and Thur. morning of the Council meeting. 'Cause the FL rep came out directly and said no agreement was solid during Thur. Council meeting.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Why don't you ask this guy about triggerfish conservation measures?

    You are on speaking terms with him aren't you?:grin

    Funny though he don't look like a Florida boy to me.

    Thats an awesome old pic. Thats about 1988 I think, back in the day when you could clean fish on the way home, that day we caught 200 pounds of triggers and 3 red snapper and were proud to have them. Oh and yes I am a Florida Boy, Jay Florida to be exact and have my degree from FSU. GO NOLES!!
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    Oh and yes I am a Florida Boy, Jay Florida to be exact and have my degree from FSU. GO NOLES!!

    Well I bet Felcia Coleman is sure proud to see an ole FSU boy doing so well for himself, and exhibiting such good stewardship of the marine environment.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Well I bet Felcia Coleman is sure proud to see an ole FSU boy doing so well for himself, and exhibiting such good stewardship of the marine environment.

    yeah, well, back in the mid 80s, headboats let you fill tow sacks full of 6 inch red snapper too....... there was no size or bag limit. Used to bring home a ton of those.

    So what's your point? Regulations have gotten stiffer in 30 years since fishing pressure has increased?

    san jose, california, Tom. Get the idea?
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    yeah, well, back in the mid 80s, headboats let you fill tow sacks full of 6 inch red snapper too....... there was no size or bag limit. Used to bring home a ton of those.

    So what's your point? Regulations have gotten stiffer in 30 years since fishing pressure has increased?

    san jose, california, Tom. Get the idea?

    So the inference here is that there is more pressure now than in years past. Ok. According to the numbers, the charter boats today are landing just a fraction of what they used to catch. Right?

    Therefore these same for-hire boats today are supposedly being compensated for catching less fish today than they did according to "historical" landings and are therefore "entitled" to 42% of the rec landings according to Amendment 40 numbers, right(?) are today somehow providing "increased pressure" today?

    Can you explain that anomaly Bubba_II? Your diatribe doesn't quite make sense does it?

    Does anyone else see the absurdity of this?

    Of course I get the idea of your obsession to remain anonymous - I got it from the gitgo. A self-important anonymous "expert" obsessed with keeping his identity unknown with the stipulation that his contribution to the conversation be treated equally with those who actually put their name behind what they say. I get it.

    The better question would be - why the "need" for anonymity?

    In today's world of validation principles, peer-reviewed science, ground-truthing of data provided, I can see our point of the importance of concealing your identity to prove your points made. No, actually, that would be laughed at in true scientific circles.

    So, here we are - you making absurd claims behind an absurd alias.

    I get it.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    yeah, well, back in the mid 80s, headboats let you fill tow sacks full of 6 inch red snapper too....... there was no size or bag limit. Used to bring home a ton of those.

    So what's your point?

    I'm not the one making a point here.

    But it seems you two guys are doing a great job of explaining about all the "historical landings & accountability" that make you feel you are more "entitled" to a "share" of the resource than John Q. Public.

    By all means please continue on with your daily posts here, as you are doing a much better job of explaining what is really to be read between the lines here than I ever could.:wink
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Well I bet Felcia Coleman is sure proud to see an ole FSU boy doing so well for himself, and exhibiting such good stewardship of the marine environment.

    I dont understand? 200 pounds of fish too many fish on a full day trip? If you think it is you may need to come to Orange Beach, on your next fishing vacation, thats nothing. I do remember that we caught all of them off of old Car bodies that we deployed as reefs. I have been farming fish for quite sometime now. We build 10 to 20 a year, every year.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    So the inference here is that there is more pressure now than in years past. Ok. According to the numbers, the charter boats today are landing just a fraction of what they used to catch. Right?

    Therefore these same for-hire boats today are supposedly being compensated for catching less fish today than they did according to "historical" landings and are therefore "entitled" to 42% of the rec landings according to Amendment 40 numbers, right(?) are today somehow providing "increased pressure" today?

    Can you explain that anomaly Bubba_II? Your diatribe doesn't quite make sense does it?

    Does anyone else see the absurdity of this?

    Of course I get the idea of your obsession to remain anonymous

    I get it.

    Quite the contrary to your interpretation. The fishing pressure (harvest not effort (i.e. angler days)) back then was higher than today; there just weren't any fish to catch. A full day on a TX headboat would yield you about 20-30 fish that were pan-fry size or bigger. That is about the time the stock was at its lowest level, but there were few regulations to control harvest. Everyone fished just like Texas; no bag limit, 365 days open, etc.

    And I hate to belabor this, but since you have:

    I have no obsession to remain anonymous; however, on the other side of the internet, I've run a site and forum for many many years, and only a handful of people know who I am and where I'm located.

    Whether you think its lame, I believe keeping anonymity on the internet is not a bad thing; it keeps spammers, hacks, etc at bay. Who do you think views this board more than anyone...... spam bots. The board I run on the other side of the internet has tons of bots crawling the board every day. My board actually identifies who's been there and has a special listing for bots. Some days, bots outnumber visitors. Lets say you have a gmail account....... posting tom dot hilton at gmail dot com will get you a lot less unwanted emails than the other way of writing that email address.

    But you seem to have some obsession to expose me. You threatened to post my fake IP in a locked thread from a few months ago where senior admins admonished you for your actions, and now you post the "location" of that fake IP in this thread, questioning how I could be local to Biloxi but my IP is elsewhere. So, I turned random on. No member of any message board should be threatened by a moderator that they will expose the member's ID. That is a given trust, that you don't seem to understand. I hope your senior admins do explain it to you.

    You also seem to equate anonymity with false statements. Like I said, when the Council minutes are available, I'll come back to this then old thread and post the FL rep comment that no agreement has been reached.

    BTW........ My IP is now somewhere in Virginia. Can I just go back to the Tampa Bay area as my preferred fake IP? I chose it specifically because the Council office is there, NMFS is there, several NGOs are there, USF is there, etc. It was kind of a joke, but you seem fixated on this issue.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    I dont understand? 200 pounds of fish too many fish on a full day trip? If you think it is you may need to come to Orange Beach, on your next fishing vacation, thats nothing. I do remember that we caught all of them off of old Car bodies that we deployed as reefs. I have been farming fish for quite sometime now. We build 10 to 20 a year, every year.

    You surely don't understand if you think your dumping 20 old car bodies a year in the ocean is "fish farming" enough to be restitution to mother ocean for removing 200lbs each "full day trip".

    Is that your idea of "historic accountability"? :rolleyes
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    You surely don't understand if you think your dumping 20 old car bodies a year in the ocean is "fish farming" enough to be restitution to mother ocean for removing 200lbs each "full day trip".

    Is that your idea of "historic accountability"? :rolleyes
    Um, recreational anglers removed 200 lbs per trip.. You seem to forget that.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    I didn't forget anything.

    I certainly didn't forget that the man who was making the decisions on how many fish would be kept, was making money off the trip.

    I didn't forget that he came on here crying about triggerfish being mismanaged and overfished, and that it is somehow the fault of the Florida FFWCC, yet he is proud that he would catch and keep 200lbs a day when he could.

    And I will never forget he is just one more bad example of past pillaging, amongst this group of CFH and commercials who have decided to partner together and with EDF, PEW, etc. to convince the rest of us all that they have the new and great FMP's or catch shares or whatever they want to call it this week, that will solve all the fisheries management woes.

    I certainly don't like the way things have been managed over the last 10 years, but I'm still a long way off from being ready to give the inmates the keys to run the asylum!:grin
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    I didn't forget anything.

    I certainly didn't forget that the man who was making the decisions on how many fish would be kept, was making money off the trip.

    I didn't forget that he came on here crying about triggerfish being mismanaged and overfished, and that it is somehow the fault of the Florida FFWCC, yet he is proud that he would catch and keep 200lbs a day when he could.

    And I will never forget he is just one more bad example of past pillaging, amongst this group of CFH and commercials who have decided to partner together and with EDF, PEW, etc. to convince the rest of us all that they have the new and great FMP's or catch shares or whatever they want to call it this week, that will solve all the fisheries management woes.

    I certainly don't like the way things have been managed over the last 10 years, but I'm still a long way off from being ready to give the inmates the keys to run the asylum!:grin
    Rec anglers STILL removed those fish... Every day.
    Seven days per week.
    Every day.

    Your brothers in arms.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    I didn't forget anything.

    I certainly didn't forget that the man who was making the decisions on how many fish would be kept, was making money off the trip.

    I didn't forget that he came on here crying about triggerfish being mismanaged and overfished, and that it is somehow the fault of the Florida FFWCC, yet he is proud that he would catch and keep 200lbs a day when he could.

    And I will never forget he is just one more bad example of past pillaging, amongst this group of CFH and commercials who have decided to partner together and with EDF, PEW, etc. to convince the rest of us all that they have the new and great FMP's or catch shares or whatever they want to call it this week, that will solve all the fisheries management woes.

    I certainly don't like the way things have been managed over the last 10 years, but I'm still a long way off from being ready to give the inmates the keys to run the asylum!:grin

    And you got all this information off of a 25 year old pic of a Deckhand cleaning fish. Got ya! If that got ya fired up you should see all of the commercial trips Ive been on, oh but the rest of the American public doesn't matter right? I could really give a rats behind what people like you want, you probably hate baby puppys too.
  • Riptide31Riptide31 Posts: 478 Deckhand
    That 200 lbs is BS. I've never been on a boat that harvested 200 lb of fish in a day. ( Not even mahi on the atlantic side.) There maybe a few guys who can haul that much, and charter guys but most recs arent that adept at it. Who dreamed up those numbers? Let me guess...........some extrapolated data from NMFS
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    And you got all this information off of a 25 year old pic of a Deckhand cleaning fish. Got ya! If that got ya fired up you should see all of the commercial trips Ive been on...........

    No, try to keep up. The picture was posted as a question, then you supplied the answers.

    Lets try another question, How many people on this forum do you think you are really going to convert over to your way of thinking about how the allowable yearly catch harvest of fish should be distributed? You know with this being a Florida Sportsmans website?

    You do realize this isn't the National Fisherman's website or forum?:rotflmao
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