Has America followed other great governments?

irishff727irishff727 Posts: 948 Officer
I like to consider myself a history fan, and it appears to me that the US has taken the path of other powerful nations in the past, Rome, Japan even going as far back as ghangis khan. It seems that whenever a "group" obtains to much power, grows to big or tries to extend it self to far they colapse. Now I could be looking at this from the wrong angle completely but it seems to be a trend in history. Rome grew so big that it destroyed it self, when they enpowered one man to rule and control and he never gave power back to the people, even the Us was apart of this when we sought freedom from the english and the "Church". The morales and beliefs that our founding fathers had are long gone and we look at what once believed to be a very stable and great nation seems to be falling apart, people scream the gov has to much control, big brother. again I will admit that my view point could be wrong. but it is just what i see.

So has america become the next rome? are we going to cause our own demise by extending ourselves so much that there is no coming back? Or is this just the way that things are, living in fear of a economic collapse? Does it really matter anymore if we are dems or repubs? libs or conserv? We sold some of our most valuable possessions to the lowest bidder overseas, no one seems to have pride anymore in what we have, our cities, communties or nation as it seems, if you don't like the way things are ran you are a nutjob or extremist?

I will use a very simple example, my lawn, I take time and energy to make it appear nice look good clean cut and my best to keep it up, but what good does my nice yard do me when my neighbors don't seem to give 2 cents to theirs, tall grass, dead and overgrown? where is the pride in having nice things, we all could just live in a god forsaken desert and live in caves or homes held together with mud and spit, but yet we complain and don't take care of the nice things we have. It is far more important to spend time polishing the rims on your beater car that may have been bought while your collecting a welfare check than to get out and push a lawn mower?

Again I ask are we rome? destine to fall to our greed?

I welcome any and all contructive comments.
time enjoyed wasted is not wasted time
«1

Replies

  • kodiakzachkodiakzach Posts: 6,078 Admiral
    Reason # 1: Corruption

    One of the many similarities between Rome and the U.S. is "the debilitating effect of endemic bribery and corruption in public life". For a good look at this is in the contemporary American context, see the documentary Casino Jack and The United States of Money which is on Netflix Streaming. Here's a trailer for that film:

    Reason # 2: Inequality between rich and poor

    Another interesting thing to note is the glaring inequality between the rich and the poor. Current U.S. income inequality is now far greater than the levels in the Roman Empire. The top 1% in the U.S. control 40% of the wealth. At its peak, the top 1% in Rome controlled an estimated 16% of the wealth -- which was a source of frequent revolts from the Pleb's (middle class).

    http://persquaremile.com/2011/12/16/income-inequality-in-the-roman-empire/

    Reason # 3: Immigration (Tater' shout out!)

    Rome found itself increasingly using “illegal immigrants” from outside their nation to do the agricultural work that Romans would not do. ”Roman government allowed uncontrolled hostile immigration to dissolve the fabric of their civilization. Illegal and legal Immigrants grew more powerful while exercising their own character of their cultures. They did not adopt Roman ways. Second, vast blocks of once Roman lands became foreign held and even the Roman population, once outnumbered, was no match for hostile immigrants.” Reference: “The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and Barbarians,” by Peter Heather. Uncounted millions of immigrants in the U.S. cannot and do not speak English. Millions work under the table without paying taxes. Millions use our hospitals without paying. They immigrate but do not assimilate. They colonize in ethnic enclaves separated from Americans. They fracture our country. But the politicians DO NOT care because they simply view them as easily swayed votes for their campaigns.

    Reason # 4: Oppressive Taxation

    While the reasons for arriving at a need for heavy taxation are different between The Roman Empire and the U.S. -- the end result is the same. Not enough revenues coupled with uncontrolled government spending can only mean one way out: Raise Taxes.

    The Romans had their "revenue" generated from empire expansion and they filled the coffers with plunder from their conquests. When they reached the feasible limits of their imperial expansion, new "revenue" quit flowing in and they were inevitably forced to raise taxes to fund their ongoing projects. Like the U.S., they certainly didnt want to do anything rash, like curbing their spending.

    The U.S. has their tax revenue dwindling for different reasons. 47% of the Country are effectively tax exempt, and the huge influx of illegal immigrants are working under the table. The only logical conclusion (since they refuse to curb spending), is to throw down higher taxation on those who are still working and paying taxes (middle class, and the upper class). Since the upper class in the U.S. own the politicians, guess who will end up bearing the brunt of the needed taxation? The middle class. This is coming down the pipes as we speak, and being argued about in Washington as I write this.

    Reason # 5: Redistribution of Wealth aka, buying the welfare vote

    This is closely related to reasons 3 and 4 listed above.

    Rome's politicians pioneered the welfare system as a means to win votes from the poor by giving out free food and entertainment as a quick and effective way to rise to power. The Roman practice of providing free wheat to Roman citizens as well as costly circus games and other forms of entertainment as a means of gaining political power through populism, is a perfect parallel to how America in this post modern age is succumbing to the same distractions while ignoring the crumbling infrastructure of abandoned principles.

    Like the Romans, the spending of public money for free “bread and circuses” for the populace, the concept of “redistribution of wealth,” taxing those who have and giving to those who have not, has become part of the American way of life. One only needs to look as far as Obama's two most recent elections to see this in action. The result has been an excessive burden of taxation on the middle, working class of Americans.
  • Bruce LBBruce LB Posts: 3,604 Captain
    When you have a majority of the population realize that they can vote to take away the money that hard earned people have worked for instead of working for themselves we are starting to circle the drain.
  • PhishbohnPhishbohn Posts: 2,978 Captain
    http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson.
  • FluffyFluffy Posts: 1,762 Captain
    What Bruce said.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rrbgttrrbgtt Posts: 6,758 Admiral
    If only I had taken better care of my lawn....:banghead
    From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. Ye damned bobcat!
  • MenziesMenzies Posts: 19,289 AG
    Poppycock.

    We are coming out of a dip and on the upswing. Once consumer confidence get's cracking again we wil be off and running and most of this negativity will be forgotten.

    Let her ride!!
    Maybe if we tell people that the brain is an App, they will start using it.
  • jad1097jad1097 Posts: 9,610 Admiral
    Yes, we are headed toward collapse.
    Bruce LB wrote: »
    When you have a majority of the population realize that they can vote to take away the money that hard earned people have worked for instead of working for themselves we are starting to circle the drain.

    There is a heck of a lot more to it than that. Believing that is what will destroy our country is a copout :p
  • Bruce LBBruce LB Posts: 3,604 Captain
    jad1097 wrote: »
    Yes, we are headed toward collapse.



    There is a heck of a lot more to it than that. Believing that is what will destroy our country is a copout :p
    I know there is a lot more than that, but when you have the democratic party reelected based on a platform of making wealthy people pay more than you, than thats what is happening. It's not about saving money, it's not about spending less, it's about "hey look at Bob, he makes to much money. He needs to pay his fair share".
  • hooknlinehooknline Posts: 5,324 Admiral
    The moral threads that hold this country together are ripped and torn. And when that happens the rest of the aspects of society follow suit leading to the downfall. We are well along the way
    If I say something that offends you, please let me know so I can say it again later

    1322773200_30_1_USD_3.50_default.png
  • rrbgttrrbgtt Posts: 6,758 Admiral
    We went from a nation of producers, to a nation that exploits producers.
    From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. Ye damned bobcat!
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    we are way over extended overseas and at home
    hopefully we'll scale back our overseas holdings and put time limits on domestic paychecks, especially on our congress folks
    but it is our empire building that most jeopardizes our future
    No political signature
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    I'm a history buff and I thought it would take some time. But influx of immigrants to do labor, increased and acceptance of the gay lifestyle, corruption, DEBT, and soft lifestyle of the citizens are all signs of a collapsing empire.. In the words of Vernon Wormer "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." That's us as a nation. Even Frank Herbert warned about this in his sifi series Dune.:USA
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • hooknlinehooknline Posts: 5,324 Admiral
    "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero , 55 BC
    If I say something that offends you, please let me know so I can say it again later

    1322773200_30_1_USD_3.50_default.png
  • MenziesMenzies Posts: 19,289 AG
    So which country are you all going to move to?
    Maybe if we tell people that the brain is an App, they will start using it.
  • rrbgttrrbgtt Posts: 6,758 Admiral
    Menzies wrote: »
    So which country are you all going to move to?

    I'm stayin' here. It'll correct itself, eventually
    From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. Ye damned bobcat!
  • Bruce LBBruce LB Posts: 3,604 Captain
    rrbgtt wrote: »
    I'm stayin' here. It'll correct itself, eventually
    This
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,678 AG
    hooknline wrote: »
    The moral threads that hold this country together are ripped and torn. And when that happens the rest of the aspects of society follow suit leading to the downfall. We are well along the way

    That's what many people said about Elvis Presley. Thankfully, we made through.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,678 AG
    rrbgtt wrote: »
    We went from a nation of producers, to a nation that exploits producers.


    Personally, I believe you are smarter than that.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • hooknlinehooknline Posts: 5,324 Admiral
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    That's what many people said about Elvis Presley. Thankfully, we made through.

    Yep. Things have gotten so much better since he died huh
    If I say something that offends you, please let me know so I can say it again later

    1322773200_30_1_USD_3.50_default.png
  • gandrfabgandrfab Posts: 20,388 AG
    .
    :BUNNY gestapo

  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 19,387 AG
    Menzies wrote: »
    So which country are you all going to move to?

    How is that even remotely relevant?
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    Menzies wrote: »
    So which country are you all going to move to?

    There will be no need to move....(beside this is a global issue and there are few places that are unscathed).
    We will see a smaller government, less welfare, and fewer and less interventions in other countires.

    It is going to happen...

    The question is:
    Will it be of our own choice as to when and how.....or...will we continue on this path until the unsustainability of it; makes the choice for us....
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    Yes.

    My vision of America long after I'm gone is one big "Pottersville". Corporations already own most of our agricultural land, and in 50 years I think they'll own most of our housing. There will be no middle class. 95% of Americans will be poor, relying totally on the corporation for which they work, and 5% of Americans will be the ruling elite.

    I honestly believe that. Is that jaded enough for you?
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    There will be no need to move....(beside this is a global issue and there are few places that are unscathed).
    We will see a smaller government, less welfare, and fewer and less interventions in other countires.

    It is going to happen...

    The question is:
    Will it be of our own choice as to when and how.....or...will we continue on this path until the unsustainability of it; makes the choice for us....

    I'm not so sure. The SW and so cal may go their own way as well as the NE and industrial midwest. The farm states and middle states could go their own way but the demographics of the south east could lead to conflict. Ga and SC, Al and MS have large populations of color concentrated in certain areas, both metro and rural and Fl has 3-5 different demographics, blacks, spanish, Yankees, southerners and natives. And rural vs metro. I don't see much togetherness here in the sunshine state.
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • irishff727irishff727 Posts: 948 Officer
    rrbgtt wrote: »
    If only I had taken better care of my lawn....:banghead

    Lmao exactly your one of those guys aren't you.

    really? really?
    time enjoyed wasted is not wasted time
  • irishff727irishff727 Posts: 948 Officer
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    Yes.

    My vision of America long after I'm gone is one big "Pottersville". Corporations already own most of our agricultural land, and in 50 years I think they'll own most of our housing. There will be no middle class. 95% of Americans will be poor, relying totally on the corporation for which they work, and 5% of Americans will be the ruling elite.

    I honestly believe that. Is that jaded enough for you?

    No not jaded just your honest opinion. I feel that we just bring ourselves down by the way we do business, it use to be a man's word and handshake was all your ever needed to get something done, and now u get his word you get his handshake and he then sends it over seas.

    really? really?
    time enjoyed wasted is not wasted time
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,678 AG
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    Yes.

    My vision of America long after I'm gone is one big "Pottersville". Corporations already own most of our agricultural land, and in 50 years I think they'll own most of our housing. There will be no middle class. 95% of Americans will be poor, relying totally on the corporation for which they work, and 5% of Americans will be the ruling elite.

    I honestly believe that. Is that jaded enough for you?

    That is probably the closest vision to what I see happening. We are all being pushed into lower wages and less control of our futures by corporatism and until the majority realize this we will continue on the current path.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • BudaBuda Posts: 2,062 Captain
    irishff727 wrote: »
    I like to consider myself a history fan, and it appears to me that the US has taken the path of other powerful nations in the past, Rome, Japan even going as far back as ghangis khan. It seems that whenever a "group" obtains to much power, grows to big or tries to extend it self to far they colapse. Now I could be looking at this from the wrong angle completely but it seems to be a trend in history. Rome grew so big that it destroyed it self, when they enpowered one man to rule and control and he never gave power back to the people, even the Us was apart of this when we sought freedom from the english and the "Church". The morales and beliefs that our founding fathers had are long gone and we look at what once believed to be a very stable and great nation seems to be falling apart, people scream the gov has to much control, big brother. again I will admit that my view point could be wrong. but it is just what i see.

    So has america become the next rome? are we going to cause our own demise by extending ourselves so much that there is no coming back? Or is this just the way that things are, living in fear of a economic collapse? Does it really matter anymore if we are dems or repubs? libs or conserv? We sold some of our most valuable possessions to the lowest bidder overseas, no one seems to have pride anymore in what we have, our cities, communties or nation as it seems, if you don't like the way things are ran you are a nutjob or extremist?

    I will use a very simple example, my lawn, I take time and energy to make it appear nice look good clean cut and my best to keep it up, but what good does my nice yard do me when my neighbors don't seem to give 2 cents to theirs, tall grass, dead and overgrown? where is the pride in having nice things, we all could just live in a god forsaken desert and live in caves or homes held together with mud and spit, but yet we complain and don't take care of the nice things we have. It is far more important to spend time polishing the rims on your beater car that may have been bought while your collecting a welfare check than to get out and push a lawn mower?

    Again I ask are we rome? destine to fall to our greed?

    I welcome any and all contructive comments.

    My feeling is that until we quit being concerned about our neighbor's lawn and develop a sincere concern for the well being of our neighbor, we will continue on a road to nowhere.

    Bud A
  • Gary MGary M Posts: 13,181 AG
    Menzies wrote: »
    Poppycock.

    We are coming out of a dip and on the upswing. Once consumer confidence get's cracking again we wil be off and running and most of this negativity will be forgotten.

    Let her ride!!

    So, that's your view from where you see it? Typical......

    obama%2Bhead%2Bup%2Bass%2Bobamanomics.jpg

    Wait until Obama really gets rolling in his second term. ObamaCare and it's trillions in new taxes will just be the start.

    obama-burns-constitution.jpg
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 19,387 AG
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    Yes.

    My vision of America long after I'm gone is one big "Pottersville". Corporations already own most of our agricultural land, and in 50 years I think they'll own most of our housing. There will be no middle class. 95% of Americans will be poor, relying totally on the corporation for which they work, and 5% of Americans will be the ruling elite.

    I honestly believe that. Is that jaded enough for you?

    If there is no middle class and 95% of Americans are poor, what would sustain this corporate america that you think will take over? These corporations and farms will be making and growing what to sell to whom?
Sign In or Register to comment.