Bow Steering at Slower Speeds

91tiger91tiger Posts: 536 Officer
Every time I use my boat (2012 - 189) I am always surprised how badly the hull tracks at slower speeds. I'm talking fast idle speeds, once you are on plane you can let go of the wheel, and eat a sandwich. I noticed it in the 189 that I water tested as well so it's not just my boat. I've had a lot of people with me comment on it their first time on the boat. It always surprises me with the sharp bow entry and hull dead rise I would have thought it would track great. The only time it ever bothers me is going through long slow speed zones like Tarpon Creek down at Flamingo. I have noticed giving it a little down tab does seem to help it a lot.

When I was on my test ride with Frank, I mentioned it to him and he said I was over steering, I just let it go. This is my 4th boat and my Dad has had 4 as well, and it’s never been an issue on any other boat we have owned.

I'm surprised I've never seen it mentioned on here. Just curious what causes it; my guess is it's something with the chines trapping water and it pulling one side or the other as you idle with the bow pushed up higher out of the water.

Replies

  • Carolina FlyCarolina Fly Posts: 66 Deckhand
    Glad you brought this up. Mine is a 16 so you would think it would turn quicker than yours but it seems hard to keep from swinging back and forth at idle speeds. My old boat was similar to a 189 but without the steep bow angle and it was much easier to load or go through tight areas. It did have cable steering rather than the hydraulic on the Egret. I have looked like a complete novice many times trying to load the 167 onto the trailer. Sometimes I turn the wheel and it seems like nothing much happens then when it finally does it may be too late to turn back. I've given my guideposts a workout at times when the current is heavy (which it is much of the time when I fish SC)
  • camgcicamgci Posts: 185 Deckhand
    The 1995 fiberglass Egret I had was terrible tracking back & forth at slow speeds. Would drive me nuts on a long idle zone in a narrow canal. I found it helped if I had someone sit up front near the bow.

    The 2002 CK I have now doesn't do it at all. Doesn't make sense to me because this boat has a jack plate, so I would think the engine weight being a little further back would make the situation worst. I kind of contributed it to maybe the steering system on the older boat.
  • FishinMcNutFishinMcNut Posts: 536 Officer
    I used to constantly correct the wheel until a buddy of mine suggest I stop chasing it and see what it does. He was right. The boat just wandered a little back and forth but remained headed in the original direction. Lesson learned. Leave it alone...
  • 91tiger91tiger Posts: 536 Officer
    I do agree that not trying to correct for it makes it somewhat better and I notice it much less the longer I own the boat. I wasn't even aware of it Saturday and one of my passengers asked about it. As I said putting the tabs down when putting it back on the trailer or on a long idle helps a lot. Very similar to Camgci's solution of having someone sit up front. Just curious what it is in the hull design that causes it. Having such a long running surface and sharp entry seems like it would track like a dream. Maybe Captain Pete can weigh in.
  • silverdreamssilverdreams Posts: 220 Deckhand
    It's the sharp entry of the bow....we have a "rudder" on the front of the boat. I have a 2000 189 and it does the same thing and like someone said, if you don't chase it, it's fine. I've had several other flats boats and didn't have this problem, but they didn't have the sharp bow entry. It's the same principal as sticking your hand horizontally out the window and lifting the front edge up or down just a bit....it corrects significantly. When you are on plane, the sharp bow is out of the water and no more issues.

    I will take the "drifting" while idling at slow speeds any day in exchange for the benefits the sharp entry adds to the soft ride.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,305 Officer
    91tiger wrote: »
    Every time I use my boat (2012 - 189) I am always surprised how badly the hull tracks at slower speeds. I'm talking fast idle speeds, once you are on plane you can let go of the wheel, and eat a sandwich. I noticed it in the 189 that I water tested as well so it's not just my boat. I've had a lot of people with me comment on it their first time on the boat. It always surprises me with the sharp bow entry and hull dead rise I would have thought it would track great. The only time it ever bothers me is going through long slow speed zones like Tarpon Creek down at Flamingo. I have noticed giving it a little down tab does seem to help it a lot.

    When I was on my test ride with Frank, I mentioned it to him and he said I was over steering, I just let it go. This is my 4th boat and my Dad has had 4 as well, and it’s never been an issue on any other boat we have owned.

    I'm surprised I've never seen it mentioned on here. Just curious what causes it; my guess is it's something with the chines trapping water and it pulling one side or the other as you idle with the bow pushed up higher out of the water.

    Don't over correct and you'll be fine!
    I learned that when i had my 189.
    The 2011 does not do this it tracks straight!
    Time for a upgrade Chip! Lol :grin
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,010 Officer
    91tiger wrote: »
    I do agree that not trying to correct for it makes it somewhat better and I notice it much less the longer I own the boat. I wasn't even aware of it Saturday and one of my passengers asked about it. As I said putting the tabs down when putting it back on the trailer or on a long idle helps a lot. Very similar to Camgci's solution of having someone sit up front. Just curious what it is in the hull design that causes it. Having such a long running surface and sharp entry seems like it would track like a dream. Maybe Captain Pete can weigh in.

    The first thing I want to say it that the boat does not bow steer. If you want to test it put the tabs down all the way and push the throttle. The boat will go straight. If you try that in other flats boats, some will get very scary very fast.

    Ok here goes....the whys and why not. The boat was designed to ride well in chop ad pivot well when poling. You will notice that the bow are on the Egrets is not like any other flats boats. This design keeps the bow from falling thru a wave. The boat will ride on top of the waves. In addition, the boat will rise over large waves before they break over the deck when drifting in conditions were large waves would normally come over the deck in other flats boats. The other factor is the hull rocker. This is why the boat pivots so well when poling.

    So what you guys are experiencing is the bow wanting to get on plane at slow speed. The wandering is enhanced by the rocker at slow speed because you at trying to correct it. The solution is to leave it the hell alone or give it a little more gas. The boat will go straight at slow speed.

    Now if your go thru Buttonwood Canal and Tarpon Creek long enough. Your boat will learn it own way back to ramp and you won't have to steer. Tight Lines... Pete
  • Daniel79Daniel79 Posts: 39 Deckhand
    Not to say it does not happen, but I've never noticed this at all. In fact, I feel the boat tracks very well at slow speed/idle. I used to have a maverick 18.5 MA that also had a deep vee. It was very easy, even in windy conditions, to load onto the trailer. I upgraded to a 22 pathfinder, and noticed a big difference when trying to place the boat on trailer. The patfinder had a much broader vee and did not nearly track at well at slow speeds, and even worse when at wind was involved. IME,the egret is similar to my old maverick, tracks well and very easy to load on trailer.
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,010 Officer
    91tiger wrote: »
    I do agree that not trying to correct for it makes it somewhat better and I notice it much less the longer I own the boat. I wasn't even aware of it Saturday and one of my passengers asked about it. As I said putting the tabs down when putting it back on the trailer or on a long idle helps a lot. Very similar to Camgci's solution of having someone sit up front. Just curious what it is in the hull design that causes it. Having such a long running surface and sharp entry seems like it would track like a dream. Maybe Captain Pete can weigh in.

    Sorry I forgot to address the trailer loading in my previous reply. Any boat, it doesn't have to be an Egret. The trailer must be setup correctly if you want to launch/load the boat with ease. The other important factor is how far you back the trailer into the water when you are going to load the boat. If your bunks are mostly submerged then they will not aid in aligning your boat correctly. Go slow, let the boat settle into position between the bunks. Make sure the engine is straight and give it a little power. If that's not it, then you need more practice. Tight lines... Pete
  • UFGator86UFGator86 Posts: 99 Deckhand
    I've had two 18 9's. Run it 1000 to 1200 with the tabs down and she'll run like and arrow, not throw a ripple and you will be out of the no wake before you know it! I think the weight to HP has an impact as well but I'm not naval architect!
  • 91tiger91tiger Posts: 536 Officer
    Thanks for the replies guys. Interesting that some have never noticed it and some have. Pete thanks for explaining reasons, that's exactly what I was looking for...just curious about the why. I agree the fix is easy, tabs down or speed up slightly.
  • Carolina FlyCarolina Fly Posts: 66 Deckhand
    I will definitely try the tabs down idea. I think in my case the other factor is that the hydraulic steering is a little "squishier" than the cable steering I was used to before. Moving the wheel just slightly doesn't seem to register as positively as the cable steering did.
  • BluebirdBluebird Posts: 126 Officer
    I dunno who said it first, but if you stop chasing it you'll notice she wiggles like a snake. Sometimes I got out a 1 mile long no wake. that'll learn ya!
  • Last-CastLast-Cast Posts: 197 Deckhand
    To add to the leave it alone practice. Try trimming the engine up a little. If your engine is trimmed all the way down you will find the boat drifting to get on plane. As most of us know the boat like to run
    Egret 189
    Maverick 17T sold
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    I'd hate to be running 50+ and have that blunt bow hook-up when running in a chop.
  • polepositionpoleposition Posts: 1,052 Officer
    I'd hate to be running 50+ and have that blunt bow hook-up when running in a chop.

    Baits out!
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 935 Officer
    I'd hate to be running 50+ and have that blunt bow hook-up when running in a chop.

    That might happen in a Hewes. But not possible in an Egret due to the design of the bow. Seems to ride better in rough water with tabs down a little so the bow does plow the waves some and I find going faster into the waves often helps to smooth the ride more. Just slices right through. There is no hooking up into a wave at all even at those much faster speeds.
  • polepositionpoleposition Posts: 1,052 Officer
    ...and he has one already!!!
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    ...and he has one already!!!


    Ladyfish chunk, 3/0 owner circle hook.


    I'll just leave it in the rod holder until it tuckers out!
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    On a more serious note (not really!), this thread caught my attention because one of the posters on this discussion has hooked-up the bow of his boat and launched one of his passengers.


    Just wondering how many other bird owners have done the same?
  • polepositionpoleposition Posts: 1,052 Officer
    Sly, just changed the bait presentation a little. It does work sometimes though.
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    It's a factual account, so it's not really a change on presentation.




    I would like hear egrets landing explanation on how the straight bow of the egret eliminates bow steer compared to boats with a reverse sheer.
  • polepositionpoleposition Posts: 1,052 Officer
    You can call it what you want. Topwater, chunk, jig. It's all fishing.

    Regardless,
    I really hope you get the explanation you hope to hear. These questions of sheer are game changers. Egrets, or ANY other owner, please heed the call to answer this man's curiosity. Got an itch, gotta scratch.

    ... If we are honest here, this stuff got old a real long time ago. You should be bored in that it is way too easy.
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    I like to check in a couple times a year, John!



    I always find it entertaining how one owner claims they have an issue with their (egret) boat, then you have the egret round mouths tell them they're wrong! It's not reminding you of the MBC gang?



    My boat porpoises.....


    no it doesn't..... That's part of the design.....
  • polepositionpoleposition Posts: 1,052 Officer
    Here is an idea Tommy, Jason or whoever you are:

    Leave it alone. You've pointed it out here and elsewhere time and time again. Don't let it irritate you. I can report I feel a lot better since I have accepted the way the world is. No more "round mouth" insults, no more baiting. Just fishing off whatever makes you happy.

    ....if not, have you tried the "politics" section? That place offers tons of the type of people and entertainment you describe.

    Regardless, I'm out. Going to crawl back into my happy place and enjoy my drama reduced lifestyle. All the best with yours. Really.
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    Sorry John, I didn't mean to stress you.



    I personally think it's a good subject that was raised.
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,010 Officer
    Sorry John, I didn't mean to stress you.



    I personally think it's a good subject that was raised.
    Welcome Back! long time I don't hear you stirring the pot. I can say that sometimes it's good to keep the Egret guys in check. That is if in fact there's a problem with the boat. As far I've been able to experience, for my style of fishing. there is no better boat on the market. Hope to see you on the water...Pete
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    Welcome Back! long time I don't hear you stirring the pot. I can say that sometimes it's good to keep the Egret guys in check. That is if in fact there's a problem with the boat. As far I've been able to experience, for my style of fishing. there is no better boat on the market. Hope to see you on the water...Pete


    I'm continually impressed by the quality of the old consolidated built boats. Really built well and a great boat for the glades.


    like any other boat, the egret will have nuances and quirks. Embrace them!


    How's the snooking been in the glades? Might make it this weekend if I can get a hall pass.
  • jk085016jk085016 Posts: 31 Deckhand
    Simply put your trim tabs all the way down and your Egret will track straight a very slow speeds
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 596 Officer
    I used to constantly correct the wheel until a buddy of mine suggest I stop chasing it and see what it does. He was right. The boat just wandered a little back and forth but remained headed in the original direction. Lesson learned. Leave it alone...

    BEST ADVICE HERE.
    Renagade69 wrote: »
    Either you are mechanically inclined ore your not. The fact you had to ask told me that you can not do it. Its ok, not every one has this ability. Some people just have to pay.
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