why did the Government feel the need to kill the Children of Waco?

coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
was it to establish their dominance? get the heat off of Clinton for the Ron Brown disaster?
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  • History reveals that it was Vernon Howell's refusal to submit to a simple arrest warrant by barricading himself and 76 fundamentalist Christians inside a fortified compound for almost 2 months as he planned to fulfill an apocalyptic prophesy in a psychotic fantasy believing himself to be a biblical martyr developed from a vision he received while visiting Jerusalem , and often referred to as " Jerusalem Syndrome." He was in fact , mentally ill.

    Koresh had achieved leadership of his cult, in a gun fight incorporating the kind of weapons we are now discussing with its previous leadership.

    A history of mental illness and violence.

    Koresh and his followers died in a self- fulfilling prophesy of a violent sociopath.

    That tragedy is only similar to our discussion here, in that he himself was the mass murderer of those who he influenced as well as innocents given no choice, to die as religious martyrs in the self validation of his psychosis using the justice system to execute it.

    The defense to all this engages Howells religiosity, in that he was simply worshiping God as constitutionally provided. This reluctance to prosecute Christian religious fanaticism effectively enables madmen like Applewhite , Jones and Koresh, to commit mass murder of their willing victims and emotional hostages .

    To cloak that psychotic behavior by portraying it as "religious freedom" " right to privacy" 2nd amendment" rights or anything else than what it is is a disservice to those victims, their families and those Americans who morn their loss.
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  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    Gary did I ever tell you about my 2 ATF friends that knew David and visited him weekly? one of them came into Glades Gun Works during the 3rd week of the standoff, they called it "Murder" and the blamed the FBI and the hierarchy in the ATF
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  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,270 Admiral
    If you set your mind towards the attitude of servitude exhibited by the rest of the proletariat, then questions such as these won't enter your consciousness comrade.
  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,820 Captain
    Koresh was of the same mindset as Charles Manson and Jim Jones.
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    MACD wrote: »
    Koresh was of the same mindset as Charles Manson and Jim Jones.

    no he wasn't
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  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,820 Captain
    coldair wrote: »
    no he wasn't

    Sure he was .
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,270 Admiral
    MACD wrote: »
    Koresh was of the same mindset as Charles Manson and Jim Jones.

    You heard that on NBC? CBS? CNN?
  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,820 Captain
    You heard that on NBC? CBS? CNN?

    Thats all you got ?
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    coldair wrote: »
    was it to establish their dominance? get the heat off of Clinton for the Ron Brown disaster?

    The same reason we felt the need to bomb, burn and destroy drug compounds in Columbia in the 1980's and early 1990's....many mothers and kids wer caught in those crossfires...

    It happens....Waco was a tragedy and there was a failure to foresee all of the contengencies....it does not mean the Clinton or Reno started out with the goal of killing innocents....

    It is topics like these and bomb throwing form each side that has made our politics so polarized...
    The right is behind the wall on one side and the left on the other....problems is there are MOST OF US living in between ya'll's 2 wall getting caught with all the crapola you guys are spewing...
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  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    our government has a long history of abuse and even murder of peaceful law abiding citizens, the bonus army massacre, kent state, testing of nuclear weapons on unsuspecting soldiers. They have proved time and again that can not be trusted. to force citizens to be disarmed will only encourage the government to to more harmful things to our people
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  • SWFL_F1sh0nSWFL_F1sh0n Posts: 17,248 Officer
    coldair wrote: »
    was it to establish their dominance? get the heat off of Clinton for the Ron Brown disaster?

    Jesus, you truly are insane.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 25,733 AG
    coldair wrote: »
    no he wasn't

    read some of the stuff he wrote

    http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/text/religion/koresh/Koresh%20Seals

    He thought himself a ruler over his people and he had a covenant with god personally.

    http://wacocult.tripod.com/faith/letter414.txt

    Letters to the FBI, he worte as though he was God

    http://wacocult.tripod.com/faith/letter410.txt
    http://wacocult.tripod.com/faith/letter411.txt
    http://wacocult.tripod.com/faith/letter411b.txt

    I would say he was worse than either of the other two mentioned.

    The man was convinced of an end of world prophesy with himself as Jesus Christ. He used the ATF event and standoff as a catalyst to make his prophesy come true. the ATf and FBI used NO weapons on the final assault and the members all died in a fire created by themselves. Study what happened and quit believing the conspiracy BS.

    Mini Mart Magnate

  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,820 Captain
    coldair wrote: »
    our government has a long history of abuse and even murder of peaceful law abiding citizens, the bonus army massacre, kent state, testing of nuclear weapons on unsuspecting soldiers. They have proved time and again that can not be trusted. to force citizens to be disarmed will only encourage the government to to more harmful things to our people

    Get in your bunker quick before they take you to a FEMA concentration camp. Grab all your weapons and your loving mutt and barricade yourself in your bunker.

    That will teach the evil governmants.
  • GT FishGT Fish Posts: 9,448 Officer
    Coldy, I like you ,but Koresh was insane..
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  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,820 Captain
    cadman wrote: »
    The man was convinced of an end of world prophesy with himself as Jesus Christ.

    So did Charles Manson and Jim Jones.
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    [video=youtube_share;F4HChgWakdI]

    I saw the offical FBI tape and it mirrors what is happening in this video.

    my ATF buddies knew him and could have arrested him any morning at the coffee shop he had breakfast at. the BDs had a lisence to manufacture AR15s and were inspected on a routine basis
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  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    MACD wrote: »
    So did Charles Manson and Jim Jones.

    that could be anyone that reads the bible out loud
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  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.


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  • TriplecleanTripleclean Posts: 6,591 Officer
    I would say the fault lies with clinton and it was all Janet Renos game. Ugly women like her can be as bad as they look. I thought from the begining that the whole thing was out of control.... something like the move from 1980 TAPS.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one.


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  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,820 Captain
    coldair wrote: »
    that could be anyone that reads the bible out loud

    No.....only the self- fulfilling prophesy of a violent sociopath.

    I'm quite fond of the Bible, but I have no desire to make myself a cult leader by expressing myself as a Lord or God.
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    the worst part was when the parked the tank on top of the bunker with the women and children inside, trapping them so they could die from smoke inhalation
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  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    MACD wrote: »
    No.....only the self- fulfilling prophesy of a violent sociopath.

    I'm quite fond of the Bible, but I have no desire to make myself a cult leader by expressing myself as a Lord or God.

    I seriously doubt you are fond of the bible, judging by your words on here
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  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 25,733 AG
    coldair wrote: »
    [video=youtube_share;F4HChgWakdI]

    I saw the offical FBI tape and it mirrors what is happening in this video.

    my ATF buddies knew him and could have arrested him any morning at the coffee shop he had breakfast at. the BDs had a lisence to manufacture AR15s and were inspected on a routine basis

    You are either lying or your "ATF buddies" were fakes. The only ATF agent who had contact with Koresh was Robert Rodriguez who was in the compound undercover. ATF went in on February 28th to execute a search warrant (not arrest Koresh) for automatic weapons and explosive materials which they did not have a permit for. The Davidians shot at agents (it is not clear who may have fired first). In this initial shootout several Davidians and several agents were killed. Koresh was injured. The final assault, 50 days later, is when the Davidians set fire to the complex killing themselves. Koresh never left the compound during this period so I doubt your "friend" saw him at any coffee shop to arrest him.

    Koresh knew Rodriguez was an agent and allowed him to leave before the agents arrived with a search warrant. Koresh was warned the ATF was coming, Maybe your fiend was a member of Koresh's group and a spy for him? They blamed the leak on the press, but it could have been a rogue agent, which is what your friend sounds like.

    Mini Mart Magnate

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 25,733 AG
    coldair wrote: »
    the worst part was when the parked the tank on top of the bunker with the women and children inside, trapping them so they could die from smoke inhalation

    More BS with no factual basis except some conspiracy nutjob website.

    Mini Mart Magnate

  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,820 Captain
    coldair wrote: »
    I seriously doubt you are fond of the bible, judging by your words on here

    Ok , please explain scriptually where I'm wrong. I have a humble heart if I'm wrong.
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    cadman wrote: »
    You are either lying or your "ATF buddies" were fakes. The only ATF agent who had contact with Koresh was Robert Rodriguez who was in the compound undercover. ATF went in on February 28th to execute a search warrant (not arrest Koresh) for automatic weapons and explosive materials which they did not have a permit for. The Davidians shot at agents (it is not clear who may have fired first). In this initial shootout several Davidians and several agents were killed. Koresh was injured. The final assault, 50 days later, is when the Davidians set fire to the complex killing themselves. Koresh never left the compound during this period so I doubt your "friend" saw him at any coffee shop to arrest him.

    Koresh knew Rodriguez was an agent and allowed him to leave before the agents arrived with a search warrant. Koresh was warned the ATF was coming, Maybe your fiend was a member of Koresh's group and a spy for him? They blamed the leak on the press, but it could have been a rogue agent, which is what your friend sounds like.

    my friends had saved my life in 1979 when I almost entered a boob trapped apartment belonging to a drug dealer in Euless Texas. there was a sawed off 12 gage double barrel pointed at the door and rigged with fishing line to go off if I opened the door. I had fixed his ac 2 days before and he stopped to bull crap about guns and to thank me when he noticed scotch tape on the door jam. he knocked and announced his id, no answer so him and his partner poked around and saw the booby trap. they went in the back door and disarmed the trap, found some pot and other guns, called the local pd and turned it over to them after they took the weapons. i went home without a shotgun wound. we became close friends after that
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  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    MACD wrote: »
    Ok , please explain scriptually where I'm wrong. I have a humble heart if I'm wrong.

    one of the first things that comes to mind is how you always crap in someone thread when they lose a beloved dog, do you really think you are winning hearts when you do that?
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  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,820 Captain
    coldair wrote: »
    we became close friends after that

    Does your friend read your posts on this forum?
  • SWFL_F1sh0nSWFL_F1sh0n Posts: 17,248 Officer
    MACD wrote: »
    Does your friend read your posts on this forum?

    I bet coldie has a lot of ATF "friends". They raid him weekly!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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