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No American who works full-time should live in poverty.

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  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Morons :)

    You should not talk that way about Chubs.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    I found one, He's working the tool isle at the local home depot.

    Good news for cadman, I hear his median income is up..... now he found a job....

    I know a ton of ex-Kodak people as well. Im in movies you idiots :)
  • mississippi macmississippi mac Posts: 4,222 Captain
    raising the minimum wage will do nothing more than drag what's left of the middle class closer to poverty...
    it simply closes the gap, thus shifting medium wages lower in real dollars....

    in my field, surveying and engineering, the company principles make large chunks of cash...
    they are not afraid of some one educated, and highly skilled, will leave becuase becuase none of the other business are hiring....
    mostly, other businesses are down-sizing....

    as you were.....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Real White Dog

    if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
    #12976, joined 8-17-2002
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    You're seeing the problem though... wages aren't actually 'connected' to anything.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    You're seeing the problem though... wages aren't actually 'connected' to anything.

    They are connected to the skill set and the quantity needed compared to quantity available. Too many people of any skill set and the wage goes down. Too little and the wage goes up.

    Mini Mart Magnate

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  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Yeah.. no connection to actual profitability of the skillets.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Yeah.. no connection to actual profitability of the skillets.

    No there isn't usually. If the skill has enough value, it can be negotiated, but with the current employment picture, the power of labor is so diluted, it makes most negotiations favor management.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Yep.. income inequality starts when labor carries business risk with no participation in reward.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Yep.. income inequality starts when labor carries business risk with no participation in reward.

    It starts when the labor market is over saturated with available talent.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • mississippi macmississippi mac Posts: 4,222 Captain
    after katrina, and due to the dispora after the stom, any job form laborer, craftsmen, high tech, and educated professionals were in short supply....

    the "recovery mode" we were in needed all of these people in the worst way to git'er done...

    engineering and survey firms were hiring like crazy and paying wages way over the top of what had been "normal".....
    wages in my field went up about 40% +/-.....
    a lot of these new hires, some actually moving into the area because of the inflated wages, thought this wave would go on forever...

    i'm certainly not an economist, but i had seen this happen before, albeit on a smaller scale from other hurricane recoveries....
    after 6 years of major reconsttruction, the work started to slow down as projects were completed...

    then reality hit....
    the real economy dating back to the fallout from 2008 hit....

    firms started downsizing, some actually, folded...
    the "real" wages came back down to pre katrina levels....
    and a s**t load of high tech and professionals were out of jobs....
    some still are...

    wages have been flat for the last 4 years, and in some cases decreased....
    in the meantime, inflation (the real inflation) was going up at an incredible rate....
    all that did was further reduce the spending power of everyone...
    unemploment in this area is 7%+...

    this is just a "macro snapshot" of how our economy works...

    that is all...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Real White Dog

    if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
    #12976, joined 8-17-2002
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    cadman wrote: »
    It starts when the labor market is over saturated with available talent.

    This 'untethering' began in the 70s.
    I'll ask you then...


    Do we have a tech labor shortage.. or not?
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    This 'untethering' began in the 70s.
    I'll ask you then...


    Do we have a tech labor shortage.. or not?

    Can you provide evidence of that. Demonstrate where labor was paid as a percent of profit rather than skill versus availability. The events in the 70s was manufacturing leaving, when destroyed a lot of trade skilled jobs. the 70s was also the first time since the great Depression that unemployment rates exceeded 7% and also the first time they exceed 5.5% for more than a year. There was fifteen years that unemployment exceeded 5.5%, from 1872 to 1987.

    You don't understand the tethering.

    Mini Mart Magnate

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  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    greggl wrote: »

    It doesn't indicate anything other than what I have said before about too much labor and not enough jobs. Unions lost the power to strike when workers knew there was plenty of cheap labor available to replace them.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    is your solution then, Ebola?
  • mississippi macmississippi mac Posts: 4,222 Captain
    cadman wrote: »
    It doesn't indicate anything other than what I have said before about too much labor and not enough jobs. Unions lost the power to strike when workers knew there was plenty of cheap labor available to replace them.

    yes indeed...
    my prior post demonstrates that easily....

    carry on....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Real White Dog

    if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
    #12976, joined 8-17-2002
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    I found one, He's working the tool isle at the local home depot.

    Good news for cadman, I hear his median income is up..... now he found a job....

    The Kodak worker suffers from the same consequences of the industry he married his talent to. Those businesses making film are making less money too. It is the cycle of life. I know so many in my industry that refuse to grow with technology and when they get laid off they are usually looking at a downward income level. This is nothing new today. It has been going on since people employed other people.... ask the guys that Gutenberg put out of work.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Innovators dilemma.

    More photos and moving images are taken now that at Kodak's height. I work with many people who worked within the company to bring it into the digital age. They were out competed as they were unwilling to risk cannibalizing their existing markets as the new markets emerged.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    is your solution then, Ebola?

    I know we need to figure out a way to create more jobs. My radical idea was to redefine the work week to 4 days and 32 hours as a full time work week and O.T. required above it. Another solution would be to redefine exempt employees and raise the bar to qualify as exempt. these two items would have employers hiring more workers to avoid the O.T. pay. But it would initially reduce worker take home pay until wages increased due to fewer workers. But it won't ever happen.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Good. Tackling wage theft and misclassification helps.

    dropping 'full time' to 32 and redefning what full time employment entails is a big renegotiation of the social contract. It sure would be a hard sell, as you say.
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