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U.S. Healthcare - Dead Last Again

BrewheddBrewhedd Posts: 1,096 Officer
(Reuters) - Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system, according to a report released on Wednesday.

The United States ranked last when compared to six other countries -- Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand, the Commonwealth Fund report found.

In 2007, health spending was $7,290 per person in the United States, more than double that of any other country in the survey.

Australians spent $3,357, Canadians $3,895, Germans $3,588, the Netherlands $3,837 and Britons spent $2,992 per capita on health in 2007. New Zealand spent the least at $2,454.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/23/us-usa-healthcare-last-idUSTRE65M0SU20100623

According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, health care costs accounted for just 9.5% of all personal consumption back in 1980. Today they account for approximately 16.3%.

Over the past decade, health insurance premiums have risen three times faster than wages have in the United States.

Even as the rest of the country struggled with a deep recession, U.S. health insurance companies increased their profits by 56 percent during 2009 alone.

Since 2003, health insurance companies have shelled out more than $42 million in state-level campaign contributions.

According to the CDC, approximately three quarters of a million people a year are rushed to emergency rooms in the United States because of adverse reactions to pharmaceutical drugs.

According to the CIA World Factbook, the United States had a higher infant mortality rate than 45 other nations in 2009.

It is estimated that hospitals overcharge Americans by about 10 billion dollars every single year.
In fact, one trained medical billing advocate says that over 90 percent of all the medical bills that she has audited contain "gross overcharges".

Prescription drugs cost about 50% more in the United States than they do in other countries.

According to a report by Health Care for America Now, America's five biggest for-profit health insurance companies ended 2009 with a combined profit of $12.2 billion.
Corruption is the enemy. Lobbyists and the FED have ruined the country.
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Replies

  • rain dograin dog Posts: 3,245 Captain
    big pharmacy and big insurance .. take them out of the picture you fix a lot of the problems.
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 29,369 AG
    rain dog wrote: »
    big pharmacy and big insurance .. take them out of the picture you fix a lot of the problems.

    But dude, that's capitalism at work. Dead last again.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    Americans are generally less healthier than citizens of Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand. We are generally less fit, have more obesity, walk less, and eat more crap.
  • SWFL_F1sh0nSWFL_F1sh0n Posts: 17,248 Officer
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    Americans are generally less healthier than citizens of Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand. We are generally less fit, have more obesity, walk less, and eat more crap.

    Let's see ham is in the oven, prime rib roast is getting ready to go into the oven along with baked potatoes, potatoes au gratin, etc . .
  • rain dograin dog Posts: 3,245 Captain
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    But dude, that's capitalism at work. Dead last again.

    obamacare will make big insurance and big pharmacy even bigger :shrug
  • SWFL_F1sh0nSWFL_F1sh0n Posts: 17,248 Officer
    rain dog wrote: »
    obamacare will make big insurance and big pharmacy even bigger :shrug

    Yup, the dem's caved on universal and the single payer system waaayyyyy to easy.
  • kahmadkahmad Posts: 235 Officer
    rain dog wrote: »
    obamacare will make big insurance and big pharmacy even bigger :shrug

    This isn't true. Please provide evidence.
  • SWFL_F1sh0nSWFL_F1sh0n Posts: 17,248 Officer
    kahmad wrote: »
    This isn't true. Please provide evidence.

    ACA as I understand it is giving Insurance companies a LOT more customers, and as such a LOT more revenue and more claims to deny.
  • rain dograin dog Posts: 3,245 Captain
    kahmad wrote: »
    This isn't true. Please provide evidence.

    think about it: more people will be required to have insurance coverage .. more insurance will pay for medicine. does not take a genious to see what the results will be. why would this not be true?
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 22,130 AG
    US Laws drive our health care up over that of other countries by forced subsidization through a pharma protection racket.. We also live less healthy lifestyles.

    The infant mortality number is bogus
  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    If Healthcare were a true 'Free Market', outcomes would be better & costs would be much cheaper... The current plan will simply continue to drive 'costs' higher & 'outcomes' lower...
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 22,130 AG
    If Healthcare were a true 'Free Market', outcomes would be better & costs would be much cheaper... The current plan will simply continue to drive 'costs' higher & 'outcomes' lower...

    The goal is to make everyone equally miserable... except for the ruling class.
  • kahmadkahmad Posts: 235 Officer
    Why do you people talk when you clearly don't understand the law?

    Yes, more people will be insured. This doesn't mean more revenue, especially when you consider the 80:20 rule. And obamacare also implements systems that makes sure insurance companies can't deny claims or cancel your insurance without real reasons. Obamacare creates markets to purchase health insurance thereby increasing competition. Obamacare removes arbitrary limits on on benefits. Obamacare creates a rate review system where insurance companies can't arbitrarily jack up rates.

    Whichever way you look at it, Obamacare reigns in insurance companies like never before.

    And I don't see how more people being insured means "bigger" pharma companies. "More insurance will pay for medicine" - so what? Insurance companies will pay for drugs that people were previously paying for out of pocket. There's very few exceptions to this. The majority of drugs used today are generics anyways.


    It seems to me that the mistaken image most people have of Obamacare is that it simply requires everyone to have insurance. Yeah, that's part of it, but there's so much more. Educate yourself before you talk.
  • kahmadkahmad Posts: 235 Officer
    If Healthcare were a true 'Free Market', outcomes would be better & costs would be much cheaper... The current plan will simply continue to drive 'costs' higher & 'outcomes' lower...

    Back this claim up.

    This is just not true and I've already explained why in other posts in other threads.
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,447 Admiral
    kahmad wrote: »
    Why do you people talk when you clearly don't understand the law?

    Obamacare creates a rate review system where insurance companies can't arbitrarily jack up rates.

    Whichever way you look at it, Obamacare reigns in insurance companies like never before.

    Obamacare forces insurance companies to jack up rates to the detriment of earners and the economy.

    The second sentence is wholly correct, however, you would have an easier time describing the benefits of a single payer system than the ACA.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    kahmad wrote: »
    This isn't true. Please provide evidence.

    By adding 48 million people that are currently not insured how can they not get bigger? :huh
  • kahmadkahmad Posts: 235 Officer
    Conchy Cracker: Because they are making less money off those people.

    Newberry Jeff: Obamacare doesn't force anything. The whole idea that Obamacare is going to drastically increase rates is false and I've already argued this point many times. And don't give me some statistics about how rates have gone up since its implementation. Talk to me when it's all said and done - after the public insurance exchanges are set up and all the rules go in effect.

    Sure insuring more sick people may raise rates. Considering all the other things Obamacare does to control insurance rates, the net increase will be insignificant compared to the amount of good it does.

    And yes, I would have an easier time describing the benefits of a single payer system. I would love a single, non profit insurance provider. It really is a shame that that option was quickly thrown out the window by lawmakers who were thoroughly bought and paid for.
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,447 Admiral
    kahmad wrote: »
    Conchy Cracker: Because they are making less money off those people.

    Newberry Jeff: Obamacare doesn't force anything. The whole idea that Obamacare is going to drastically increase rates is false and I've already argued this point many times. And don't give me some statistics about how rates have gone up since its implementation. Talk to me when it's all said and done - after the public insurance exchanges are set up and all the rules go in effect.

    Sure insuring more sick people may raise rates. Considering all the other things Obamacare does to control insurance rates, the net increase will be insignificant compared to the amount of good it does.

    And yes, I would have an easier time describing the benefits of a single payer system. I would love a single, non profit insurance provider. It really is a shame that that option was quickly thrown out the window by lawmakers who were thoroughly bought and paid for.

    Your idea that insurance rates aren't going to increase dramatically is totally at odds with the statements of the people who wrote Obamacare.
    When the exchanges get up and running? Only sick people will buy insurance - the community rate death spiral.
    Don't forget about the $trillions$ it will add to the deficit.
  • kahmadkahmad Posts: 235 Officer
    Your idea that insurance rates aren't going to increase dramatically is totally at odds with the statements of the people who wrote Obamacare.
    When the exchanges get up and running? Only sick people will buy insurance - the community rate death spiral.
    Don't forget about the $trillions$ it will add to the deficit.

    And yet again I'm going to ask you to make a real argument that doesn't rely on mistaken and misinterpreted sound bites.

    Huh? Only sick people? Everyone is required to buy insurance, or pay a fine. The smart money is going to buy insurance.

    Trillions added to deficit? What are you talking about? The ACA is REDUCING the deficit - by a lot.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/04/09/official-sources-agree-affordable-care-act-reduces-deficit
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,447 Admiral
    kahmad wrote: »
    And yet again I'm going to ask you to make a real argument that doesn't rely on mistaken and misinterpreted sound bites.

    Huh? Only sick people? Everyone is required to buy insurance, or pay a fine. The smart money is going to buy insurance.

    Trillions added to deficit? What are you talking about? The ACA is REDUCING the deficit - by a lot.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/04/09/official-sources-agree-affordable-care-act-reduces-deficit

    "Jeanne Lambrew is Deputy Assistant to the President for Health Policy" <---- that's rich.
    I bet you believed the Medicare cost estimates also.
    Did you also believe the Iraq war was going to be paid for by oil profits?
  • kahmadkahmad Posts: 235 Officer
    Yeah he works for the white house. He backs everything he says up with claims from congressional offices. And the claims about the medicare cost estimates are not legit either. See the same link.

    It really is a shame that you would rather remain in biased ignorance than accept facts, but par for the course as far as republicans are concerned.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 22,130 AG
    kahmad wrote: »
    Why do you people talk when you clearly don't understand the law?

    It doesn't take a genius to understandvthat price controls don't work. Quote the intent of the law all you want and ignorantly ignore the coming unintended consequences of governmental attempts at price controls...
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,447 Admiral
    kahmad wrote: »
    Yeah he works for the white house. He backs everything he says up with claims from congressional offices. And the claims about the medicare cost estimates are not legit either. See the same link.

    It really is a shame that you would rather remain in biased ignorance than accept facts, but par for the course as far as republicans are concerned.

    Sure, the .gov is going to cover 100% of Medicaid expansion (an estimated 17 million new enrollees) for the first 3 years without increasing the deficit?

    You're going to have to branch out for other sources to fully understand the impact of Obamacare. The gangster's newsletter is pure propaganda.
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    all I can say is I am glad the Republicans are no longer running the whole show

    sure they killed single payer. For the Democrats to pass any kind of health care reform they had to compromise

    even now republican filibusters and obstructionist practices are putting a monkey wrench in democrats plans

    but with the republican party in disarray and their policies in such disfavor my hope is after the next congressional election they will be completely irrelevant and we can get on with fixing this country.
  • rain dograin dog Posts: 3,245 Captain
    rickc wrote: »
    we can get on with fixing this country

    that would imply that the current bunch in washington is going to lead us to the promised land ?? bread and circuses .. that's all they are.
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 29,369 AG
    Sure, the .gov is going to cover 100% of Medicaid expansion (an estimated 17 million new enrollees) for the first 3 years without increasing the deficit?

    You're going to have to branch out for other sources to fully understand the impact of Obamacare. The gangster's newsletter is pure propaganda.

    Do you think the uninsured are not getting treated already? IN ERs? The most expensive treatment available and who pays for that?
    Vote for the other candidate
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,447 Admiral
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    Do you think the uninsured are not getting treated already? IN ERs? The most expensive treatment available and who pays for that?

    Believe me, I know exactly how expensive ER treatment is, universal health care is more expensive.
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 29,369 AG
    Believe me, I know exactly how expensive ER treatment is, universal health care is more expensive.

    I don't believe you.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • kahmadkahmad Posts: 235 Officer
    It doesn't take a genius to understandvthat price controls don't work. Quote the intent of the law all you want and ignorantly ignore the coming unintended consequences of governmental attempts at price controls...

    Ok...now in order to make what we call an "argument" the next step would be proving that obamacare is in fact "price control." Then you would cite examples where similar "price controls" have failed. Finally you would prove that this situation is similar to those examples.

    You can't just state a completely arbitrary premise and back it up with some bull rhetoric like "it doesn't take a genius to know...." That's not arguing. That's what we call talking out of your ***, and thus far it's the only kind of talking I've seen you do.
  • kahmadkahmad Posts: 235 Officer
    Sure, the .gov is going to cover 100% of Medicaid expansion (an estimated 17 million new enrollees) for the first 3 years without increasing the deficit?

    You're going to have to branch out for other sources to fully understand the impact of Obamacare. The gangster's newsletter is pure propaganda.


    If you don't want to believe the numbers that every involved branch of our government is giving you, that's fine. Just know that by denying facts you have left the realm of intelligent discussion and are now entering the realm of conspiracy theories.

    And how about instead of just calling Obama, the congressional committees and everyone else involved liars, you show some evidence to prove your point?

    You'll probably have to look up the definition of evidence because it seems to be such a alien concept to you guys, but don't worry; despite what you were raised to believe, opening a book won't turn you into a communist homosexual.
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