Sector Separation leader sticks foot in mouth - AGAIN

Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
I'm beginning to wonder if Jarvis truly enjoys the taste of his shoe leather - the guy continually sticks his foot in his mouth with blatant untruths designed to further his profit-grab agenda.

The private rec data AP did in fact vote to recommend new types of data collection to the Gulf Council - directly contradicting Jarvis' rant.

He is also trying to steal our fish - "For example the charter for hire / private rec split has been around 62%-38% for Red Snapper and Amberjack..."

According to the Sector Separation scoping document however, the CFH landings % of red snapper was 19% - on one hand they say one thing, then on the other say the exact opposite, depending on what is most beneficial to say at the time...there is absolutely no need to "separate" and "segregate" the Gulf recreational fishermen in order to provide true accountability. The ONLY reason they want sector separation is to garner ownership of our Public Trust Resource.

Maybe his shoe laces got in the way of him being able to see the keyboard.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: February 26, 2013, 6:03:45 PM CST
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: 27 days really? what next? more lost access in 2014? YEP!
Vintage Oct 2008, we told fishermen then that under the status quo recreational management system that we were going to lose and lose and lose fishing access in a rebuilding fishery. Even though the science and data and NMFS has given us back 1.6 million pounds of red snapper since in the last three years we have lost 66% of our access since 2005.The only way to stop this train wreck is to get off the train. I wish would could just get this train to change direction and stay on board but that is not going to happen. For the second time in less than a year the recreational data collection AP voted NOT TO RECOMEND ANY NEW TYPE OF DATA COLLECTION FOR RECREATIONAL PRIVATE BOAT ANGLERS. Today at about 1pm they decided not to have any type of accountability like a TAG, STAMP or PERMIT that would result in a loss of open access.Even if that leads to a closure they would rather have a closure than be accountable for their harvest, give and produce fishery dependent data , and have to commit to paying for a permit that would move the recreational sector into a new FMP. Until the recreational sector has a plan that can identify who is fishing, what they caught when they went, and stop fishing when the annual allocations is harvested the end results will be less fishing year after year. South Atlantic here we come, jump before its too late.

Oct 2008 What is sector separation?

Allocations:

1) We are asking the NMFS and gulf council to separate the recreational fishing sector into 2 distinct and different sectors 1) A private recreational sector and 2) A Charter for Hire sector

2) The Charter for Hire sector will have 2 distinct sub sectors, the charter boat sector and head boat sector. The allocation for these 2 sub sectors has been well documented ,reflect the total landings history and have been constant for years.

3) All allocations will be determined by historical landing history of each user group that has been used and recognized by NMFS management for the last 20 yrs.1986- 2006 ( years of corrected data and all states had compatible regulations ) These percentages have remained quite constant for the time period .

4) We have allowed for the discussion that a 50-50 charter for hire and private rec split be considered as a possibility for all species that have a established allocation for rec and commercial fisheries. IE... Red Snapper,Red and Gag Groupers,Amberjacks,Gray trigger fish. To be totally fair and gives a little to gain a little species by species

5) For example the charter for hire / private rec split has been around 62%-38% for Red Snapper and Amberjack, about 58%-42% for trigger fish and 28%-72% for grouper So to be fair we could look at giving up some snapper and amberjack to get some more grouper for the recreational anglers who go on charter /head boats. (Note these are not the final corrected MRFSS figures but are within a few % points) This helps the charter fishermen get a few more grouper gulf wide and also helps the private recreational sector get a few more snapper and Amberjacks to catch gulf wide. This could be a fair trade and a good political compromise in the end.. Or we can let the chips fall were they may and rely only on the landing histories.

Accountability measures: How we catch our fish

1) This only applies to charter boats and head boats for the private recreational fishermen will have their own fishing seasons and accountability measures. Any level of over fishing and the arcane data collection system now used would not have such a huge negative effect on the CFH fleet.

2) All charter boats and head boats will fish their respective allocations based on what each sub-group determines is best for them. This will be done at the council and local levels by using this list as a starting point to make a options paper to develop a industry wide plan. The charter boat sub sector and head boat sub sector each have unique issues that need to address the differences and in some cases the similarities of each group. What will work for charter boats may not work for a head boats, that is why we feel the need for the sub sector.

3) Under sector separation and a real time at sea data collection system we will finally be able to identify the participants and levels of effort. No more extrapolations of effort based on number of permits. The fishermen that have fished and what they caught will only be counted for each day of fishing.That will be so important to develop a system of accountability to get us more days back on the water.This charter for hire data collection system will reduce the existing buffers that steal millions of pounds of fish from us annually and lead us to a reward of more fish to catch for all user groups by moving into sector separation,and being accountable for what we catch

4) We will have options that are not possible under status quo.We can keep the derby format but unlike now can stop over fishing and penalties of lost days the next year We will no longer lose fishing days due to over fishing by the other sectors,thus giving us constant seasons or longer seasons instead of constant reductions which has been the trend under status quo. We can have in season adjustments to bag limits,or split seasons in case of natural or man made disasters.We can explore a days a sea system, fish tags or other ways to fish when we have trips, or different seasons due to geographic's and not just because the season is open.

Data collection:
1) The need for a new data collection system has already been recognized and as a result of council action.We will hope have I-Snapper electronic logs books with mandatory reporting requirements very soon.. But to maximize the positive impact of the reporting system and to benefit from the data collection burden we are about to bear, the charter and head boat fleet must have it's own sector and system that helps us fish our own allocation
.
2) The lack of verifiable, timely and accurate fishery dependent data has been the main failure in management of recreational fisheries. As recognized by the NRC (National Research Center) and the NMFS the charter for hire industry has the professional ability and the need for better data collection to account for what they catch and improve the management of all stocks of fish. We can operate a system of data collection that will lead to more days in the gulf to maximize the industries ability to stay profitable.

3) I-Snapper electronic log book reporting will change the recreational fishery dependent data It will move our industry out of a fatally flawed survey system that is 30 years old and can not meet any management plan requirements to stop over fishing. It will give the CFH sector 21st century real time data that provides the NMFS with accurate,verifiable and enforceable data needed to mange all stocks of fish.

4) I-Snapper electronic log books will produce harvest and by-catch data that will reduce the huge buffers of uncertainty, stop over fishing of ACL's, Improve the accuracies of stock assessments And build confidence in professional fishermen that the management of these fisheries is more accurate.

Replies

  • Ol MuckyOl Mucky Posts: 5,525 Admiral
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    4) We have allowed for the discussion that a 50-50 charter for hire and private rec split be considered as a possibility for all species that have a established allocation for rec and commercial fisheries. IE... Red Snapper,Red and Gag Groupers,Amberjacks,Gray trigger fish. To be totally fair and gives a little to gain a little species by species

    5) For example the charter for hire / private rec split has been around 62%-38% for Red Snapper and Amberjack, about 58%-42% for trigger fish and 28%-72% for grouper So to be fair we could look at giving up some snapper and amberjack to get some more grouper for the recreational anglers who go on charter /head boats. (Note these are not the final corrected MRFSS figures but are within a few % points) This helps the charter fishermen get a few more grouper gulf wide and also helps the private recreational sector get a few more snapper and Amberjacks to catch gulf wide. This could be a fair trade and a good political compromise in the end.. Or we can let the chips fall were they may and rely only on the landing histories.

    .

    AM I reading this correctly??
    If there is a split shouldn't it be something along the lines of 80% rec -20% charter/for hire for all species???
    AND IMHO the charter/for hire should come out of the commercial take anyways. Were talking profit/$$ exchange for a public resource.........that seems to me that its a commercial operation.
    I have a much bigger and more powerful button
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    Ol Mucky wrote: »
    AM I reading this correctly??
    If there is a split shouldn't it be something along the lines of 80% rec -20% charter/for hire for all species???
    AND IMHO the charter/for hire should come out of the commercial take anyways. Were talking profit/$$ exchange for a public resource.........that seems to me that its a commercial operation.

    Gary Jarvis owns good numbers of valuable IFQ shares as a Commerial and CFh dual permitted operator. He also advocates the idea of giving greater quota to the commercial sector, particularry the IFQ owners. He additionally wants to be able to sale back to the recreational side the right to harvest those same fish "Owned" under the commercial IFQ scam.

    He certainly represents the minority of CFH Captains. Charter boats are purely Recreational nowdays, with the sale of fish caught on a charter boat, even if dual permitted, being forbidden with most fish. The seasons, bag limits, size, are all the same as the private rec. The client is not paying for fish, but the transportation out to fish. Its the clients fish (unless they don't want them, again thats their choice), and the fish is for personal consumption, not commercial sale.

    The "Historic" numbers used to grandfather in quota's to sectors and groups is a problem, since it fails to consider current trends and activities, economic impacts, and other variables that change over time. In the GOM, their are only some 1,300 charter boats, and while they certainly fish more often than private rec's, the shear number of private boats and anglers is hard to compare to. It will require something the NMFS is trying to avoid to determine a true representative number between private and CFH, and thats accurate numbers. Of coarse this implies that the numbers are needed to seperate the sectors, which is something This Charter Captain and Most others do not want.
  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 10,647 AG
    Just got this e mail





    Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council Schedules Scoping Workshops to Discuss For-Hire Red Snapper Days-at-Sea Pilot Program



    The Gulf Council has scheduled scoping workshops around the Gulf of Mexico to get public input on a proposed amendment that examines a days-at-sea pilot program for the red snapper for-hire fishery. Scoping workshops are the first and best opportunity for you to make suggestions or raise issues and concerns before the Council begins developing an amendment.



    Issues to be discussed include, but are not limited to, the purpose and need for this amendment and the potential management actions that may be considered. Management actions range from the selection of program participants to the establishment of effort and catch validation methods and criteria for program evaluation.



    Eight scoping workshops are scheduled around the Gulf. All workshops begin at 6 pm and conclude at the end of public comment, but no later than 9 pm. The workshop schedule is as follows:



    March 25, 2013

    Courtyard Marriott

    1600 E. Beach Boulevard

    Gulfport, MS 39501


    April 1, 2013

    Hilton Galveston Island

    5400 Seawall Boulevard

    Galveston Island, TX 77551


    March 26, 2013

    Fairfield Inn & Suites

    3111 Loop Road

    Orange Beach, AL 36561



    March 27, 2013

    Destin Community Center

    101 Stahlman Avenue

    Destin, FL 32541



    Courtyard Marriott

    3250 US 41 North

    Naples, FL 34103


    April 2, 2013

    Hilton St. Petersburg Carillon Park

    950 Lake Carillon Drive

    St. Petersburg, FL 33716



    Hilton Garden Inn

    6717 S. Padre Island Drive

    Corpus Christi, TX 78412


    April 3, 2013

    Crowne Plaza New Orleans

    2829 Williams Boulevard

    Kenner, LA 70062




    Copies of the scoping document and other related materials will be available two weeks prior to the first scoping meeting and can be obtained by calling 813-348-1630 or can be downloaded from the Council's website at http://www.gulfcouncil.org/fishery_management_plans/scoping-thru-implementation.php.


    These meetings are physically accessible to people with disabilities. Requests for sign language interpretation or other auxiliary aids should be directed to Kathy Pereira at least five working days prior to the meeting.


    More back door crap.
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
Sign In or Register to comment.