Resort world has town hall meeting in Bimini

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Replies

  • Stroker AceStroker Ace Posts: 335 Deckhand
    I think it's wonderful that the folks with their million dollar homes in Bimini bay will be surrounded by puking 20 year olds. It's very ironic don't you think?
  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 4,283 Captain
    Keysbear wrote: »
    I wish the people of Bimini nothing but the best. I have traveled there and fished there since the early 80's. I have seen it at its best, and in the last few years, it's worst. I completely understand the economic needs of the citizens of Bimini, and I know they are not being met. The population of Bimini is struggling. That being said, it is my opinion that this Resorts World/Bimini Bay idea is a dumb one. The island is too small and lacks the fresh water, sanitation facilities, and infra-structure to support the "promised" 500,000 visitors a year. The attractiveness and value of the homes that once were Bimini Bay, are severely diminished by the RW development. Nothing like a $1M home on a tropical island , where the sight of drunk 20 something's puking in the common areas is all too common.

    The dredging, filling, and construction will inevitably harm the water and the marine environment that makes Bimini so desirable in the first place. The 1500 residents of Bimini would be much better served by having a voice in the development and direction of their home island, rather than being sold a bunch of BS by Genting and the government in Nassau, that failed to even involve Bimini in their decision to let this development proceed in the first place. When RW collapses, my fear is that the island will be in worse shape than before. A profitable and growing business model centered around recreational fishing, diving, water sports and pristine laid back beaches could be developed if the government of the Bahamas could see past the tips of their greedy outstretched hands.

    Smaller rental and hotel developments, a real charter boat fleet, more eco-friendly tourism, all these could be developed and made profitable if there was a plan and vision for Bimini. Right now I see no such plan. I do know that RW will fail and collapse within two years. There is no demand for another casino in the Bahamas, and the tourists that will come on the boat will come once or twice and then move on. They are not the type of tourists that will appreciate the beauty and uniqueness of the island, and that is a shame.

    Well put. This is how all of us feel I'm sure. Oceanaire, the government is where you should be directing your energy. What's going on in Bimini now will not be long term. All of us have seen these projects come and go in the Bahamas over the years while you were living in the Northeast.
  • theoceanairetheoceanaire Posts: 85 Greenhorn
    2amigo wrote: »
    Well put. This is how all of us feel I'm sure. Oceanaire, the government is where you should be directing your energy. What's going on in Bimini now will not be long term. All of us have seen these projects come and go in the Bahamas over the years while you were living in the Northeast.

    A few misconceptions here. One is that the homes are all "million dollar homes", they are not. Many sold and are available in the $200,000 - $400,000 range, the same as Bimini Sands and other newer construction. I moved to Miami in the early 80's and have spent the last 35 years going back and forth between the Bahamas and South Florida, so I am not unaware of projects started and failing here, usually due to the government more than the project. And sorry to disappoint, but the puking is during three major holidays a year, and that goes on from one end of the island to the other, often by the guests at the hotels on the southern end of North Bimini. These are the kinds of statements that show me that most of the anti posters spend very little time on the island.
    As to your eco-tourism, the hero often brought up here, Guy Harvey, abandoned ship as soon as the money got tight at Big Game, so please don't bring him up as an enviro guy, he is as money hungry as the rest. Eco doesn't work, the locals could care less about developing anything on their own, and so far this project has brought cash and jobs. That is my point entirely.
  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 4,283 Captain
    A few misconceptions here. One is that the homes are all "million dollar homes", they are not. Many sold and are available in the $200,000 - $400,000 range, the same as Bimini Sands and other newer construction. I moved to Miami in the early 80's and have spent the last 35 years going back and forth between the Bahamas and South Florida, so I am not unaware of projects started and failing here, usually due to the government more than the project. And sorry to disappoint, but the puking is during three major holidays a year, and that goes on from one end of the island to the other, often by the guests at the hotels on the southern end of North Bimini. These are the kinds of statements that show me that most of the anti posters spend very little time on the island.
    As to your eco-tourism, the hero often brought up here, Guy Harvey, abandoned ship as soon as the money got tight at Big Game, so please don't bring him up as an enviro guy, he is as money hungry as the rest. Eco doesn't work, the locals could care less about developing anything on their own, and so far this project has brought cash and jobs. That is my point entirely.

    The problem OA is you are not looking down the road but the here and now. These projects have been going on all over the islands and most don't come to fruition. Bimini is too small for these projects. The "puking" will increase with the amount of people they plan on bringing in. The government there makes it very hard to do business unless they are getting their palms greased (like any government). The red tape scares off most people including Guy Harvey. Just look at all the crap Compleat went through. If you read the post I was commenting on, this is the best plan for bringing Bimini back. Not this "Disney" gambling thing they are trying to get going.
  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 4,283 Captain
    Keysbear wrote: »
    I wish the people of Bimini nothing but the best. I have traveled there and fished there since the early 80's. I have seen it at its best, and in the last few years, it's worst. I completely understand the economic needs of the citizens of Bimini, and I know they are not being met. The population of Bimini is struggling. That being said, it is my opinion that this Resorts World/Bimini Bay idea is a dumb one. The island is too small and lacks the fresh water, sanitation facilities, and infra-structure to support the "promised" 500,000 visitors a year. The attractiveness and value of the homes that once were Bimini Bay, are severely diminished by the RW development. Nothing like a $1M home on a tropical island , where the sight of drunk 20 something's puking in the common areas is all too common.

    The dredging, filling, and construction will inevitably harm the water and the marine environment that makes Bimini so desirable in the first place. The 1500 residents of Bimini would be much better served by having a voice in the development and direction of their home island, rather than being sold a bunch of BS by Genting and the government in Nassau, that failed to even involve Bimini in their decision to let this development proceed in the first place. When RW collapses, my fear is that the island will be in worse shape than before. A profitable and growing business model centered around recreational fishing, diving, water sports and pristine laid back beaches could be developed if the government of the Bahamas could see past the tips of their greedy outstretched hands.

    Smaller rental and hotel developments, a real charter boat fleet, more eco-friendly tourism, all these could be developed and made profitable if there was a plan and vision for Bimini. Right now I see no such plan. I do know that RW will fail and collapse within two years. There is no demand for another casino in the Bahamas, and the tourists that will come on the boat will come once or twice and then move on. They are not the type of tourists that will appreciate the beauty and uniqueness of the island, and that is a shame.

    OA read this AGAIN and forget about the puking and home price part.
  • A few misconceptions here. One is that the homes are all "million dollar homes", they are not. Many sold and are available in the $200,000 - $400,000 range, the same as Bimini Sands and other newer construction. I moved to Miami in the early 80's and have spent the last 35 years going back and forth between the Bahamas and South Florida, so I am not unaware of projects started and failing here, usually due to the government more than the project. And sorry to disappoint, but the puking is during three major holidays a year, and that goes on from one end of the island to the other, often by the guests at the hotels on the southern end of North Bimini. These are the kinds of statements that show me that most of the anti posters spend very little time on the island.
    As to your eco-tourism, the hero often brought up here, Guy Harvey, abandoned ship as soon as the money got tight at Big Game, so please don't bring him up as an enviro guy, he is as money hungry as the rest. Eco doesn't work, the locals could care less about developing anything on their own, and so far this project has brought cash and jobs. That is my point entirely.

    I raise the BS flag here!!!!!

    Your comment on Guy Harvey shows your simple minded analysis of everything. Guy Harvey did not leave BGC, BGC decided the money they were paying Guy Harvey int he deal was not worth it since the Guy Harvey foundation never brought one single visitor to BGC.


    Now the ineptitude of Dana Leibovitz, President of RW Bimini, shows thru at every step. These arrogant Bast**** thought they could ignore the Jones Act, the basis of shipping and marine commerce since 1920, and sail trips between US ports without a foreign stop in a foreign built vessel. Anyone with even the slightest understanding of maritime commerce knows that law and its implications in commercial traffic between US ports.

    So now to continue the "night" cruise to nowhere, they are going to have to find a way to actually land in Bimini each and every trip, meaning clear customs, embark or disembark passengers and have a Bahamian clearance documents before they get back to Miami. This also requires full customs and immigration clearance sailing and landing from Miami. Now they have this customs delay going and coming every trip at each end of the sail, Bimini and Miami.

    What kind of inept management buys a $34 million dollar vessel and does not understand the simplest of maritime law in the US???

    What all of us should be concentrating on is how do we get our hands on some of that money before they run with their tails tucked between their legs! Enough crumbs falling off this pile of money to let all of us retire!
  • INTREPID377INTREPID377 Posts: 3,730 Captain
    Couldn't RW simply register the ship in the US and then be in compliance with the Jones Act?
  • KeysbearKeysbear Posts: 132 Deckhand
    A few misconceptions here. One is that the homes are all "million dollar homes", they are not. Many sold and are available in the $200,000 - $400,000 range, the same as Bimini Sands and other newer construction. I moved to Miami in the early 80's and have spent the last 35 years going back and forth between the Bahamas and South Florida, so I am not unaware of projects started and failing here, usually due to the government more than the project. And sorry to disappoint, but the puking is during three major holidays a year, and that goes on from one end of the island to the other, often by the guests at the hotels on the southern end of North Bimini. These are the kinds of statements that show me that most of the anti posters spend very little time on the island.
    As to your eco-tourism, the hero often brought up here, Guy Harvey, abandoned ship as soon as the money got tight at Big Game, so please don't bring him up as an enviro guy, he is as money hungry as the rest. Eco doesn't work, the locals could care less about developing anything on their own, and so far this project has brought cash and jobs. That is my point entirely.

    Evidently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I never mentioned Guy Harvey. I know why he left, and it had to do with issues with his relationship with BGC. I never held him out as an example of "Eco" tourism. My comments about a $1M home was meant to illustrate the point that I know several individuals who are not happy that their dream home in paradise is overrun with drunk party people from Miami, when the boat runs. That was more often that 3 weekends a year. We have seen the ads and the people that Genting lured to the islands with promises of; free drinks, gambling, Latin DJ's, and a 18 yo drinking age. There were lots of drunk and over served patrons disembarking off the cruise ships, and if you spent $200K, $300K, or $1M, to live your dream in a resort community, the Red Boat was a new wrinkle, and many residents were not happy.

    My definition of ECO tourism is an appeal to people who want to swim, snorkel, fish, SUP, etc., in pristine waters where there is an emphasis on protecting the environment, the water quality and sustainability. Think Belize, which has world class fishing and lots more.
    Smaller hotels, more snorkeling, diving and charter fishing options would bring more tourists to Bimini. Rebuilding the Compleat Angler, and some of the legendary places from the 80's would bring a lot of people back. Look at the success BGC is starting to have-we need more of that. Bimini does not need a casino, nor large developments that bulldoze the mangroves and destroy the reefs. That type of development will really hurt Bimini, and in the end I believe it will fail., I believe that the economic future of Bimini is tied to tourism, but not Genting's plan.

    I have spent a lot of time there, and I believe if there was a plan and Nassau would get out of the way, that a much more robust future for the population can be secured. This could be done by enhancing what they have, promoting it, and giving the tourists who come there for what Bimini is (not what Genting's vision for Bimini is) a great experience, value, and a relaxed care free vacation.

    There is NO way you are going to bring 500,000 tourists a year there. The lack of water, sanitation, and facilities will cause chaos. this is just my opinion, but I believe that Bimini's future is tied to fishing, diving, beautiful beaches, and the quaint laid back atmosphere that brought us all there in the first place.
  • Couldn't RW simply register the ship in the US and then be in compliance with the Jones Act?

    RW's simply solution is to put a US crew on board. That is how the other night cruises did it.
  • Bimini DreamBimini Dream Posts: 407 Deckhand
    Ron what is the cost difference of using a US crew and does that mean everyone crew and staff? Like you mention the solution sounds simple enough so whys RW putting up the big fuss.
    A Part Of Paradise
    http://onetoughkitty.com
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 6,203 Admiral
    RW's simply solution is to put a US crew on board. That is how the other night cruises did it.

    correct me if i am wrong but the jones act also requires the ship to be made in America, as well as owned by a american and crewed with U.S. citizens or permanent residents and flagged under the U.S.
  • SapingasKangasSapingasKangas Posts: 279 Officer
    Keysbear wrote: »
    I wish the people of Bimini nothing but the best. I have traveled there and fished there since the early 80's. I have seen it at its best, and in the last few years, it's worst. I completely understand the economic needs of the citizens of Bimini, and I know they are not being met. The population of Bimini is struggling. That being said, it is my opinion that this Resorts World/Bimini Bay idea is a dumb one. The island is too small and lacks the fresh water, sanitation facilities, and infra-structure to support the "promised" 500,000 visitors a year. The attractiveness and value of the homes that once were Bimini Bay, are severely diminished by the RW development. Nothing like a $1M home on a tropical island , where the sight of drunk 20 something's puking in the common areas is all too common.

    The dredging, filling, and construction will inevitably harm the water and the marine environment that makes Bimini so desirable in the first place. The 1500 residents of Bimini would be much better served by having a voice in the development and direction of their home island, rather than being sold a bunch of BS by Genting and the government in Nassau, that failed to even involve Bimini in their decision to let this development proceed in the first place. When RW collapses, my fear is that the island will be in worse shape than before. A profitable and growing business model centered around recreational fishing, diving, water sports and pristine laid back beaches could be developed if the government of the Bahamas could see past the tips of their greedy outstretched hands.

    Smaller rental and hotel developments, a real charter boat fleet, more eco-friendly tourism, all these could be developed and made profitable if there was a plan and vision for Bimini. Right now I see no such plan. I do know that RW will fail and collapse within two years. There is no demand for another casino in the Bahamas, and the tourists that will come on the boat will come once or twice and then move on. They are not the type of tourists that will appreciate the beauty and uniqueness of the island, and that is a shame.

    Typical pompous, arrogant, narrow-minded, we americans know what's best for you attitude that plays so well in the eyes of foreigners.
  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 4,283 Captain
    Typical pompous, arrogant, narrow-minded, we americans know what's best for you attitude that plays so well in the eyes of foreigners.

    Yeah, everybody know the Malaysians greasing the palms of the Bahamian government know whats best for Bimini
  • KeysbearKeysbear Posts: 132 Deckhand
    Typical pompous, arrogant, narrow-minded, we americans know what's best for you attitude that plays so well in the eyes of foreigners.

    Nice personal attack. Why are you so belligerent in your comments? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong.
    Tell me where I am wrong. How are the people of Bimini doing now that the boat is only running on weekends-if the weather is acceptable. If you know anything about this situation, you know that this project began in Nassau. The people of Bimini were not consulted prior to many of the agreements being reached. There is plenty of evidence that a lot of damage is going to be done to a very fragile marine habitant, and that the fishing and diving businesses are threatened because of it.

    I want the people of Bimini to thrive and prosper. However, I state again that they will need businesses and an industry that is sustainable. The boat was running almost empty even before the winter weather rolled in. I do not believe that this will succeed, and that Bimini will be left worse off than before. That is my opinion, and I can assure you that I could not care less what you say about my posts. So fire away-****.
  • SapingasKangasSapingasKangas Posts: 279 Officer
    Keysbear wrote: »
    Nice personal attack. Why are you so belligerent in your comments? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong.
    Tell me where I am wrong. How are the people of Bimini doing now that the boat is only running on weekends-if the weather is acceptable. If you know anything about this situation, you know that this project began in Nassau. The people of Bimini were not consulted prior to many of the agreements being reached. There is plenty of evidence that a lot of damage is going to be done to a very fragile marine habitant, and that the fishing and diving businesses are threatened because of it.

    I want the people of Bimini to thrive and prosper. However, I state again that they will need businesses and an industry that is sustainable. The boat was running almost empty even before the winter weather rolled in. I do not believe that this will succeed, and that Bimini will be left worse off than before. That is my opinion, and I can assure you that I could not care less what you say about my posts. So fire away-****.
    Cute PooBear, you complain about a personal attack yet call me ****; nice personal attack. Fishermen and divers have been going to Bimini for decades upon decades and I don't see fingerprints of wealth left behind. The only true influx of monies was via the drug trade and nobody wants that again. So let a sovereign country do as it please and eventually things will sort themselves out, they always do.
    BTW, flights leaving to Belize daily.
    Regards,
    ****
  • alacrityalacrity Posts: 2,662 Captain
    Ron what is the cost difference of using a US crew and does that mean everyone crew and staff? Like you mention the solution sounds simple enough so whys RW putting up the big fuss.

    at least 2 problems. first, in the short term, RWB has entered into hundreds of one year employment agreements with its non-US crew that it cannot break (they begin to expire in 2014) because it would result in paying relatively large indemnities to the terminated employee and they would then be in a position of having to pay the new US crew while also paying the recently terminated non US crew (paying twice for the same labor services). Second, accordingly to its complaint v CBP, it will be cost prohibitive to use a US crew because the labor cost to operate the vessel is significantly higher.

    i dont think RWB can re-flag the vessel in the US.


  • KeysbearKeysbear Posts: 132 Deckhand
    Cute PooBear, you complain about a personal attack yet call me ****; nice personal attack. Fishermen and divers have been going to Bimini for decades upon decades and I don't see fingerprints of wealth left behind. The only true influx of monies was via the drug trade and nobody wants that again. So let a sovereign country do as it please and eventually things will sort themselves out, they always do.
    BTW, flights leaving to Belize daily.
    Regards,
    ****

    My calling you a **** was not a personal attack, only a statement of the obvious. Despite your protestations to the contrary, the number of fisherman and divers going to Bimini has decreased significantly in the past decade, or even longer. I stated my opinion about what could work to actually create a vibrant and sustainable economy for Bimini. you disagree, so be it. if you think that the decisions being made about development will occur in Bimini are being made by the residents of the island, I believe you are naïve. Nassau reached an agreement with Genting, and the "fun" began. Many of us have different ideas about what could be best for Bimini in the long run, that does not make us"pompous, arrogant, or narrow-minded."
  • Blue ZoneBlue Zone Posts: 414 Officer
    alacrity wrote: »
    at least 2 problems. first, in the short term, RWB has entered into hundreds of one year employment agreements with its non-US crew that it cannot break (they begin to expire in 2014) because it would result in paying relatively large indemnities to the terminated employee and they would then be in a position of having to pay the new US crew while also paying the recently terminated non US crew (paying twice for the same labor services). Second, accordingly to its complaint v CBP, it will be cost prohibitive to use a US crew because the labor cost to operate the vessel is significantly higher.

    i dont think RWB can re-flag the vessel in the US.

    No, they cannot re-flag on two counts. Big Red is foreign-built and it is foreign-owned. For that reason alone, technically Big Red cannot move from US port to US port without an intermediate call in a foreign port; they are in violation of the Jones Act as well as the main immigration issue which you pointed out. With RW being an owner of Norwegian Cruise Lines, it is astonishing to learn of their lack of awareness of US shipping law.

    In any event, it is simply hard to believe that the night cruises are the keystone of their Bimini investment when it seems the cruises were only a weather-related, lame afterthought.
  • lbudlbud Posts: 1,014 Officer
    Keysbear wrote: »
    My calling you a **** was not a personal attack, only a statement of the obvious. Despite your protestations to the contrary, the number of fisherman and divers going to Bimini has decreased significantly in the past decade, or even longer. I stated my opinion about what could work to actually create a vibrant and sustainable economy for Bimini. you disagree, so be it. if you think that the decisions being made about development will occur in Bimini are being made by the residents of the island, I believe you are naïve. Nassau reached an agreement with Genting, and the "fun" began. Many of us have different ideas about what could be best for Bimini in the long run, that does not make us"pompous, arrogant, or narrow-minded."

    BRAVO!!
    Live while You're breathing! It's Your only chance.....:grin
  • To answer to questions as I understand the issue:

    1. US crew can allow the limited "cruise to nowhere" But above the costs have been described.

    2. You cannot circumvent the Jones act issues by "flagging" the vessel in the US. Jones act mostly protects vessels originally built in the US.

    Alacrity said it and he knows what he is talking about, the immigration aspect is biting RW. RW is not only trying to do the sail to nowhere, they are also trying to not require any customs operation and embarkation or disembarkation.

    They have serious commitments to they will pay to run if this doesn't work. They have commitments long term with Dade County, they are paying $1.5 million for the redesign of the terminal and they will pay up to $11 million for the terminal construction with credits against future sailings and port fees. They also have a cancellation penalty.

    Interesting is that they are still advertising cruises to nowhere, like the New Years Eve party cruise.

    It will be fun to watch this group and see the other mistakes they will make with their Miami development.
  • Oh, Hats off to Keysbear! Don't let the haters drive you crazy.....

    You have a very good understanding of Bimini and how it got where it is today.
  • SapingasKangasSapingasKangas Posts: 279 Officer
    lbud wrote: »
    BRAVO!!

    Adorable, PooPooBear has his own little cheerleader complete with pom-poms.
  • Adorable, PooPooBear has his own little cheerleader complete with pom-poms.

    Quite intelligent post there Sap!
  • lbudlbud Posts: 1,014 Officer
    Is this gay speak??
    Adorable, PooPooBear has his own little cheerleader complete with pom-poms.
    Live while You're breathing! It's Your only chance.....:grin
  • SapingasKangasSapingasKangas Posts: 279 Officer
    lbud wrote: »
    Is this gay speak??

    Careful there **** Dynasty, you don't want to offend anyone. It's more like baby speak, the way a father encourages a pup.
  • lbudlbud Posts: 1,014 Officer
    I guessed it right!!
    Live while You're breathing! It's Your only chance.....:grin
  • SapingasKangasSapingasKangas Posts: 279 Officer
    lbud wrote: »
    I guessed it right!!

    Incorrigible, sounds like you may be able to talk yourself into flight off a cliff. Pato.
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