PTTS teams breaking the law?

I know at least one of these captains is a active member on this site, so maybe he can explain. I find this interesting though.

http://savethetarpon.com/sponsors-is-your-ptts-team-obeying-the-law-heres-one-that-didnt-even-try/
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Replies

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 11,367 AG
    That is very interesting. I've posted a few times that someone needs to audit FWC records with respect to the tag. Rumors of re-using tags and not turning in the form have been circulating for some time now. I suspect the Miller's Ale House team is not alone in this regard.
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    Mike,
    I would have to agree. Guess we are about to find out.


    I read somehwere that there was going to be a flood of "thugs" storming the West Palm FWC commision meeting tonight. Some people have wild imaginations.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Just another example why they should shut down the PTTS
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    Why is it interesting????? Seems pretty peaty to me. Are we gonna now start posting idle zone infractions? I didn't realize we were all so high and mighty. Seems like an honest mistake.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Why is it interesting????? Seems pretty peaty to me. Are we gonna now start posting idle zone infractions? I didn't realize we were all so high and mighty. Seems like an honest mistake.

    An honest mistake is forgetting it once. Not doing it at all is blatant disregard for the law
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    I can't answere for Artie. But what's the difference when a boat blows a manatee zone? Isn't that total disregard for law. Im a lot of people on this forum have been stopped for that.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    I can't answere for Artie. But what's the difference when a boat blows a manatee zone? Isn't that total disregard for law. Im a lot of people on this forum have been stopped for that.

    If they do it over and over again they should be held accountable. If it was the first time it happened, then a warning would be sufficent.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • CaptainBlyCaptainBly Posts: 1,967 Captain
    Was the tag used and not reused but the paperwork was not filed? Not that that is acceptable but if the tag is not being reused and therefore avoiding the $50 fee, then I would think that is a lesser infraction personally than not filing the paperwork. Granted, both should be done. But to me, the reuse of a tag is more egregious than not filing paperwork. But that is just me.
    In Loving Memory of James Zielske, January 19, 1957-July 5, 2013
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    Why is it interesting????? Seems pretty peaty to me. Are we gonna now start posting idle zone infractions? I didn't realize we were all so high and mighty. Seems like an honest mistake.

    I think a better comparison would be a fishing guide running charters without a fishing license. When you have sponsors, have won 300k in this tournament, and fish a tournament called the "professional" tarpon tournament series, I think your status as a recreational or amateur angler is gone. I don't see how failing to complete the required paperwork for a tag you need to have to do your job can be associated with running a slow speed zone.
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    The weigh boat takes your tag after fished is weighed. Your the suppose to fill out and mail in card.
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    I should refase that. Kathy takes your tag. You can hand her your card or mail it in. Guys I know there is a lot of things not to like about PTTs and the jig fleet. I get it. This was probably my last year fishing it. But trying to smear some bodies name in mud to try and show how much greater then though is, is not the right way to go about it.
  • Capt. Scott HughesCapt. Scott Hughes Posts: 317 Officer
    I agree with Ozzie. That is pretty "ticky tack" or petty. A better question is: why don't the guys tarpon that are landed with jigs that have broken away from the hooks be disqualified or given a ticket?

    This question might just lead to the second cat that needs to be corraled.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 11,367 AG
    The weigh boat takes your tag after fished is weighed.
    I should re[phr]ase that. Kathy takes your tag.

    Ozzie, Do you know when this practice started? It was my understanding it was a relatively recent change, but that's 3rd hand info. Thanks...Mike

    p.s. I agree, it's a ticky-tacky issue that the BGFGA/STT is making into something larger than it probably really is, but that doesn't change the veracity (or not) of the allegations.
  • CF47CF47 Posts: 107 Officer
    Possibly because the law prohibits rigging to INTENTIONALLY break away. That's hard to prove if the jig has already broken away. Here's an idea: Since the jig was initially rigged with the hook on top to allow for breakaway rigging, and since breakaway rigging is now illegal, there is no need to rig the jig with the hook on top. It should be fairly easy to design a jig mold with a circle hook coming out the back onto which the plastic tail could be threaded (you know, like on a real jig). If you're not snagging fish, there should be no need to lead with the hook.
  • Capt. Ozzie FCapt. Ozzie F Posts: 57 Deckhand
    They've taken our tags for about three years. Scott whats the difference if you add a split shot to your crab or threadfin. Or guys fishing crabs early in morning with 4oz of lead. It's a very tough law to navigate threw. I know you add split shots some times Scott. Those normally break away. Remember no break away gear. You'll never heard these cats Scott. Love the effort though. It's like talking politics. I for the life of me can never understand what people see in Obama. But some people love him. Thank God I fished today. I'm so sick of playing on computer.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    doubledup wrote: »
    I think a better comparison would be a fishing guide running charters without a fishing license.

    You do, huh?

    :grin

    At worst, Chuck, it's an adminstrative infraction of a rule punishable by a strongly worded letter requesting it be returned. As was explained the FWC collects them. Either they do it by mail or by hand.

    Thuggery by practicing law, now, Chuck? Intimidation and strong arming sponsors not all that satisfying enough? Oh but wait, McLaughlin is sending that accustation to sponsors, so
    I guess it's the same thing.

    Jesu Cristo you guys are growing more pathetic in your desperation to do damage.

    Better lawyer up there, Chuck. These businesses don't like being accused of "lawbreaking"on the internet, you know.:nono
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    A boycott is a far cry from trying to strong arm or intimidate a sponsor. People have the right to either support ptts sponsors or to not. It's as simple as that Gary.

    I never accused any sponsor of breaking any laws. I started a thread asking if ptts anglers were breaking the law, hence the question mark.

    I appreciate your concern to "lawyer" up Gary. Wonder how the commission meeting went last night, I heard they closed snook season for another year. I'm sure we can agree that's a good thing.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    doubledup wrote: »
    A boycott is a far cry from trying to strong arm or intimidate a sponsor.

    Sorry I forgot, you practice law, now. Good luck with that. :thumbsup
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    Sorry I forgot, you practice law, now. Good luck with that. :thumbsup

    I'm as qualified as you are.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    Not really.

    Is it ok if I send this thread to one of the sposnors involved who you are not trying to intimidate and thinks he is?

    Ooops, too late.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    Not really.

    Is it ok if I send this thread to one of the sposnors involved who you are not trying to intimidate and thinks he is?

    Ooops, too late.

    Yes, really. And yes its ok. Thanks.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    You are welcome!
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    Let me know if they email you back. I wonder if they will find it odd that the person who sent them this thread is the only person who mentioned anything about a boycott. Or maybe they will read the link I posted to a website that I have no affiliation with, asking about a article which I did not author.

    Gary, hurry up, law and order is on the tv.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    Good luck with that!
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • AlwaysAbuAlwaysAbu Posts: 476 Deckhand
    If the cards are taken at the scale by someone involved with the PTTS or FWC as part of the tournament process, then the Capts should not be drug through the mud or inuendo of their intentional law violation.

    But the reality is even if it was taken by a PTTS representative, that does not waive the responsibility of the angler to return the card to the state. The angler is responsible for the harvest of that fish, possession has been transferred to him by the state via kill tag. In the PTTS rules it does indicate that teams are subject to a polygraph so if they wanted to see if tags were ever re-used they could investigate it.

    If it was handed to an FWC person at the scale, and it never gets recorded that's on the FWC. This is a unique circumstance virtually unlike any other type of fishing tournament in that there is a possible post tournament requirement for legal fishing compliance and yet tournament rules require complying with all laws.

    In 3 hour tournaments with $40K boats as a prizes, there are no minor violations. If I lost a set of tires from TiresPlus to a guy that didnt turn in his card I'd be pi$$ed. :grin
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    I'm lost. Good Luck with what?

    I'm just wondering why it took you so long to jump on this thread. I'm sure you read it over and over. I must say,im a little disappointed of your responce. I was expecting much better.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    You can expect a lot better.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • doubledupdoubledup Posts: 235 Officer
    You can expect a lot better.
    Atta boy, Gary. Way to step your game up. Quite frankly, I was starting to get bored with all theses jig/ptts threads. But since you are going to really start "bringing" it, I think ill continue to follow for awhile more. Tarpon fishing sux right now anyways.
  • Capt Dave MarkettCapt Dave Markett Posts: 26 Greenhorn
    DoubledUp Chuck, You missed an ugly zit on the sand gnats ***. It's right there on the Whack-A-Mole .......

    As to the "Tarpon Tag Harvest Report Form" of which you speak, the last statement on the card says, "THIS CARD MUST BE RETURNED BY JULY 31" ............ Of what year??

    Let's see, scenario one: Capt. DUC guided a team of women who caught and entered a tarpon in PTTS. At what point did Capt. DUC or those ladies LEGALLY "harvest" a tarpon that required a tarpon tag OR a TARPON TAG HARVEST REPORT FORM? Who "harvested" that tarpon? Please, Capt. DUC, quote statute or case law that defines "harvest" in this context and sets case law.

    The required standard of proof is "beyond any reasonable doubt". Every citizen's entitlemen is a jury of one's peers. Any proposed juror with a predetermination can be excused for cause.

    Let's look at a second scenario -- let's say an angler catches a tarpon and brings it boatside. A barbless release gaff is placed inside the lower jaw, the fish's head is left in the water and the fish is swimmed upright to the scale -- reasonable people could concur that the revival process started imediately when water was forced over the gills of the tarpon as it was moved forward. Reasonable people could conclude the angler fully intended to comply with PTTS rules which mandate every fish entered must be released alive, not HARVESTED. Reasonable people could conclude the entire process is part of a detemined effort to revive the fish.

    The live fish is placed in the wet weigh sling while it is under water and the angler steps back. Has that angler "harvested" that live fish? It's still alive, in the water and the angler has no link to the fish. The fish has a tag in its lower jaw and the clear intent of all involved is to immediately release the fish after a weigh process that takes about one minute start to finish. The live fish is returned to the water, the tag is clipped and the fish is swimmed away from the scale and is released alive. So, who "harvested" that live fish?? Reasonable people could conclude that nobody did.

    What prosecution witness will testify the person who bought a tarpon tag was provided a return post card? Exactly which state manager will testify the tag purchaser was intended / destined to suffer a misdemeanor charge for failing to return a postcard that you can't prove he or she ever recieved? Or that was filled in correctly, mailed and was never recieved?
  • whitebaconwhitebacon Posts: 354 Officer
    Dave Markett - why do you protest such a flawed, flammable, and unwinnable argument? I'm now getting involved. I’ve got pictures of you, Daylan, and customers fishing with >3 lines post law and you fishing from the Captain's chair. Don't make me post them.
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