AL and MS are now noncompliant for Fed red snapper season

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  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    I sure wish FL. would go ahead & keep ARS open in the GoM for us Rec. guys every W.E. thru Memorial Day... It would be a nice little economic boost for coastal cities (esp. along the Panhandle) & I can attest there's no shortage of ARS in State Waters up here (hell, even I can catch 'em)
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • notreelynotreely Posts: 653 Officer
    I sure wish FL. would go ahead & keep ARS open in the GoM for us Rec. guys every W.E. thru Memorial Day... It would be a nice little economic boost for coastal cities (esp. along the Panhandle) & I can attest there's no shortage of ARS in State Waters up here (hell, even I can catch 'em)

    Just tow your boat over to Louisiana !
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    notreely wrote: »
    notreely wrote: »

    Federal permitted vessels declare they are able to participate in the fishery by being required to have a permit,that permit provides passenger capacity and vessel size.
    By issuing charter captains fishing license, florida has no idea to the number of vessels or passengers that can participate in the fishery.
    Yes state for hire VESSELS should have to report !
    My point is before anyone hands over the control of the fishery to the state because of data complaints. They should realize Florida's data is no better and In fact worse then the Feds.

    You are wrong....but we will let you live with your incorrectness....
    The reality is Florida has the ability and capacity to perform much better data collection than NMFS will ever hope for, but you seem to be some kind of data expert and I am just a lowly Actuarial Analyst and Statistician with 30 years experience in data collection.
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • notreelynotreely Posts: 653 Officer
    notreely wrote: »

    You are wrong....but we will let you live with your incorrectness....
    The reality is Florida has the ability and capacity to perform much better data collection than NMFS will ever hope for, but you seem to be some kind of data expert and I am just a lowly Actuarial Analyst and Statistician with 30 years experience in data collection.

    Bob, 1197 vessels are eligible to fish for reef fish in the for hire sector within the federal waters of the Gulf of Mexico. The passenger capacity of each vessel is on file with the NMFS.

    So with your Actuarial Analyst and Statistician skills and 30 years experience in data collection, can you tell me how many non federally permitted vessels are Eligible to fish for reef fish in the for hire state reef fishery and with whom I would be able to find out the passenger capacity of those vessels.
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    notreely wrote: »
    notreely wrote: »

    Bob, 1197 vessels are eligible to fish for reef fish in the for hire sector within the federal waters of the Gulf of Mexico. The passenger capacity of each vessel is on file with the NMFS.

    So with your Actuarial Analyst and Statistician skills and 30 years experience in data collection, can you tell me how many non federally permitted vessels are Eligible to fish for reef fish in the for hire state reef fishery and with whom I would be able to find out the passenger capacity of those vessels.

    Approximately 11k or so since there is no restriction or limited access to state reef fisheries at this time....
    Now how many are active, at this time we don't know because nobody is asking...

    But you made the comment that we have no way of knowing who or how many, which is completely wrong.
    We have on file each of these operators addresses, phone and email (if applicable) and could in a manner of months develop a weekly reporting system and within 1 year of that have a full accounting that would be more solid than the non existent one that is in use for the federally permitted vessel, which by the way we do not know, how many passengers they carry a day, because just because they can take 8 does that mean there is 8 on each trip?
    What if they take multiple trips in a day or multiday trips?
    How many trips per year is each federal operator taking?

    Who many dormant permits are there?
    How many GOM permits have addresses in NC, SC, and GA?

    Hopefully you are beginning to see that the current state of ALL RECREATIONAL DATA is terrible and NMFS continues to go down a path that takes them farther from sound, reliable, valid data collection.

    This whole Sector Separation SCAM will be based on lies (over reporting by greedy permit holders), distortions (bad data form NMFS), and extraordinary unknowns, that will only hurt....not help the GOM reef fish fishery.

    So you are either for Quality Data First or you are simply someone who could care less about the fishery.
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • notreelynotreely Posts: 653 Officer
    notreely wrote: »

    Approximately 11k or so since there is no restriction or limited access to state reef fisheries at this time....
    Now how many are active, at this time we don't know because nobody is asking...

    But you made the comment that we have no way of knowing who or how many, which is completely wrong.
    We have on file each of these operators addresses, phone and email (if applicable) and could in a manner of months develop a weekly reporting system and within 1 year of that have a full accounting that would be more solid than the non existent one that is in use for the federally permitted vessel, which by the way we do not know, how many passengers they carry a day, because just because they can take 8 does that mean there is 8 on each trip?
    What if they take multiple trips in a day or multiday trips?
    How many trips per year is each federal operator taking?

    Who many dormant permits are there?
    How many GOM permits have addresses in NC, SC, and GA?

    Hopefully you are beginning to see that the current state of ALL RECREATIONAL DATA is terrible and NMFS continues to go down a path that takes them farther from sound, reliable, valid data collection.

    This whole Sector Separation SCAM will be based on lies (over reporting by greedy permit holders), distortions (bad data form NMFS), and extraordinary unknowns, that will only hurt....not help the GOM reef fish fishery.

    So you are either for Quality Data First or you are simply someone who could care less about the fishery.

    Or maybe it's that's no one is answering! Ok bob I do see your point , I happen to look at it another way.
    But maybe out of our semantics dance we could agree on something.
    The state of florida should have some sort of tracking and reporting of for hire effort.
    I'm sure a small fee could be attached to the for hire licenses to cover the costs.
    Maybe a stamp endorsement like snook and crawfish for inshore, nearshore, reef and offshore fisheries could be created with the information of the vessel be used.

    Maybe a thread could be started to discuss the merits and design of such a program.
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    notreely wrote: »
    notreely wrote: »

    Or maybe it's that's no one is answering! Ok bob I do see your point , I happen to look at it another way.
    But maybe out of our semantics dance we could agree on something.
    The state of florida should have some sort of tracking and reporting of for hire effort.
    I'm sure a small fee could be attached to the for hire licenses to cover the costs.
    Maybe a stamp endorsement like snook and crawfish for inshore, nearshore, reef and offshore fisheries could be created with the information of the vessel be used.

    Maybe a thread could be started to discuss the merits and design of such a program.

    The Florida For Hire effort is tracked exactly as the Federal Permit vessels are....a random phone call is made and a random sample is pulled...
    There is no mandatory reporting right now for either state or federal for hire and using vessel assumption of capacity is no different that using the passenger capacity for a license.


    Funny you should say that as we are currently working on putting in place a system that will eventually count Florida's fishermen. I have with other concerned stakeholders have been working with FWRI to design and implement such a plan. It will start with reef fish and hopefully build form there. It has been funded with BP dollars.
    Ultimately we would like to tell the FEDS to go pound sand with their bogus numbers.
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 385 Officer
    Thanks for the clarity Capt B. Can't wait to see what you guys have to deliver.

    not reeeeeeelllllyyy smart. so it was either you, or flubba, mentioned in another post about how the NMFS and the councils use states data....now I see where you are saying the states data is wrong, specifically; 'They should realize Florida's data is no better and In fact worse then the Feds.' So what is it? You say on one hand the data is sound for decisions that the councils make re: the current fiasco of sector sep, IFQ etc. yet tacitly you admit the data is flawed. So which way is the old eco flag blowing today?

    BTW, had a good laugh at your over cap comment. Like you've ever been a party to any takeover, purchase of a company or anything else business related on a major scale. Good to see you kept your BA-101 notes - your prof would be so proud of you.

    The reason the data questions are never, ever going to be addressed are simple. The data, the real ground truth data will blow the whole scheme to little tiny pieces. Can't have that, got to hoard that lucrative PUBLIC resource so as to generate maximum profit for those few who have a seat at the table. Why sell snaps here for $21 a lb when you can sell it overseas for triple that...Oh yeah, which reminds me...Hey absolute zero...still waiting on your report on import/export.....ignoring the truth only re-emphasizes what a flak you truly are.

    Let's get the data, thanks capt B., let's assess, then move forward. The hide-and-seek methodology of present day "management" based on fantasy land figures and misrepresentations must end for the benefit of the fishery - for all of us.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,959 Admiral
    import/export?

    not what you asked for, typ
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 385 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    import/export?

    not what you asked for, typ

    Uhh, yes it is. go back and read it. Still waiting BTW.....
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,959 Admiral
    This is what you asked for dipcheese;



    I'll give you a hint...focus on FAIR and EQUITABLE vis-a-vis the number of comm's/rec's engaged in the fishery. See how the TAC breaks out percentage wise and then tell us, oh -273 degrees Kelvin one, how that is fair and equitable IAW NS #4.

    Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?157007-Organized-group-for-Recreational-fishermen/page4#ixzz37glW1Eyh







    from my point of view it's just fine.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
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