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Franklin County community outraged over school system $550,000 debt

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  • omegafooomegafoo Posts: 3,127 Captain
    yall need stay out of franklin county biz..cause the more you talk I'm finding you don't know jack ****

    If they don't know jack I don't see why you have a problem having a civilized discussion and presenting the "information" that you seem to know to be correct and contrary to what's being discussed? :shrug
  • max kirklandmax kirkland Posts: 2,127 Officer
    omegafoo wrote: »
    If they don't know jack I don't see why you have a problem having a civilized discussion and presenting the "information" that you seem to know to be correct and contrary to what's being discussed? :shrug


    well tell me about it
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    That's the problem I have with you sometimes, Max. Someone says they're experienced in an area and you break it down by saying they don't know what they're talking about or telling them to "tell you about it." I already did tell you how educational funding works. Now you act the way Richard Pryor used to say his friends would end an argument....by saying "Well ***** it then!" It's okay to admit it when you're mistaken about something.
    :thumbsup
    Proverbs 13:3
  • illinoisfishermanillinoisfisherman Posts: 5,312 Admiral
    Well pay scale is relative to the average income of the area I would guess. If folks are struggling to earn $60 a day, like an oysterman friend in Carrabelle, I guess he would consider an educator making 40K a year "over paid". I was told by a local mayor that the average teachers pay in our HS District 217 is 104K per year. He considers them over paid.

    As luck would have it our 1st installment tax bills were received in the mail last night (55% of last years bill which usually turns out to be about 45% of this years bill). The tax on a $220K assessed townhome is going to be aproximately $3716.27 X 2. About 80% of this amount is for the schools. Can you see why taxpayers are in revolt? Can you see why school budgets wil be the first targets of cuts?
  • omegafooomegafoo Posts: 3,127 Captain
    well tell me about it

    I wrote, modified and deleted my response too many times. Sometimes you just have to know when to not put your thoughts in writing.

    I'll just leave it with FF and ferris...
    That's the problem I have with you sometimes, Max. Someone says they're experienced in an area and you break it down by saying they don't know what they're talking about or telling them to "tell you about it." I already did tell you how educational funding works. Now you act the way Richard Pryor used to say his friends would end an argument....by saying "Well ***** it then!" It's okay to admit it when you're mistaken about something.
    :thumbsup
    ferris1248 wrote: »
    You don't want to listen. You've already told them to shut up.
  • RedhunterRedhunter Posts: 435 Deckhand
    plumbbob wrote: »
    My wifes been a teacher for 25yrs. Everyday it's something. And every week they throw more crap at her. Expect her to do more for less. It's terrible. As far as the money goes it's like IF said. There's less money floating around for the schoolboards to work with. It comes from her pocket.

    My wife is going through the same things. She would retire right now if she could. There is more paperwork than teaching anymore because of the parents who will not back up the teachers and admit their kids are lying to them. No, my Little Johnny wouldn't lie to me.
  • jcbcpajcbcpa Posts: 1,885 Captain
    Working in a system that is finally starting to recover a bit, Franklin county's just a little behind the times. Don't know their situation but, happily, our system is only taking 5 furlough days this year as opposed to 10 for the past 2 years. Federal funding cuts have resulted in over 8 million dollars being held back from our county alone during the past 6 years. It's very possible nobody's hand was in the cookie jar and they tried to muddle through without cutting salaries or positions. Most systems have approximately 80% of their annual budget tied up in salaries. When it comes time to cut, you trim from the smaller areas first, but cannot make up the difference with small cuts.

    We took a 5% pay cut and 10 furlough days for couple of years... We got 5 of the days back this year. Who knows if/when we'll see the pay increase. With both Lora and I in the system, it hit us doubly hard.

    I feel sorry for the Franklin County system and especially for the folks impacted by the cuts that are coming.

    FYI - Most of the items mentioned earlier, i.e. parks and police cars are likely paid for with federal funds set aside for that type of purchase specifically. Most times, funding is earmarked for purchases and cannot be used to pay salaries and/or benefits. It is also possible that it's an entirely different pot of money altogether. Just because you see purchases taking place, it does not mean that the Franklin County BOE could have used any of that money for their purposes.



    Finally, BOE is a seperate entity from the county...they don't share their monies with each other.

    Don't know about where you live but here in South Ga our county property taxes make up for any shortfall from federal funds.
    My property taxes are as follows: State 1%, County 39% School 50% City 10%. The Board of Education here has no problem with assessing more tax to cover any shortfall.
    Our county pays for it's own sheriff cars and the only park that we have is our local recreation facility that was partially paid for by the county, city and splost funds.
    I know teachers are underpaid for what they have to do and most times their hands are tied so that they can't do the job that they were trained to do. I wouldn't do it for any amount of money I don't think.
    With that said though, there are many other area's that wasteful spending takes place. At least here in my county.
    I can't give you a sure-fire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time.
    Herbert Bayard Swope
    US editor & journalist (1882 - 1958)
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    Our BOE increased taxes by 1 mil last year. Millage rate is still 4 or more points from being at maximum allowed by law. That was the first increase in 12 years. Even if they were to top out it wouldn't make up for what has been cut. 1 mil = @ $650k in our county also in south Georgia.
    Proverbs 13:3
  • jcbcpajcbcpa Posts: 1,885 Captain
    Our BOE increased taxes by 1 mil last year. Millage rate is still 4 or more points from being at maximum allowed by law. That was the first increase in 12 years. Even if they were to top out it wouldn't make up for what has been cut. 1 mil = @ $650k in our county also in south Georgia.

    1 mil here is probably different here than in your county. I don't know what our total tax digest is so I can't tell you.
    I'm on your side, I'm just saying that some of the things that MY local Board of Education insists on having are too expensive and they don't enhance learning.
    You certainly know more about what we are talking about than I do since you are directly involved. I just think too much emphasis is placed on having things like outstanding athletic facilities, college campus like facilities and the like. Those things are expensive no matter whether the federal government pays or my county pays. The teachers and administrators should be paid well and they should be given the freedom and the support to teach kids.
    I can't give you a sure-fire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time.
    Herbert Bayard Swope
    US editor & journalist (1882 - 1958)
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    You're my hero! :)

    We are sometimes driven by the wrong things too. Got an athletic booster club that just put a LOAD of money into a weight lifting facility. I have lost 1/3 of my department during the past 7 years. Down from 33 to 22 teachers due to cutbacks. Just now starting to see some recovery. Hope Franklin can get turned around quicker than us.
    Proverbs 13:3
  • illinoisfishermanillinoisfisherman Posts: 5,312 Admiral
    Teacher compensation is the "easiest" target for the pols. Blaming the financial problems on "over paid educators" is an easy excuse to use. The root of all the shortages is usually financial mismanagement - not over paid teachers. Tough decisions have to be made such as increasing class sizes and elimination of some programs in schools. Teacher salaries should be the last thing touched.

    The County has passed a law that financial data must now be included with tax bills for all taxing bodies. In part it reads like this: County: Total debts and liabilities-$6,841,042,088 * Gross operating budget-$2,949,116,327 * Total pension liability - $14, 308,845,949 * Total unfunded pension liability- $6,405,743,833. It goes on to list the debt and liabilities of all the other taxing districts. The fire protection district owes nothing and has -0- liabititie4s. A courageous Mayor pushed through reform in this district 10 or 15 years ago. He was branded a radical and he was voted out of office. The firemen led a campaign to oust him! However his legacy remains - the only taxing body with a balanced budget!

    Like I said blaming teacher salaries is the easy way for pols. Cutting administration expenses in other ways could cost them their jobs.

    It's a new world out there. Pols figured they could count on expanding real estate values and taxes to cover their mistakes and mismanagement. Values have fallen so much they are running out of options as they are being forced into a corner. Taxpayers will no longer accept rising tax bills heaped upon their homes that have declined in value. The "home" is most folks nest egg. Homeowners are being put in a bind and the money they have "saved' in their homes to care for them in the twilight years is disapearing. Tough choices - tough choices.......
  • reel estatereel estate Posts: 1,402 Officer
    "Teacher compensation is the "easiest" target for the pols. Blaming the financial problems on "over paid educators" is an easy excuse to use."

    That line just sounds so fundamentally wrong,and very sadening.....
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach run for office and make educational law! :-)
    Proverbs 13:3
  • illinoisfishermanillinoisfisherman Posts: 5,312 Admiral
    I have an attorney friend whose son, a second year law student, just took 1 yr off law school when he read somewhere that the average starting salary for law school graduates is $35K. Young folks have to think hard about their careers. These are new times and we are in dangerous waters. The pols are running (or ruining) this country. Big corporations are running the pols. The "average Joe" has very little say or representation. TERM LIMITS and accountability are the answers. Recall elections scare the **** out of pols. More recalls and we will get some pols doing what we say not just saying what we want to hear at election time.
  • VitzVitz Posts: 82 Deckhand
    I may get killed for saying it but I, for one, believe most teachers are not underpaid and many may be overpaid. By the way, my mother was a teacher for 35+ years before retiring last fall.

    Here's how I look at it: a teacher only works 9 months of the year plus gets a couple weeks off for Christmas and Spring Break. When you throw in teacher planning days, they really only work about 8 months or 2/3 of the year.

    Now consider, that their work day ends at 2:30 or 3 pm, about 2 hours earlier than the average employee who works eight hours per day and gets off at 5. So, by my math, the average teacher works 3/4 of the daily hours of the average employee and then only 2/3 of the annual days of the average employee. By my math (75% x 66.6%), the average teacher should be compensated at 50% of what the average employee makes. Or, put another way, a teacher making $40,000 per year, when you factor in the hours and days they work, is really making the equivalent of $80,000.

    Does $80,000 sound underpaid, overpaid or about right to you? Let the verbal assault fly.:machinegun
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    Vitz... Teachers are on contract for 10 months, not 8. Teachers at all schools in our system work a MINIMUM 8 hour day and only a few go home after that. Most take work home and put in more time there grading papers, etc. I'd be willing to bet that they're paid a LOT less per hour than a baby sitter. Matter of fact.....let me look up that old email that went around. I will be back. BUT before I leave let me ask you if you'd be to do their job they do for the pay they get? BTW.....Our elementary schools start receiving students at 7:00 a.m. Teachers can leave.CAN leave at 3:30. That's 8.5 as I figure. 20 minute duty free lunch.
    Proverbs 13:3
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    As a public school teacher, every day I observe the continual battle between those who believe in life, liberty, and the protection of property and those who do not. This is my story.



    TUESDAY, AUGUST 28, 2012



    If Teachers Were Paid Minimum Wage to Babysit Students They Would Make $189K/year?

    Some people claim that teachers' are overpaid- they argue that teachers' only work 9 or 10 months a year and basically most teachers simply babysit kids today. And for that they should be paid a minimum wage.

    That's right- people claim that we should pay teachers $7.50 (roughly the minimum wage in most states) an hour and only pay them for the hours they worked (not any of that silly planning time or any time they spend before or after school). That would be $48.75 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan-- that equals 6 1/2 hours).

    So, in summary each parent should pay $48.75 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Teachers only work about 180 days a year, so that works out to $8775 each year in childcare (per kid) to have teachers babysit your children. That's a little high for daycare, but is pretty darn close to what some of us pay for our own kids for childcare.

    But hold on- let's look at this from the teacher's perspective. The average classroom size in America is 23 students. So that means to babysit these students each day the teacher brings in $48.75 x 23 = $1052 a day. If the teacher brings in $1052/day and works 180 days a year, this teacher brings in $189,360.

    The average teacher's salary is about $55,000 though. That's about $134K less than expected.
    Proverbs 13:3
  • VitzVitz Posts: 82 Deckhand
    OK. For sake of argument, I'll take you at your word in the above post. Even if they are on a 10 month contract, teachers still get a couple of weeks at Christmas, Spring Break and several teach planning days during the year. So, it's more like 9 months of actual work. Even if you throw out the daily hours they work, based on what you said in your post, teachers only work 75% of the annual days of the average employee. So, if they make $40,000, it's equivalent to $53,333 for the average employee. Still, pretty fair pay. This doesn't mention the generous benefits that a teacher receives such as their pension.

    I'm not saying that teachers don't work hard or deserve fair pay. It's a worthy and respected profession. But when one chooses to go into the teaching profession, I believe they know that they will get more time off than the average employee and greater benefits. The tradeoff for those benefits has to be that the salary is lower than the average 40-hour per week, 50-week per year employee.
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    Agree to disagree. My final thought is this.....those of us who make a career of it ain't in it for the money anyway.
    Proverbs 13:3
  • illinoisfishermanillinoisfisherman Posts: 5,312 Admiral
    Agree to disagree. My final thought is this.....those of us who make a career of it ain't in it for the money anyway.

    Most teachers that I know feel the same way. It is a profession they choose so that they could help enrich the lives of others not to enrich their pocketbooks. Thank God for these folks.
  • dewyafishdewyafish Posts: 5,025 Admiral
    Coaches, Band Directors, and Vo-Tech teachers work more than most people.
    There's nothing more enjoyable than suprise morning sex...
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Unless you happen to be in jail at the time.
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    dewyafish wrote: »
    Coaches, Band Directors, and Vo-Tech teachers work more than most people.
    So much truth. My AG teachers are with students on average 2 WEEKENDS a month.
    Proverbs 13:3
  • amada8amada8 Posts: 816 Officer
    Can we get back on topic now? Aren't we supposed to be ripping on the administrators instead of the teachers? That sounds like way more fun.
  • dewyafishdewyafish Posts: 5,025 Admiral
    amada8 wrote: »
    Can we get back on topic now? Aren't we supposed to be ripping on the administrators instead of the teachers? That sounds like way more fun.

    Let's get to the insurance people and lawyers too!!!
    Herro, Dave....
    There's nothing more enjoyable than suprise morning sex...
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Unless you happen to be in jail at the time.
  • amada8amada8 Posts: 816 Officer
    Doctors....friggin' doctors make all the REAL money these days!


    can........worms.........opened
  • RedhunterRedhunter Posts: 435 Deckhand
    Vitz wrote: »
    I may get killed for saying it but I, for one, believe most teachers are not underpaid and many may be overpaid. By the way, my mother was a teacher for 35+ years before retiring last fall.

    Here's how I look at it: a teacher only works 9 months of the year plus gets a couple weeks off for Christmas and Spring Break. When you throw in teacher planning days, they really only work about 8 months or 2/3 of the year.

    Now consider, that their work day ends at 2:30 or 3 pm, about 2 hours earlier than the average employee who works eight hours per day and gets off at 5. So, by my math, the average teacher works 3/4 of the daily hours of the average employee and then only 2/3 of the annual days of the average employee. By my math (75% x 66.6%), the average teacher should be compensated at 50% of what the average employee makes. Or, put another way, a teacher making $40,000 per year, when you factor in the hours and days they work, is really making the equivalent of $80,000.

    Does $80,000 sound underpaid, overpaid or about right to you? Let the verbal assault fly.:machinegun

    Vitz,
    You definitely have no clue what teachers go through. My wife is at school at 6:45 AM and getting things ready for the day. Next she has students coming in during this time getting free tutoring. Then the bell rings and she is actually on the clock. Day goes by teaching or meeting that she may be requested to attend due to parent teacher meeting. Next she has a 20 minute lunch which involves watching the kids in the lunchroom at the same time not sitting at a restaurant or in their room in peace and quiet. Back to teaching and then the bell rings. She stays normally till 4 PM and when she does come home she will normally have 2 boxes full of papers that need to be graded. Most evening she will be up till 9 grading papers and then you have parents calling the house asking why Little Johnny's grades are not A's. She generally works one day on the weekend on school papers or requested papers from administration. During the summer, no she is not off. Teachers are at school for 1.5 weeks after your kids leave and are back at school 2 weeks prior to school being back in session. They also have in service which most of the time is scheduled during the summer. There is another 2 weeks.

    Bottom line no they are not overpaid!!!! 20 years of service and making 40K. Starting teachers are making 28K to 32K at best.
  • FamilyfisherFamilyfisher Posts: 2,993 Captain
    Dave....administrators drink coffee and play lots of solitaire right?
    Proverbs 13:3
  • micci_manmicci_man Somewhere in FLPosts: 14,457 AG
    A guy at work says his wife is gone 12 hrs a day and she only has 1rst grade special needs kids. 13 kids. She gets an aid that has to stay with one kid all day and she gets the rest. I wouldn't want to teach, seems they work alot ( and most I know put lots of their own $$$$ in) and don't get much.
    Common Sense can't be bought, taught or gifted, yet it is one of the few things in life that is free, and most refuse to even attempt to possess it. - Miguel Cervantes
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