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Red Snapper allocation under Amendment 40 unfair to Private Anglers

snake 166snake 166 Posts: 101 Deckhand
Private anglers have reported (MRIP) a major increase in take for red snapper during the last 10 years or so. Several reasons for this including the explosion in red snapper population. The most significant impact has been the introduction of GPS and especially WASS navigation which has made it possible for even the most amateur fisherman to find reefs. This is a permanent change in the technology required to find and catch reef fish. So only the most recent years (excluding shutdowns in 2010 and 2014) should be used to develop the allocation between CFH, HB and Private recreational fisherman. The method used in Amendment 40 is unfair.

Replies

  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    snake 166 wrote: »
    Private anglers have reported (MRIP) a major increase in take for red snapper during the last 10 years or so. Several reasons for this including the explosion in red snapper population. The most significant impact has been the introduction of GPS and especially WASS navigation which has made it possible for even the most amateur fisherman to find reefs. This is a permanent change in the technology required to find and catch reef fish. So only the most recent years (excluding shutdowns in 2010 and 2014) should be used to develop the allocation between CFH, HB and Private recreational fisherman. The method used in Amendment 40 is unfair.


    Just a wee bit late to the game.
  • "Game", good word for this BS.
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    'Fixed' Game...
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • toomertoomer Posts: 347 Deckhand
    I read this Forum daily but post VERY rarely. It is populated by extremely well informed members (way more than me) who passionately defend their points of view. I learn a lot here but rarely have anything of value to add to the conversation.

    If you are posting as a newcomer to the site these guys will expect you to have done your homework and read the bulk of the previous postings that have gone on before. Otherwise they are apt to be a bit snappish in their responses. Don't take it personal. Read up and join the fray!
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    The Council picked years, not landings. The years they picked were intended to represent historical and recent contributions. The technologies have been around for years. Private anglers have benefited from improved technologies, whereas for-hire had their logged spots, but in the longrun, it was years, not catch.

    And this is from someone who knew how to dial in Loran A, use one of those etcha-sketch sonars. Technology has outstripped the ability of the resource. Best solution........ remove the technology....... you go back to long seasons.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Best solution........ remove the technology....... you go back to long seasons.

    You are 100% correct.

    Remove all the commercial fleets spotter aircraft, huge nets and trawls, 20 mile long-lines, factory fish processing vessels with flash freezers etc.

    Go back to a straight ice hold vessel with hook and line gear only with no more than 10 hooks per line.

    We could have long seasons for everybody (recs and commercial) on all species and employ a lot more fisherman while doing it.:grin

    But it is all about giving the most harvest privileges to the "few elite & connected commercial entities" and falsely giving the impression of shortages to keep the market prices sky high (for the privileged few) and starve out all the small "family" commercial fishing operations while they are at it.:nono
  • snake 166snake 166 Posts: 101 Deckhand
    The comment period for amendment 40 runs through 17 March. I posted this thread to get feedback on the wording and validity of the technology argument wrt to allocation between sectors. I think the evolution of the technology from land ranges to LORAN A-C and then GPS, DGPS and WAAS has had a major impact on the success rate of the newcomers to the fishery. This especially true for the postage stamp artificial reefs deployed by the thousands off the north gulf coast.

    I might not object to a non-transferable allocation to the CFH---they are really against the ropes. But it has to reflect the improved success rate of the private rec anglers. It has to be fair in the language of the MSA now and for future generations
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    "Technology has outstripped the ability of the resource."

    I want each and every offshore fisherman, the next time they go out fishing, to repeat this ludicrous phrase out loud. THAT should bring a ton of laughs.

    The tens of thousands of artificial reefs and oil platforms producing fish with nobody there to catch them (except commercial boys) are exploding with fish.
  • snake 166snake 166 Posts: 101 Deckhand
    Considering the ignorance of reef fish ecology and population dynamics, the most effective management strategy might be a crop rotation scheme where large areas are periodically and alternately closed for a few years and then opened year around.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    The answer is not denying access to anyone based on the bogus data they are using, and that includes AM 40 or any other plan that prescribes a "limited access" such as the plethora of LAPPS (Limited Access Privilege Plan) tat they keep pushing in lieu of fixing the data.

    The answer is to implement viable data collection programs for both assessing the fish populations as well as effort landings - THEN formulate the appropriate seasons/bag limits. Sector Separation is doing it backwards - "let's implement a whole new fisheries management plan NOW, and figure out the details LATER"!

    Irresponsible management at best - criminal negligence at worst.
  • SpineymanSpineyman Destin, FlPosts: 8,377 Admiral
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    The answer is not denying access to anyone based on the bogus data they are using, and that includes AM 40 or any other plan that prescribes a "limited access" such as the plethora of LAPPS (Limited Access Privilege Plan) tat they keep pushing in lieu of fixing the data.

    The answer is to implement viable data collection programs for both assessing the fish populations as well as effort landings.

    It has never been about actual data collection or numbers. It is an agenda plain and simple. Redistribution of a natural resource.
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!

    II Chronicles 7:14
    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    You are 100% correct.

    Remove all the commercial fleets spotter aircraft, huge nets and trawls, 20 mile long-lines, factory fish processing vessels with flash freezers etc.

    Go back to a straight ice hold vessel with hook and line gear only with no more than 10 hooks per line.

    We could have long seasons for everybody (recs and commercial) on all species and employ a lot more fisherman while doing it.:grin

    But it is all about giving the most harvest privileges to the "few elite & connected commercial entities" and falsely giving the impression of shortages to keep the market prices sky high (for the privileged few) and starve out all the small "family" commercial fishing operations while they are at it.:nono

    Where is this coming from re: red snapper? spotter aircraft are used in one small mackerel fishery in the keys. No one fishes for red snapper with huge nets and trawls or 20 mile longlines. And there are no fish processing vessels in the gulf.

    This statement fits right in with Tom Hilton's astroturf thread http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?183063-Fisheries-Hijack-via-Astroturfing&p=2300244&viewfull=1#post2300244
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Where is this coming from re: red snapper? spotter aircraft are used in one small mackerel fishery in the keys. No one fishes for red snapper with huge nets and trawls or 20 mile longlines. And there are no fish processing vessels in the gulf.

    This statement fits right in with Tom Hilton's astroturf thread http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?183063-Fisheries-Hijack-via-Astroturfing&p=2300244&viewfull=1#post2300244

    We could have long seasons for everybody (recs and commercial) on "ALL SPECIES" and employ a lot more fisherman while doing it.

    There are artificially induced Monopolies created with IFQ where in combination with the "Fleet reduction" as its designed to do, has created an ever escalating domestic seafood cost, AND, driven demand for cheap imports to record levels. Neither is good for "America as a whole" as we are being told the driving force behind fishery managers decision are supposed to be based on. Better for "All Americans" would be allowing more participants and greater competition to allow Domestic product to be more affordable to the masses and more Americans to be employed in the workforce. All of this is possible with Quota management.

    This applies to the burden created with the rules on the CFH sector and what AM40 with only exasperate is passed.

    By the Way......Do you honestly believe the NMFS data on effort and biomass on Gulf Stocks like, say, red Snapper, accurately reflects reality? Even Close?
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