Some Fl deer facts..

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Replies

  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    Chuck, thanks for disclosing the full facts for the future, but I gotta hold onto my convictions regardless of what's coming, even though I'm under no illusion what lays ahead. I guess I'll be fighting for the losing team, but I'll be right.... Besides, without any dissent who is to say more stringent crap won't be shoved down the way....

    Gottitch, 6 deer is great in a season, but in the near future you'll be taking 2 deer max, all seasons combined.... That's what lays in store for you. Tagging and bragging will manage the man, not the resource.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,848 Captain
    I killed three bucks last season and I don't recall doing any surveys. Should I report all the road kills up here too?
  • superfishsuperfish Posts: 112 Officer
    Big Mak wrote: »
    Chuck, thanks for disclosing the full facts for the future, but I gotta hold onto my convictions regardless of what's coming, even though I'm under no illusion what lays ahead. I guess I'll be fighting for the losing team, but I'll be right.... Besides, without any dissent who is to say more stringent crap won't be shoved down the way....

    Gottitch, 6 deer is great in a season, but in the near future you'll be taking 2 deer max, all seasons combined.... That's what lays in store for you.

    I personally feel it will be three in any combination ,but the herd would NOT be managed for US TO HUNT and could go very easily down to 1 deer in certain locals to feed the stray cats IMO
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    Exactly! Once a DMU is determined to hold x, only y amount of tags will be sold or doled and you won't likely be the proud recipient either...
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    never said they did not know how many , just said i dought they will right the amount they actually killed .

    And what makes everyone so sure Johnny
    Lawless won't pop a deer on opening day, shove a tag in his pocket, cut out some backstraps, and ziploc them out to hunt another day?
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    FWC will not be putting in such a restrictive annual bag limit. They will remain restrictive on public lands, but state wide limits on bucks will likely be on par with states such as Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana where the antlered harvest is 3 per year. Doe harvests will likely be more restrictive than other states because our fawning rates are the lowest in the southeast at an average of 1.2 fawns per doe.

    One positive aspect of annual bag limits could be the removal of many quota restrictions. Time will tell. I for one do not fear the reduced bag limits. If I can harvest 5-6 deer per year, I'm satisfied. That is right on par with what my family consumes annually.

    One thing I will push for in FL when bag limits do come is to not count quota hunt deer against the annual bag limit. Those areas are already being specifically managed and any hunter lucky enough to draw a tag should not be penalized for being so lucky. I would like to see any quota deer count as a bonus to the annual bag limits.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    Big Mak wrote: »
    And what makes everyone so sure Johnny
    Lawless won't pop a deer on opening day, shove a tag in his pocket, cut out some backstraps, and ziploc them out to hunt another day?

    Johnny Lawless will always be Johnny Lawless. He's popping deer out of season and fire hunting now. More laws never prevent lawless behavior. Just like gun control doesn't prevent gun crime. That's why it's a good thing most folks are law abiding. We're not trying to make it harder to hunt. We're trying to make hunting better and improve all aspects of deer management.

    Gene, we're never going to agree about it. But I hope we can continue to respect each other's opinions, regardless of the outcome in the future. I consider you a friend and I trust and value your opinion.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • kmf600kmf600 Posts: 188 Officer
    The tag system for gators seems to be working for that? I kill a gator, I tag it, then report it online within 24 hrs. Male/female, size and weight. It doesn't bother me at all to do that. I am lucky to kill two deer a year, (goose egg last year). Was only in the woods twice though, so I'll call that one my fault.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    Chuck, likewise. I don't like more red tape and I don't need to be managed. I also like what I have in Fl for deer hunting, and duck hunting. I just think that with every new piece of legislation, another chunk of what I love gets chiseled away. I'm all for comprehensive resource management but totally against losing a inch of what I have. You say state limits will be liberal? I disagree. I see deer hunting/management headed the way of the STA.... A way to lessen my time to be in the field hunting.
  • SWFL HunterSWFL Hunter Posts: 669 Officer
    huntmstr wrote: »
    One thing I will push for in FL when bag limits do come is to not count quota hunt deer against the annual bag limit. Those areas are already being specifically managed and any hunter lucky enough to draw a tag should not be penalized for being so lucky. I would like to see any quota deer count as a bonus to the annual bag limits.

    I agree, same with turkey season. Quota and Special Opp should not be included in counts towards bag limits.

    If a hunt allows 12 deer, it doesnt matter who harvested them. 12 deer is 12 deer.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    Good luck with that. That kind of separation will never be embraced. You'll be getting a bag limit and a tag limit, and that will be that. Your quota and special opps hunts WILL count against your bag n tag. To believe otherwise is, well, quite a fantasy. I just don't see FWC complicating themselves with that kind of headache.

    Chuck, you even said above that you can see possible elimination of quotas with seasonal limit of a tagging n bragging. If you think quotas can be eliminated, how can you in another breath believe you will convince anyone with the authority, or any of us, a quota kill shouldn't/won't count against your annual harvest? I just don't see it.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    Gene, there will always be quotas on some areas. Even states like Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky and Georgia have some quota hunt locations. In almost every instance, the quota hunt bag limits are not counted towards the state wide bag limits, but instead as bonus deer.

    When I hunted Kentucky on a regular basis (back when I had lots of money and only 1 kid) I always put in for the public land draws. When I got them, it was 2 more deer I could take in that season. FWC likes modeling after other states. It's not impossible to expect some copycat in that aspect too.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    Only time will tell. I just know that dead deer tell no tales and live deer tell you everything. What really matters in deer management is what's on the hoof, not in the cooler. I will also add that without exception, every piece of new legislation has incrementally stripped something away from hunting, fishing, and freedom in general in small stages. Without exception! Just ask the dog hunters. One day you're going to sit back and have to admit to yourself, and to those you're dealing with at the agencies, that you have nothing left to give up. That's the sad fact, and it's undeniably going to happen. Then we can all go home, sit on the couch, and talk about the good old days.

    I thank and admire you for putting in the time and work on this stuff, but I don't envy you. All I can ask of you is when you're getting pushed to accept certain things on the DMTAG and any other capacity you work in, that you push back. I sort of feel like you guys are the salesmen for the plan that is being crafted and soon to be force fed to us. You say you want to help shape the future. I can only hope that every one of you is in fact shaping, not just selling.

    Alex said earlier in another thread that nobody won at the MI meeting and he's right. Nothing was changed that night because the flak gauge was registering off the charts, and the same thing happened to the original plan to implement this tag n brag program. That alone should tell you all that the MAJORITY of Fl hunters are ok with the current system. Many guys I know are against this on this website but they are avoiding the controversy. That's just a little fyi, to the DMTAG.
  • james 14james 14 Posts: 2,875 Moderator
    I'm all about protecting the good things we have and not letting over-regulation ruin things but you can't argue with the fact that MANY other states with FAR greater deer populations have similar rules in place and the residents seem to be happy and no one is losing hunting rights. As I said before the FWC is the one we have to work with and if you can't trust them to make sound management decisions then you have bigger fish to fry than complaining on here about their deer management plan. The ideas being proposed are nothing new to most other hunters in this country so I really don't get all the conspiracy theories that this is some attempt to strip us of our ability to hunt. Take it at face value...more data = better game management = less hunter management = more hunting opportunities = more fun for us all.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    That's funny. I've hunted Iowa, Ill, WV, Al, SC, and Hawaii with regularity for deer and not one hunter I've ever met wouldn't kill to have a season with regulations like we have. Of course they realize Fl is no comparison to those states either so they know it would be foolish to compare... With the exception of SC...
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,985 AG
    Big Mak wrote: »
    That's funny. I've hunted Iowa, Ill, WV, Al, SC, and Hawaii with regularity for deer and not one hunter I've ever met wouldn't kill to have a season with regulations like we have. ...

    Of course they would....they know just how stupid our regs are....Can you say FREE-FOR-ALL
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    You got it James. No one is taking away access or rights. We're making the management of GAME better. Not the management of hunters.

    As for whether we are salesmen or advocates, I wish you would come to one meeting and sit in on the arguing that goes on. We all leave the meetings as friends, but there isn't a single meeting I can recall when voices don't get raised, Cory doesn't get hit from all sides on the issues we're discussing, and we're not all pushing back. Believe me, if what we argue over caused physical abuse, Cory would look like Rodney King at the end of each meeting. Every member of the DMTAG, to a man (or woman) has their share of cross words with the FWC staff and fights very hard to keep the discussion about managing the resource and not the hunters.

    That said, if we come across as salesmen, it's only because we believe in what we are doing and the agendas we are promoting are our own.

    I went kicking & screaming into the quota hunt changes. I was sure there was going to be lost revenue, massive problems and all sorts of unfairness and backlash. I was wrong in some respects and right in some others. But at the end of the day, the changes were needed and are working better than expected. There is fairness in the system. With the coming changes and tweaks on the horizon, it will be refined even more to the satisfaction of most and the betterment of all. I admit when I'm wrong. I hope you nay sayers can when you're proven wrong too.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    That's all I'm asking for Chuck. I'm sure you do push back, but there are others that feebly take what they are offered sometimes and you and I both know who they are.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,985 AG
    james 14 wrote: »
    The ideas being proposed are nothing new to most other hunters in this country so I really don't get all the conspiracy theories that this is some attempt to strip us of our ability to hunt. Take it at face value...more data = better game management = less hunter management = more hunting opportunities = more fun for us all.

    This is no different than all the hoopla when they changed the system to "non-transferable" so that you don't have someone walking around with 30 hunts....some from his old auntie or his neighbor who allowed him to put in for a hunt in his name and all the other BS that went on.....
    Remember how we heard of "the downfall of hunting" predictions....mass exodus to other states... yada yada yada...

    Someday, they will implement a tag and report system like everywhere else...FWC folded to pressure...but eventually...they'll man up and do whats right.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    Big Mak wrote: »
    That's all I'm asking for Chuck. I'm sure you do push back, but there are others that feebly take what they are offered sometimes and you and I both know who they are.

    That's true in many aspects of the state. But when it comes to the DMTAG, it couldn't be further from the truth. I've yet to see anyone lay down & take it in this group. I wish the members of the DMTAG were the same people on the BBAG with me instead of all the greenies. We'd have some real bear management in no time.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,939 Admiral
    Free for all or Freedom Jr...i know you like rules,and regulations,it makes ur thing hard and you can't stand the fact we have freedom here and we've been successfully non managing it for many yrs now,with great success.Facts don't lie.

    Something other states may be looking at? When their staffs and budgets get cut...you wanna see a free for all, bring your lil butt up to Wi gun opener and i'll show you a free for all.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,710 Captain
    Here is Flo-ridas first flag Joe. Thought a freedom hating New York transplant like you might get a chuckle outta this....
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,985 AG
    Not really sure what a tagging sytem has to do with "freedom"......but when people want to make a 'change" to the status quo...those without the intelligence to see why are always first to run around banging a drum. You also have the paranoid type hopping on the "crazy train" too.....:rotflmao
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,848 Captain
    Could really care less if we get tags or not,I just don't see how some think Fl has problems with deer herds. I always kill a few bucks every season and let many others walk. The populations are off the hook everywhere I hunt.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,811 Captain
    So you mean to tell me all this data came from a survey and it's guesswork?

    Then why would the spend more of our State money hiring a survey company to do more surveys?

    Because your wrong. Survey work is not guess work. Its taking a sample of something to learn what the big picture is. They hired a vendor because it would do what they need done for less than they could do it themselves and because they could do it better. The new survey is being done on a different scale with different questions and uses a different outreach. Brick wall..........
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,811 Captain
    Big Mak wrote: »
    Only time will tell. I just know that dead deer tell no tales and live deer tell you everything. What really matters in deer management is what's on the hoof, not in the cooler.

    Actually, you can learn alot from a dead deer. You just have to ask the questions. How much do you weigh, what are your antler dimensions, do you have milk, do you have a fetus, if so how long is it, do you have liver flukes, etc. All of the answers to those questions help you gain insight into the condition of the deer and, if you do it on enough harvested deer in an area, into the condition of the herd and how it relates to the habitat's ability to support it in good health. Try asking any of those questions to a live deer and tell me what you come up with.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,811 Captain
    james 14 wrote: »
    I'm all about protecting the good things we have and not letting over-regulation ruin things but you can't argue with the fact that MANY other states with FAR greater deer populations have similar rules in place and the residents seem to be happy and no one is losing hunting rights. As I said before the FWC is the one we have to work with and if you can't trust them to make sound management decisions then you have bigger fish to fry than complaining on here about their deer management plan. The ideas being proposed are nothing new to most other hunters in this country so I really don't get all the conspiracy theories that this is some attempt to strip us of our ability to hunt. Take it at face value...more data = better game management = less hunter management = more hunting opportunities = more fun for us all.

    Thanks. You said very well what I have been thinking as I read some of the posts here. I grew up with tags and can tell you that it didnt hurt me one bit. It actually helped manage a resource that I have a vested interest in.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,811 Captain
    we've been successfully non managing it for many yrs now,with great success.

    I see you're trying to break into the comedy field. Most of what you say is just to stir the pot, I know, but that was funny right there!!!!
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,939 Admiral
    funny but pretty much true...
  • james 14james 14 Posts: 2,875 Moderator
    Skunk Ape wrote: »
    Could really care less if we get tags or not,I just don't see how some think Fl has problems with deer herds. I always kill a few bucks every season and let many others walk. The populations are off the hook everywhere I hunt.

    I don't see a big problem where I hunt either. The problem for me is that I spend SEVERAL hours on the road just to get there and $$$ in gas. Hunter management has created a system where I can't access the lands that are close to home and the few that I CAN access are overpressured. This doesn't have to be the case and the only way to fix it is with better GAME management. We have areas that are under-utilized and areas that are over-utilized. Sadly, most people are funnelled onto the over-utilized areas if they want to spend any reasonable amount of time in the woods.
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