LA and Snapper inconsistency with Feds

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Replies

  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Only ones I know that were eliminated from voting were the ones with very little or no landings.
    Other small independant owner/operators(five of them at our dock including Touch and Go) were able to participate.

    I'm sure thats true, but the fact is, nearly 600 fishermen were eliminates, leaving less that
    200 permit holders to determine the fate of all. It was a "weighted" vote. Small independant
    landings with less landings due to their small size were eliminated from participating. The vote
    was weighted along a landings history level that was determined by WHO? The landings
    history level was determined along a line that yeilded a predictable referundum outcome. A
    survey of those eliminated from participating in the referundum showed that the vote would
    have been against IFQ by a wide margin, had they been allowed to participate. Since these
    fishermen that were not eliminated from the fishery, but just the refurendum, it now has a
    20% minoroty of fishermen setting policy for the 80% not allowed to vote on their own fate.
    The "Pool" established for them to fight for scraps, or shell out money to the ones gifted
    shares has eliminated those struggling to survive before having their ability to speak about
    their resource taken away.

    I am neither a Commercial Fishermen, nor an active GOM fishermen....but the NMFS operates
    region (SA) as well, and the precident set in one region is likely to be seen in another if
    allowed to continue. I like many in our region have educated ourselves about what is
    taking place elsewhere to have a defense ready to face the attack likely heading our way.
    In our region Commercial and Recreational anglers are well united in our opposition to any
    privitization scheme, but then again in the GOM, it was not the Majority that got their way.
    With the CFA using EDF backing to bring Catch shares into Recreational fishing in the GOM,
    its only a matter of time before that push comes our way.

    NOAA funding for catch Shares, like the Gulf IFQ has been outrageous. NOAA's reallocating
    funds FROM fishery science and research TO catch Shares is disgusting. The states are
    being adversly affected from this lack of sound and serious fishery management on NOAA's part.
    Seeing states taking matters into their own hands may be the only thing that gets the NMFS's
    attention. The states loose money when NOAA fails to do there job in managing with science instead
    of policy, but NOAA's $$$$ keeps rolling in either way. The states are probably as tired of NOAA's
    shortsighted approach to fishery management as the majority of fishermen are. Its only when NOAA
    is willing to put funding prioroty on data collection before market based management that improvements
    will be seen, but then again, they have fought this all the way, so until a change in NOAA leadership occurs,
    its not likely. A State rebellion may be something that makes NOAA take notice however.
  • TrippleTailIVTrippleTailIV Posts: 197 Officer
    Thank you for the info. I appreciate it.
  • Capt BloodCapt Blood Posts: 184 Officer
    State rebellion? Like the special gag season on the Gulf coast? Now that's disgusting.

    IMO - folks promoting state's to give the Feds the finger, simply want to watch it all burn out of spite. Our state waters that are easiest for us to get too will get whacked in short order. No thank you, we've lost enough already...
    "...forced to become a pirate not for infamy and riches, but out of a rankling sense of injustice by the government leaders who have forsaken him..." -Rafael Sabatini-
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 Officer
    Capt Blood wrote: »

    IMO - folks promoting state's to give the Feds the finger, simply want to watch it all burn out of spite. Our state waters that are easiest for us to get too will get whacked in short order. No thank you, we've lost enough already...

    I don't understand . You seem upset that FWC " compromised " with the feds on the grouper consistency, but don't want to risk a federal moratorium, which they can't do?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Capt BloodCapt Blood Posts: 184 Officer
    Kinda right on the first part, not happy that the FWC changed course at the last minute for a carve out to folks close with certain commissioners. From what Iread, they had been at the table for awhile developing a season with the Feds and then suddenly....that reeks...you know what I mean?

    You're not comin in clear on that second part. If I'm gettin your drift - yes, the special season will cause our regular season to shorten - following that through on inconsistency just to finger the feds - that'll do the same thing, shorten the season. IMO - End game to that cycle is no fed season, we all fish in state waters, things get whacked hard.
    "...forced to become a pirate not for infamy and riches, but out of a rankling sense of injustice by the government leaders who have forsaken him..." -Rafael Sabatini-
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 Officer
    OK that makes sense. Sometimes I think acts of defiance of wrong things in hopes of change to right things are well worth the pain of enduring the continuance of pogressively oppressive wrong things. If the feds have their way, they will have their way with Florida fisheries,beyond defensible good science and public policies recognised by all and determined at the local level, where that expertise and vested interest resides.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Capt BloodCapt Blood Posts: 184 Officer
    I hear ya and normally would agree. I'm losing faith that FWC Commissioners have local expertise. It's what's chapping my hide so much with this special gag season bs. Looking at the agenda from last meeting it shows they got a staff briefing from their folks at the Research Institute the first day on how the state does the fish data.

    Then the next day they discard staff recommendation for a special gag season? Gotta call a spade a spade - FWC f'd this up and I'm not so sure anymore that these folks the Governor is appointing are serving for the right reasons. Newspaper mentioned the Senate gave the Gov the finger and didn't confirm many of his appointees, including 2 FWC Commissioners - one of which was behind this special gag thing. I'd start to get some faith back if the Gov dumped the guy.
    "...forced to become a pirate not for infamy and riches, but out of a rankling sense of injustice by the government leaders who have forsaken him..." -Rafael Sabatini-
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 Officer
    Well, that certainly is a spade.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,866 Admiral
    I'm sure thats true, but the fact is, nearly 600 fishermen were eliminates, leaving less that
    200 permit holders to determine the fate of all. It was a "weighted" vote. Small independant
    landings with less landings due to their small size were eliminated from participating. The vote
    was weighted along a landings history level that was determined by WHO? The landings
    history level was determined along a line that yeilded a predictable referundum outcome. A
    survey of those eliminated from participating in the referundum showed that the vote would
    have been against IFQ by a wide margin, had they been allowed to participate. Since these
    fishermen that were not eliminated from the fishery, but just the refurendum, it now has a
    20% minoroty of fishermen setting policy for the 80% not allowed to vote on their own fate.
    The "Pool" established for them to fight for scraps, or shell out money to the ones gifted
    shares has eliminated those struggling to survive before having their ability to speak about
    their resource taken away.

    I am neither a Commercial Fishermen, nor an active GOM fishermen....but the NMFS operates
    region (SA) as well, and the precident set in one region is likely to be seen in another if
    allowed to continue. I like many in our region have educated ourselves about what is
    taking place elsewhere to have a defense ready to face the attack likely heading our way.
    In our region Commercial and Recreational anglers are well united in our opposition to any
    privitization scheme, but then again in the GOM, it was not the Majority that got their way.
    With the CFA using EDF backing to bring Catch shares into Recreational fishing in the GOM,
    its only a matter of time before that push comes our way.

    NOAA funding for catch Shares, like the Gulf IFQ has been outrageous. NOAA's reallocating
    funds FROM fishery science and research TO catch Shares is disgusting. The states are
    being adversly affected from this lack of sound and serious fishery management on NOAA's part.
    Seeing states taking matters into their own hands may be the only thing that gets the NMFS's
    attention. The states loose money when NOAA fails to do there job in managing with science instead
    of policy, but NOAA's $$$$ keeps rolling in either way. The states are probably as tired of NOAA's
    shortsighted approach to fishery management as the majority of fishermen are. Its only when NOAA
    is willing to put funding prioroty on data collection before market based management that improvements
    will be seen, but then again, they have fought this all the way, so until a change in NOAA leadership occurs,
    its not likely. A State rebellion may be something that makes NOAA take notice however.
    Latent effort was going to be an issue no matter what, CS or no CS.

    The 1st plan includuing a buyout for longliners addressed latent effort by giving the permits with less than 5k lbs either a 200 or 400# trip limit(can't remember which) with no way to expand except to completley buy out a bigger operator. With fuel costs you can't operate on 200 or 400#'s per trip, therefore making those permits worthless.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Screen NameScreen Name Posts: 98 Deckhand
    OK that makes sense. Sometimes I think acts of defiance of wrong things in hopes of change to right things are well worth the pain of enduring the continuance of pogressively oppressive wrong things. If the feds have their way, they will have their way with Florida fisheries,beyond defensible good science and public policies recognised by all and determined at the local level, where that expertise and vested interest resides.

    The council rec'd tons of pubic input AND the state participated in developing the rebuilding plan. The many CCA members of the Gulf Council helped develop the plan.

    Then, "the boss" regime just kicked it to the curb and blames the council and NMFS for not picking a plan that makes each region happy?
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 Officer
    I have no idea what you are talking about, John.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
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