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Phase 4 redraws are up

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  • PalmettoKidPalmettoKid Posts: 847 Officer
    I miss First Come First Screwed.
    No Shortcuts. No Excuses. No Regrets.
    Bobjr86 wrote: »
    Ok so i hunted florida for my first time yesterday and have to say i was really disappointed.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    You guys are too funny. :rotflmao

    The same guys who were gobbling up all the permits are now getting nothing and the whining is starting. :cry

    And this I don't understand at all...
    Flredbones wrote: »
    Picked up a three lakes gen gun. Not to excited. But as I've said before. Better than getting skunked. There's been one area I've been trying to get since phase 1 that I still have yet to get an archery, ML, or GG for it. Not a big or popular area. It's annoying that I haven't been able to get a single permit for it.

    So why put in for permits you aren't excited to get? I've yet to put in for any permits I'm not stoked to use if I get it. In fact, I've yet to apply for more than 3 permits in any one application. I'm not going to put in for 5 choices just because I can, especially when there's no chance I will use any of the others I don't really want. Moreover, I have already made plans for several of the weekends where there were permits available for areas I would use. But since I already have plans, there's no sense in applying for those permits either. I hope who ever drew them uses them and is successful.

    Whoever made the comment about the lotto, you're being fatuous. Lottery winning odds are 14 million to 1 as there is 1 prize and 14 million number combinations that could hit. There aren't 14 million people applying for 1 permit. There aren't 14 million applications. There's about 10,000 applications at most. Your odds are more like 2000 to 1 at worst. Your odds are better depending on the number of permits available for each hunt type and the number of applicants for each chosen. If you look at it on an area by area basis, your odds go up still as there are always more permits than you have choices and no everyone is vying for the same tags.

    Reel Teal hit it on the head. Keep complaining and you'll lose the redraws entirely.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • TheSnookManTheSnookMan Posts: 430 Officer
    Ive gotten 2 permits out of 3 attempts
  • bowhunter4lifebowhunter4life Posts: 1,491 Officer
    I have no complaints with the new system. I got one decent archery permit so far,and most of my friends have gotten something as well. Its a hell of a lot better than busting my tail every Tuesday morning ,trying to leave work,to get to a computer that rarely let me in. :shrug
  • JPizzleJPizzle Posts: 243 Deckhand
    I have been out of the office all day and just got back in a few minutes ago to do some paperwork. I drew a permit. This is my second in 3 tries while having the lottery. And all I have been applying for are general gun only due to the timing in the season. I never had time before at the Tuesday 10 am FCFS. And for the guys complaining, there is maybe 20 people on this thread that said they didn't get anything. Don't think that this forum is a great sample of the odds of actually drawing. Some places only had maybe 2 permits and I am sure there are hundreds of people applying.
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 828 Officer
    I wasn't a complainer..I made out 3/4 available at a single specific WMA I want to hunt so I can't complain....I'm sure next year could be harder so I'll diversify this scouting season....I got all my attention on 1 WMA....

    BUT..Just wondering...does FWC TRACK No shows? Do they know who and how frequent a Customer gets ande then no-shows. Do they/Would they do anything with THAT information relative to future draws??

    Like was said..it would be EASY for a few groups to lock all there permits up and not go....

    Anyone have any insight?
  • PinkIndian321PinkIndian321 Posts: 489 Deckhand
    I've been skunked so far........no good.
  • deerfootdeerfoot Posts: 493 Deckhand
    Each wma is going to have many no shows but in a way it isnt bad.The guest tags will make up for them so it will total out.Not a bad thing in a way because this way wmas wont get overhunted.My biggest concern was that this guest tag system would cause many areas to get overkill.But it should balance out alright.
  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    Nothing again for me or any buddies. Not one permit since the Ph 4 began.
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • GT FishGT Fish Posts: 9,448 Officer
    I haven't got any permits ever.. Top that!
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  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    huntmstr wrote: »
    So why put in for permits you aren't excited to get?

    Duh because he CAN!

    Same reason tens of thousands of others are doing the same thing every week...and they're doing it with 5 choices per hunt type. It's going to happen with this system and not only does it make everyone's odds horrible, it also leads to many more unused permits.
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    GT Fish wrote: »
    I haven't got any permits ever.. Top that!

    You ever tried? ;)
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    FWC did study the number of no shows prior to the guest permit system and since implementation, as well as number of no shows during the transferable days to present. What they say was two key things. Non-transferable permits increased the no show rate from a state average of 13%. However, with the inclusion of the guest permit, participating hunter numbers increased about the same amount at 15%. What this means is that on the whole, man hours per permit issued remained about the same. Therefore harvest rates remained about the same for each WMA requiring quota permits, especially on those areas where take for more than one deer per permit was allowed. These numbers have not changed since the non-transferable permits have been in place and therefore there is no validity to the claim that non-hunters and anti-hunting groups are gobbling up more of the permits.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    JRussell wrote: »
    Duh because he CAN!

    Same reason tens of thousands of others are doing the same thing every week...and they're doing it with 5 choices per hunt type. It's going to happen with this system and not only does it make everyone's odds horrible, it also leads to many more unused permits.

    "Because he can" is a stupid reason. You can smoke crack too. Does that mean you will or you should?

    If people are applying for permits they have no intention of using simply because they can then there are a lot more stupid people out there than I ever anticipated... and that's saying something.

    Fortunately for the rest of your argument, the numbers don't support your claim. The number of applicants now that it's random draw are not significantly different than they were when it was FCFS. The number of no shows has not increased either. As for permit distribution, more people are getting hunts than before and everyone has an equal chance at drawing a permit randomly as opposed to FCFS where only a few who were fast enough to get logged in before the crash were sucking up all the permits.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • fisherking73fisherking73 Posts: 209 Officer
    Past 4 years I have never drawn a redraw because A) I work most weeks days and can not leave to get access when the drawings occured B)when I did try I could either not log in quick enough, or by the time my computer processed all the permits were gone. I remember hearing all the stories from people gaming the system etc...... and it pretty much disgusted me because that gaming of the system never allowed me to draw or made my chances so slim I never drew. FINALLY this week I drew a redraw permit, on a WMA I have always wanted to check out and hunt, close to home, and I got it with out having 10 of my friends apply for the same permit. I like the new system, I did not draw anything the first few weeks, but figured my odds were much better than the way the system was before. Like mentioned, I feel those complaining are the ones who gamed the system and had an army of friends and family members online at 9:59am on Tuesdays.
  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    huntmstr wrote: »
    "Because he can" is a stupid reason. You can smoke crack too. Does that mean you will or you should?

    Call it what you want but its happening and will continue to happen despite your opinion that's its stupid.

    Crack is illegal and very dangerous. Picking 5 choices in the weekly drawing is legal and not dangerous. You would almost have to be smoking it to think that's a good comparison lol.
    huntmstr wrote: »
    Fortunately for the rest of your argument, the numbers don't support your claim. The number of applicants now that it's random draw are not significantly different than they were when it was FCFS. The number of no shows has not increased either.

    The number of applicants may not have increased significantly, BUT the number of choices per applicant is 15X's higher. Obviously if the same amount of people have 15 choices each now vs 1 choice previously that's 15X's more.
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    Past 4 years I have never drawn a redraw because A) I work most weeks days and can not leave to get access when the drawings occured B)when I did try I could either not log in quick enough, or by the time my computer processed all the permits were gone. I remember hearing all the stories from people gaming the system etc...... and it pretty much disgusted me because that gaming of the system never allowed me to draw or made my chances so slim I never drew. FINALLY this week I drew a redraw permit, on a WMA I have always wanted to check out and hunt, close to home, and I got it with out having 10 of my friends apply for the same permit. I like the new system, I did not draw anything the first few weeks, but figured my odds were much better than the way the system was before. Like mentioned, I feel those complaining are the ones who gamed the system and had an army of friends and family members online at 9:59am on Tuesdays.

    If you were waiting till 10am to try and login then that was the problem. Other people aren't gamers just because they thought to be logged in already at 10am.
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • bowhunter4lifebowhunter4life Posts: 1,491 Officer
    :Popcorn:Popcorn
    JRussell wrote: »
    If you were waiting till 10am to try and login then that was the problem. Other people aren't gamers just because they thought to be logged in already at 10am.
    Here we go again!...
  • pbsnookerpbsnooker Posts: 882 Officer
    Some people just don't get it! JRussell how many quota hunts have you already hunted this year, and how many have you returned? And would You honestly pick areas that you knew you wouldnt hunt, just because? I would expect someone to maybe apply for a place they have never been to with intentions of going, and if not able to, to return the permit.
  • GT FishGT Fish Posts: 9,448 Officer
    JRussell wrote: »
    You ever tried? ;)
    I try all the time..Usually end up in small game shooting hogs. :(
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  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    pbsnooker wrote: »
    Some people just don't get it! JRussell how many quota hunts have you already hunted this year, and how many have you returned? And would You honestly pick areas that you knew you wouldnt hunt, just because? I would expect someone to maybe apply for a place they have never been to with intentions of going, and if not able to, to return the permit.

    No I wouldn't bother to pick something I can't/won't use. That doesn't mean others will do the same though. They just need to change it to 1 or maybe 2 choices per hunt type.
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • fisherking73fisherking73 Posts: 209 Officer
    By gaming I do not only mean being logged on before 10 am lol the gaming is not so much with the drawing attempts as to the point system scams that due to restructure they have also eliminated (must turn in your permits 10 days prior to a hunt hint hint or lose your points anyways). But again, having a bunch of people logging in to snatch the redraw permits vs random drawing, I do not see what the problem is? Unless you have lots of free time and free friends on Tuesday mornings to sit and wait for application time. Those that are complaining, talk about how many (as in multiple) hunts they use to draw and boo hoo now they only drew one or none. I am happy if I can get one decent hunt period. If it is truly random, then my odds are just as good as your odds, and that is what many seem not to like. Not being able to tip the odds in their favor anymore by beating the clock with several computers accessing at same time, friends joining forces to race to the permits(first come first serve way) upsets them because now they have no control, they can only put their ticket in the hat just like me and wait for the hand to pull one out.
  • fisherking73fisherking73 Posts: 209 Officer
    And the only places I put in for are places I have hunted, places I have hiked, or places I have been wanting to get to, but just have never gotten the chance. I would never apply for somewhere just for the sake of applying like you said many are doing now. Makes no sense to do that. I apply where I truly want to go, and hope for the best.
  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    By gaming I do not only mean being logged on before 10 am lol the gaming is not so much with the drawing attempts as to the point system scams that due to restructure they have also eliminated (must turn in your permits 10 days prior to a hunt hint hint or lose your points anyways). But again, having a bunch of people logging in to snatch the redraw permits vs random drawing, I do not see what the problem is? Unless you have lots of free time and free friends on Tuesday mornings to sit and wait for application time. Those that are complaining, talk about how many (as in multiple) hunts they use to draw and boo hoo now they only drew one or none. I am happy if I can get one decent hunt period. If it is truly random, then my odds are just as good as your odds, and that is what many seem not to like. Not being able to tip the odds in their favor anymore by beating the clock with several computers accessing at same time, friends joining forces to race to the permits(first come first serve way) upsets them because now they have no control, they can only put their ticket in the hat just like me and wait for the hand to pull one out.

    Yeah I get all that and here we are. I just think with the very limited amount of permits available there should be 1-2 choices max not 5. That would benefit everyone by increasing their odds.
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • SmokedSmoked Posts: 31 Deckhand
    Skunked! This is my first time ever not pulling 1 single hunt.
  • If_it_flies_it_diesIf_it_flies_it_dies Posts: 1,133 Officer
    I didn't say I applied where I wouldn't hunt. Just that I would have never applied for these places during FCFS because they are sought after or out of my area. Sure I could hunt a weekend of a two week quota, just wouldn't have bothered trying as my first choice. FCFS gave you a shot at ONE permit, not 15. Would love to see the odds on pulling some of the more sought after permits since the random went into effect.

    Just for the record I wasn't "gaming" anything. I got lucky and pulled a couple of permits last as well as this year, close to home where I wanted to hunt and was satisfied. Didn't even bother applying after I got those couple close to home.
  • If_it_flies_it_diesIf_it_flies_it_dies Posts: 1,133 Officer
    JRussell wrote: »
    Yeah I get all that and here we are. I just think with the very limited amount of permits available there should be 1-2 choices max not 5. That would benefit everyone by increasing their odds.

    Why doesn't anyone else understand this? It's really simple..
  • fisherking73fisherking73 Posts: 209 Officer
    JRussell wrote: »
    Yeah I get all that and here we are. I just think with the very limited amount of permits available there should be 1-2 choices max not 5. That would benefit everyone by increasing their odds.
    OK I hear you, that would not be bad either. Limit the number of hunts you can pick. Maybe 2-3? These last 2 draws there were 3 on the first and 2 this week that I put in for, did not bother with the others as I have no intention of going to those places. I see what you are saying now, and yeah not a bad idea to limit total number that way people have to apply to where they REALLY want only.Not sure what the magic number would be on that, thats a tough one.
  • If_it_flies_it_diesIf_it_flies_it_dies Posts: 1,133 Officer
    OK I hear you, that would not be bad either. Limit the number of hunts you can pick. Maybe 2-3? These last 2 draws there were 3 on the first and 2 this week that I put in for, did not bother with the others as I have no intention of going to those places. I see what you are saying now, and yeah not a bad idea to limit total number that way people have to apply to where they REALLY want only.Not sure what the magic number would be on that, thats a tough one.

    ONE
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    Why stop at limiting one choice per hunt? Why not also make it a rule then if you drew a hunt already, you can't enter phase 4? That would be even more fair now wouldn't it?

    This is real simple. You're not getting all the permits you once did under FCFS and it makes you mad. So rather than concede that this is truly a fair system, you're looking for ways to complain about it to justify your anger and limit everyone's chances to get additional permits.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
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