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Worth giving Daiwa a shot?

I've owned a Shimano Stradic Ci4-4000F for a little under a year. It's been to Flamingo numerous times, caught 8lb largemouth, 12# Snook, 9# Redfish, etc, etc. After less than a year of ownership I started to notice it was a bit rough on the retrieve. Today I noticed the handle kind of wiggles up and down while rotating and even becomes stuck at certain points of the retrieve.

I removed the handle and could see rust inside. Now, I've maintenance this reel at least twice since owning it. I always rinse with soap and freshwater after use, loosen the drag and store with a reel cover. I've done nothing but take good care of this rod.

Since I started kayak fishing, it's been dunked in the salt water a few times. Maybe that is the issue? Or could it be violently trying to free my lures from branches?

In any case, I've researched the Daiwa Ballistic in the 3000 size, and while it weighs a bit more than the new Ci4+ and has significantly less drag, it sure does have good reviews. A lot of guides use Daiwa over Shimano.
It's only $20 less, so the price is not the issue. I was just thinking I ought to give Daiwa a shot, since Shimano's really given me no reason to be loyal to them just yet.

For the record, I own a Shimano Citica and a Shimano Saros, my only Daiwa reel is a Laguna bait caster I use for freshwater.

Any advice or opinions?
Wilderness Systems Pro Staff
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Proud US Navy Vet' 2007-2012
Proud Owner Wilderness Systems Ride 135

Replies

  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    You're not the 1st person to c/o of 'premature' failure of the Ci4s... Kayak fishing (dunking in salt) is tough on all reels, but it seems it's extra tough on Ci4s ???
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • fishboyfishboy Posts: 1,326 Officer
    I have a couple daiwa reels including the BG and they are pretty bulletproof... Penn also makes some nice reels.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    I have both (Ci4 4000 and Ballistic 4000 too)
    Ci4, in my opinion, is really better than Ballistic (I yet knew before buying, but I was looking for a light 6000 size Shimano-equivalent).
    So, Ballistic is not a bad reel but do not wait the same performance of Stradic Ci4.

    About the rust problem is very strange, I own 4 Ci4 (I bought the first one 3 years ago from USA, when it wasn't still present in the european market), 2 of them used only in SW, and I've never found corrosion problem.
    My suggestion is to show the problem at your reseller, if you bought it less than one year ago it should be covered by warranty (I think, I don't know your commercial rules).

    P.S. don't trust the daiwa catalog, my Ballistic weight is (+/-) 1 Oz more than declared (no problem, in any case is a very light reel).
    P.P.S. Also my Ballistic in from USA, from a Flo reseller (still not present in european market according to what I know).
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
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    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
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  • bonephishbonephish Posts: 1,488 Officer
    If you want a really tough reel, buy a Quantum Cabo. The Cabos have big gears, titanium bail, no bail spring, and the smoothest drag on the planet.:thumbsup
  • superdupersuperduper Posts: 1,927 Captain
    ive dunked my ci4 twice, quickly, with no rinse off, and never had an issue. shimanos have a pretty tight fit, and i have my reel well lubed, so that im sure helps.

    id check your main nut under the spool, that holds the rotor down. i cant remember if the ci4 has a set screw to hold the nut in place or not. the FJ doesnt, and i had some play in my handle the other day, noticed that nut was getting loose. solved that.

    as far as rust. i still dont think rinsing with water is a great idea. especially with any pressure behind it. salt water causes rust fast, but that doesnt mean freshwater doesnt. water makes rust, if you ask me.

    i still think shimano is the best reels out there as far as the light stuff.

    id suggest when you first get a reel, take off the handle and cover, oil the bearings good, then put grease on top of them.
    i try to put grease anywhere i can get it easily, where water can get it. the idea is to create a barrier from any water possibly getting in.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    Quantum are great reels but quite heavy
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    superduper wrote: »
    i try to put grease anywhere i can get it easily, where water can get it. the idea is to create a barrier from any water possibly getting in.
    I do the same, with paraffin grease :wink
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • Jack HexterJack Hexter New Port RicheyPosts: 5,017 Moderator
    I've fished a 3000 Ballistic for about 3 years and have no problems. I use it more than my 3000 Certate which costs twice as much and is actually smoother, but weighs more. IMHO, the "New" Ci4+ is not worth the money. If you must have a Ci4, get last years model.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    IMHO, the "New" Ci4+ is not worth the money. If you must have a Ci4, get last years model.
    Definetly !
    The Ci4+ seems not more than a merketing operation (in fact I bought my last one Ci4 less than two months ago at great price because new Ci4+ is arriving).
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • superdupersuperduper Posts: 1,927 Captain
    in my opinion the new ci4 + is better than the original.
    i couldnt confirm the body is any stronger, but ill believe me when they say it is anyway.
    the drag clicker is nicer sounding, but more parts. highly doubt thats better than the repairable clicker in the original, but it sounds better.
    i think adding the xship is the biggest improvement though. i find the + noticeably smoother than my original.

    i cant complain about the price, because i was able to sell my old ci4 and get a new one with an extra 20 bucks, so that was not a drawback.

    not sure if id pay full retail for one though..
  • parker25parker25 Posts: 87 Greenhorn
    i have a ci4 that i bought used and i am not impressed with it at all.The frame is weak as it woobles around when reeling in fish.it is light .but that is the only thing i like about it.i have used for about 6=8 months and i am starting to feel it binding up slightly the more i use it.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    superduper wrote: »
    in my opinion the new ci4 + is better than the original.
    i couldnt confirm the body is any stronger, but ill believe me when they say it is anyway.
    the drag clicker is nicer sounding, but more parts. highly doubt thats better than the repairable clicker in the original, but it sounds better.
    i think adding the xship is the biggest improvement though. i find the + noticeably smoother than my original.

    i cant complain about the price, because i was able to sell my old ci4 and get a new one with an extra 20 bucks, so that was not a drawback.

    not sure if id pay full retail for one though..
    Yes, any new model adds some new technological features but for now isn't a real revolution (like was, for istance, the FI).

    IMHO what lacks in Shimano catalog are the 6000/8000 sizes in Ci4 (the average weight of a Shimano 6000/8000 is 1 pound or more).
    My friend (Shimano pro staff in Italy) says that the reason are the metal components (ball bearing, pineon, spool, etc.) of the reel. In fact the potential advantage of Ci4, according to his opininon, is avoided by the metal components weight.

    That's seems a valid reason but doesn't explain why Ballistic 4000 (6000 Shimano-equivalent), wich also has metal components (including aluminium spool), weighs (+/-) 11 Oz.
    So, why not (for instance) a Ci4 spool instead aluminium one ?
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • designated_hitterdesignated_hitter Posts: 837 Officer
    Using reels in a kayak or canoe or wading need more maintenance than normal in my opinion due to them getting splashed and what not. I believe most reels will develop rust if dunked in salt water and not broken down and cleaned shortly after. I also believe keeping them in a reel cover may increase the possibility of rust because they cannot dry out completely. I also keep my reels and rods inside in the ac to eliminate heat and humidity.


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  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    Yes, you're right !
    Is very important dry well the reels (and rods & lures) after any use (also if used from shore, pier and others, because the water arrives with the line).
    And this is mandatory also in FW because as superduper said is water (and not salt) the responsibile of rust (simple the salt, if not well removed, keeps humidity and the corrosion process is faster).
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • Net 30Net 30 Posts: 1,033 Officer
    I've got a bunch of Stradics and over all I've been pretty happy...problem is that Shimano keeps discintinuing models and parts are getting harder if not impossible to find. All the Stradics seem to reach a point where they begin to take a dump and I'm getting tired of dealing with the problems.

    I'm selling them all and going back to what I think were the best spinning reels ever made...Daiwa Tournament SS. I started using these 20 years ago in the Keys and the **** things were indestructible. I asked the last guy who serviced my Stradic reels which brand of reels were the best in his opinion...guess what he said...Daiwa Tournament SS. Nuff said.
  • superdupersuperduper Posts: 1,927 Captain
    i hear great things about the ss. especially about the drag.
    im happy with my 3000FJ which i have had the longest, 2+ years, and used the most consistently and caught some of my nicest fish on.
    i wd40 the moving parts of the handle, and the line roller bearing the most, let sit, shake around, then dump the oil on these parts.
    never had a problem until last week, when the line roller bearing started to make noise. replaced it with the 10 dollar bearing.
    interesting that when i replaced the bearing, the one that came with the reel was sealed, the new one was not, could see right through it. all 11 tiny balls. so i oiled the hell out of it and then put grease all over as water repellant. back to new. great reel. never opened up.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    The ethernal challange between Shimano and Daiwa :grin (also in Italy is the same).
    But at the end, both the brands, make some good stuff and some less.
    Moreover the "quality" of a reel (of any tackle) also depends on the angler feel, attitude, "hand", etc.
    Thanks to God we are all different, any one of us has his view and we are free to make our choise (and communism sucks :grin).
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • USNavy_AnglerUSNavy_Angler Posts: 473 Officer
    I tried the Diawa. First one went bad in three days, but everyone seems to think it's just a lemon. I exchanged for another and giving it a try. Nice to hear from people have had 3000 Ballistic's for 3+ years. I hope mine lasts half that.
    Wilderness Systems Pro Staff
    TEAM DIRTY BADGER :fishing
    Heroes On The Water
    South Florida Chapter Secretary
    [email protected]
    Proud US Navy Vet' 2007-2012
    Proud Owner Wilderness Systems Ride 135
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    Ballistic is a good choice :wink but as I said Stradic Ci4 IMHO is better.
    What occured, in details, at the first one ?

    P.s. I have to admit that to understand "just a lemon" I had to browse in google.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,403 Captain
    I think alot of you have unrealistic expectations of these reels you're buying. Both the stradic and ballistic have a zinc alloy main drive gear, they can do all the x-ship/digigear improvements they want on these reels, the materials used will never hold up to daily use (if you fish hard). As for Shimano not producing parts for these reels 5 years after they're discontinued, sounds reasonable to me. I have a 4 year old fuego that's worn to the point that I'm sure the service department at Daiwa would have a good laugh if I were to send it in. 4 years of steady use is more than I expected from the fuego, and it's ready to be replaced, at this point it's a liability. As for the old ford vs. Chevy debate, I don't have a dog in that fight. I own penns (torque 5), quantums (cabo 50), and several daiwas (fuego 2500, saltiga z5000, isla 4000), and still I look at all options when choosing a new reel. Brand loyalty is a sure fire way to get burned.
  • Edgewater220Edgewater220 Posts: 488 Officer
    I bought a Saltiga this year and love it so far. Typically I buy Shimano and Penn
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Edgewater 220IS (Dan)
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  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    I have a daiwa and it's a sieve for water. I had to break it down twice because the water finds it way all the way to the center of the reel, Good thing is it's easy to take apart. It's been sitting for a few years as a back up. Kayak fishing is hard on reels. My penn slammer has been the best as far as holding up, second best symmetry. I clean and lube after each use.
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

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  • bnzbnz Posts: 183 Deckhand
    Sounds to me mostly like some knowledge is needed in reel maintenance. Head on over to alantani.com and you'll learn plenty about how to properly service your reels. And no, I'm not talking about WD40 either. I've fished with okuma VSystem reels from my kayak since 2006 and they are still going strong, even though externally a few are pretty rough. It's amazing how a little corrosionX HD, TSI 301 and 321, and yahama marine grease can make your reels go a long way. :)
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,970 Admiral
    I bought a Saltiga this year and love it so far
    I haven't problem to believe that :grin !
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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