raising the minimum wage will do nothing more than drag what's left of the middle class closer to poverty...
it simply closes the gap, thus shifting medium wages lower in real dollars....
in my field, surveying and engineering, the company principles make large chunks of cash...
they are not afraid of some one educated, and highly skilled, will leave becuase becuase none of the other business are hiring....
mostly, other businesses are down-sizing....
as you were.....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Real White Dog
if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
#12976, joined 8-17-2002
You're seeing the problem though... wages aren't actually 'connected' to anything.
They are connected to the skill set and the quantity needed compared to quantity available. Too many people of any skill set and the wage goes down. Too little and the wage goes up.
Yeah.. no connection to actual profitability of the skillets.
No there isn't usually. If the skill has enough value, it can be negotiated, but with the current employment picture, the power of labor is so diluted, it makes most negotiations favor management.
after katrina, and due to the dispora after the stom, any job form laborer, craftsmen, high tech, and educated professionals were in short supply....
the "recovery mode" we were in needed all of these people in the worst way to git'er done...
engineering and survey firms were hiring like crazy and paying wages way over the top of what had been "normal".....
wages in my field went up about 40% +/-.....
a lot of these new hires, some actually moving into the area because of the inflated wages, thought this wave would go on forever...
i'm certainly not an economist, but i had seen this happen before, albeit on a smaller scale from other hurricane recoveries....
after 6 years of major reconsttruction, the work started to slow down as projects were completed...
then reality hit....
the real economy dating back to the fallout from 2008 hit....
firms started downsizing, some actually, folded...
the "real" wages came back down to pre katrina levels....
and a s**t load of high tech and professionals were out of jobs....
some still are...
wages have been flat for the last 4 years, and in some cases decreased....
in the meantime, inflation (the real inflation) was going up at an incredible rate....
all that did was further reduce the spending power of everyone...
unemploment in this area is 7%+...
this is just a "macro snapshot" of how our economy works...
that is all...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Real White Dog
if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
#12976, joined 8-17-2002
This 'untethering' began in the 70s.
I'll ask you then...
Do we have a tech labor shortage.. or not?
Can you provide evidence of that. Demonstrate where labor was paid as a percent of profit rather than skill versus availability. The events in the 70s was manufacturing leaving, when destroyed a lot of trade skilled jobs. the 70s was also the first time since the great Depression that unemployment rates exceeded 7% and also the first time they exceed 5.5% for more than a year. There was fifteen years that unemployment exceeded 5.5%, from 1872 to 1987.
It doesn't indicate anything other than what I have said before about too much labor and not enough jobs. Unions lost the power to strike when workers knew there was plenty of cheap labor available to replace them.
It doesn't indicate anything other than what I have said before about too much labor and not enough jobs. Unions lost the power to strike when workers knew there was plenty of cheap labor available to replace them.
yes indeed...
my prior post demonstrates that easily....
carry on....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Real White Dog
if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
#12976, joined 8-17-2002
I found one, He's working the tool isle at the local home depot.
Good news for cadman, I hear his median income is up..... now he found a job....
The Kodak worker suffers from the same consequences of the industry he married his talent to. Those businesses making film are making less money too. It is the cycle of life. I know so many in my industry that refuse to grow with technology and when they get laid off they are usually looking at a downward income level. This is nothing new today. It has been going on since people employed other people.... ask the guys that Gutenberg put out of work.
More photos and moving images are taken now that at Kodak's height. I work with many people who worked within the company to bring it into the digital age. They were out competed as they were unwilling to risk cannibalizing their existing markets as the new markets emerged.
I know we need to figure out a way to create more jobs. My radical idea was to redefine the work week to 4 days and 32 hours as a full time work week and O.T. required above it. Another solution would be to redefine exempt employees and raise the bar to qualify as exempt. these two items would have employers hiring more workers to avoid the O.T. pay. But it would initially reduce worker take home pay until wages increased due to fewer workers. But it won't ever happen.
Good. Tackling wage theft and misclassification helps.
dropping 'full time' to 32 and redefning what full time employment entails is a big renegotiation of the social contract. It sure would be a hard sell, as you say.
Replies
You should not talk that way about Chubs.
Mini Mart Magnate
I am just here for my amusement.
I know a ton of ex-Kodak people as well. Im in movies you idiots
it simply closes the gap, thus shifting medium wages lower in real dollars....
in my field, surveying and engineering, the company principles make large chunks of cash...
they are not afraid of some one educated, and highly skilled, will leave becuase becuase none of the other business are hiring....
mostly, other businesses are down-sizing....
as you were.....
The Real White Dog
if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
#12976, joined 8-17-2002
They are connected to the skill set and the quantity needed compared to quantity available. Too many people of any skill set and the wage goes down. Too little and the wage goes up.
Mini Mart Magnate
I am just here for my amusement.
No there isn't usually. If the skill has enough value, it can be negotiated, but with the current employment picture, the power of labor is so diluted, it makes most negotiations favor management.
Mini Mart Magnate
I am just here for my amusement.
It starts when the labor market is over saturated with available talent.
Mini Mart Magnate
I am just here for my amusement.
the "recovery mode" we were in needed all of these people in the worst way to git'er done...
engineering and survey firms were hiring like crazy and paying wages way over the top of what had been "normal".....
wages in my field went up about 40% +/-.....
a lot of these new hires, some actually moving into the area because of the inflated wages, thought this wave would go on forever...
i'm certainly not an economist, but i had seen this happen before, albeit on a smaller scale from other hurricane recoveries....
after 6 years of major reconsttruction, the work started to slow down as projects were completed...
then reality hit....
the real economy dating back to the fallout from 2008 hit....
firms started downsizing, some actually, folded...
the "real" wages came back down to pre katrina levels....
and a s**t load of high tech and professionals were out of jobs....
some still are...
wages have been flat for the last 4 years, and in some cases decreased....
in the meantime, inflation (the real inflation) was going up at an incredible rate....
all that did was further reduce the spending power of everyone...
unemploment in this area is 7%+...
this is just a "macro snapshot" of how our economy works...
that is all...
The Real White Dog
if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
#12976, joined 8-17-2002
This 'untethering' began in the 70s.
I'll ask you then...
Do we have a tech labor shortage.. or not?
Can you provide evidence of that. Demonstrate where labor was paid as a percent of profit rather than skill versus availability. The events in the 70s was manufacturing leaving, when destroyed a lot of trade skilled jobs. the 70s was also the first time since the great Depression that unemployment rates exceeded 7% and also the first time they exceed 5.5% for more than a year. There was fifteen years that unemployment exceeded 5.5%, from 1872 to 1987.
You don't understand the tethering.
Mini Mart Magnate
I am just here for my amusement.
In computing circles, this is part of the 'productivity paradox'.
http://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/cs181/projects/productivity-paradox/background.html
It doesn't indicate anything other than what I have said before about too much labor and not enough jobs. Unions lost the power to strike when workers knew there was plenty of cheap labor available to replace them.
Mini Mart Magnate
I am just here for my amusement.
yes indeed...
my prior post demonstrates that easily....
carry on....
The Real White Dog
if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
#12976, joined 8-17-2002
The Kodak worker suffers from the same consequences of the industry he married his talent to. Those businesses making film are making less money too. It is the cycle of life. I know so many in my industry that refuse to grow with technology and when they get laid off they are usually looking at a downward income level. This is nothing new today. It has been going on since people employed other people.... ask the guys that Gutenberg put out of work.
More photos and moving images are taken now that at Kodak's height. I work with many people who worked within the company to bring it into the digital age. They were out competed as they were unwilling to risk cannibalizing their existing markets as the new markets emerged.
I know we need to figure out a way to create more jobs. My radical idea was to redefine the work week to 4 days and 32 hours as a full time work week and O.T. required above it. Another solution would be to redefine exempt employees and raise the bar to qualify as exempt. these two items would have employers hiring more workers to avoid the O.T. pay. But it would initially reduce worker take home pay until wages increased due to fewer workers. But it won't ever happen.
Mini Mart Magnate
I am just here for my amusement.
dropping 'full time' to 32 and redefning what full time employment entails is a big renegotiation of the social contract. It sure would be a hard sell, as you say.